Low Mileage and Values
Discussion
cayman-black said:
Monkeylegend said:
SSO said:
a 14k mile Ferrari 288 GTO that sold for about $700k less
Personally don't understand why people buy cars to just keep them in hermatically sealed garages from which they never emerge.
There are 700k reasons right there.Personally don't understand why people buy cars to just keep them in hermatically sealed garages from which they never emerge.
There is another thread running at the moment about an elderly gentleman whom still drives his F40 'all the time', however when you read the article, between MOT's for the last 10 yrs it has only done a few hundred miles.
Nice feature but total click bait; i hoped it was a proper used F40, but it was just another collector concerned about miles damaging its value.
10 years ago he most likely paid £175k and worth maybe £900k now...he could put 50k miles on that and still run a 200% profit.
Me, personally, i use my 'supercar' almost everyday in whatever weather it happens to be on that day, purely because I am in the very fortunate position of having one, and I sure as hell am not squandering the opportunity life threw at me worrying about the value when there is serious enjoyment to be had.
Everyone is different though.
As has been said above there are 2 types of 'rare car' buyer. First is the investor who just wants to diversify their portfolio, cars are exempt from any form of tax on any increase in the UK as they are 'personal possession', as are wine & watches. So its easy to see why investors buy them. The rarer or lower mileage a car has the more desirable it is and therefore it has the most potential for growth. a £25M zero miles F1 or a £15M 20k miles F1? If they both double in value in 20 years the investor with the zero miles car will have made £20M more, tax free..!
Then there are the enthusiasts who want to drive their cars, for them any increase is a bonus but the primary intention is to drive them. I just bought a 20 year old 1 owner, 13k mile BMW E46 to use as my daily driver (I'm off new cars, all big, heavy & dull). I'm using it almost every day, putting on miles while being told it should be in a museum, it looks brand new! However I am getting such a kick out of driving a good as new 20 year old car its worth it. The opportunity of driving older 'as new' car are minimal and I can tell you its quite a thrill. Also I stand to lose nothing. If I drive 4k miles per year in 4 years time it will still be under 30k miles and probably the lowest mileage E46 available.
What I don't admire is those who buy as an investment and then pretend to use. Many have claimed this before on PH and been called out. I have no problem if someone says 'its an investment' that's fine, but I don't know why some people claim to drive their cars when they don't.
Then there are the enthusiasts who want to drive their cars, for them any increase is a bonus but the primary intention is to drive them. I just bought a 20 year old 1 owner, 13k mile BMW E46 to use as my daily driver (I'm off new cars, all big, heavy & dull). I'm using it almost every day, putting on miles while being told it should be in a museum, it looks brand new! However I am getting such a kick out of driving a good as new 20 year old car its worth it. The opportunity of driving older 'as new' car are minimal and I can tell you its quite a thrill. Also I stand to lose nothing. If I drive 4k miles per year in 4 years time it will still be under 30k miles and probably the lowest mileage E46 available.
What I don't admire is those who buy as an investment and then pretend to use. Many have claimed this before on PH and been called out. I have no problem if someone says 'its an investment' that's fine, but I don't know why some people claim to drive their cars when they don't.
Interesting topic. I think everyone has a mixture of different reasons for buying classic investment cars. I don’t think it is as straightforward as 3 or 4 categories?
I am a ‘tech investor’ by day, and I’m relatively new to the classic car / investment market, but I always try to keep latter as a hobby.
I have 2 classic cars, an 1986 911 3.2 Carrera, and a Ferrari Testarossa, and hopefully a mother new classic soon (Speciale). Both of my current classic cars are immaculate and I took my time finding right / clean cars.
I don’t know if it is an age thing (I’m in my late 30’s) but new cars simply don’t do it for me anymore (electric, turbos, etc...) and on the other hand I have a greater desire and appreciation for older cars, each day, which is a win win.
Here are my reasons and thought logic for buying and using investment cars... which are probably boring and useless to you all :-)
- The right classic car will appreciate, which merely means my hobby and passion is not losing money for me (i.e - it’s a bonus if they are worth more than what I paid for them, but not my core focus)
- I buy cars that I plan on keeping for life, which means I don’t need to worry so much about how much mileage I put on them (I don’t buy cars that I only plan on keeping for 2-3 years)
- ‘Tech’ investing delivers a better and faster return than ‘Car’ investing... buy cars as a hobby, and not as investment / business.
- I’m more worried about damaging a car from a 5,000 euro trip than the fact there will be 5,000 extra miles on the car
- I drive each of my cars at least once a week to keep them moving... getting all of the temperatures up and working the car through all of the gears (i don’t take them out if the roads are wet, as I don’t want salts and other chemicals sticking to the car)
- You only live once, so drive your cars... especially if you have been lucky enough to get the cars you’ve always dreamed of
I am a ‘tech investor’ by day, and I’m relatively new to the classic car / investment market, but I always try to keep latter as a hobby.
I have 2 classic cars, an 1986 911 3.2 Carrera, and a Ferrari Testarossa, and hopefully a mother new classic soon (Speciale). Both of my current classic cars are immaculate and I took my time finding right / clean cars.
I don’t know if it is an age thing (I’m in my late 30’s) but new cars simply don’t do it for me anymore (electric, turbos, etc...) and on the other hand I have a greater desire and appreciation for older cars, each day, which is a win win.
Here are my reasons and thought logic for buying and using investment cars... which are probably boring and useless to you all :-)
- The right classic car will appreciate, which merely means my hobby and passion is not losing money for me (i.e - it’s a bonus if they are worth more than what I paid for them, but not my core focus)
- I buy cars that I plan on keeping for life, which means I don’t need to worry so much about how much mileage I put on them (I don’t buy cars that I only plan on keeping for 2-3 years)
- ‘Tech’ investing delivers a better and faster return than ‘Car’ investing... buy cars as a hobby, and not as investment / business.
- I’m more worried about damaging a car from a 5,000 euro trip than the fact there will be 5,000 extra miles on the car
- I drive each of my cars at least once a week to keep them moving... getting all of the temperatures up and working the car through all of the gears (i don’t take them out if the roads are wet, as I don’t want salts and other chemicals sticking to the car)
- You only live once, so drive your cars... especially if you have been lucky enough to get the cars you’ve always dreamed of
oo7ml said:
Interesting topic. I think everyone has a mixture of different reasons for buying classic investment cars. I don’t think it is as straightforward as 3 or 4 categories?
I am a ‘tech investor’ by day, and I’m relatively new to the classic car / investment market, but I always try to keep latter as a hobby.
I have 2 classic cars, an 1986 911 3.2 Carrera, and a Ferrari Testarossa, and hopefully a mother new classic soon (Speciale). Both of my current classic cars are immaculate and I took my time finding right / clean cars.
I don’t know if it is an age thing (I’m in my late 30’s) but new cars simply don’t do it for me anymore (electric, turbos, etc...) and on the other hand I have a greater desire and appreciation for older cars, each day, which is a win win.
Here are my reasons and thought logic for buying and using investment cars... which are probably boring and useless to you all :-)
- The right classic car will appreciate, which merely means my hobby and passion is not losing money for me (i.e - it’s a bonus if they are worth more than what I paid for them, but not my core focus)
- I buy cars that I plan on keeping for life, which means I don’t need to worry so much about how much mileage I put on them (I don’t buy cars that I only plan on keeping for 2-3 years)
- ‘Tech’ investing delivers a better and faster return than ‘Car’ investing... buy cars as a hobby, and not as investment / business.
- I’m more worried about damaging a car from a 5,000 euro trip than the fact there will be 5,000 extra miles on the car
- I drive each of my cars at least once a week to keep them moving... getting all of the temperatures up and working the car through all of the gears (i don’t take them out if the roads are wet, as I don’t want salts and other chemicals sticking to the car)
- You only live once, so drive your cars... especially if you have been lucky enough to get the cars you’ve always dreamed of
Great post and I really admire your approach.I am a ‘tech investor’ by day, and I’m relatively new to the classic car / investment market, but I always try to keep latter as a hobby.
I have 2 classic cars, an 1986 911 3.2 Carrera, and a Ferrari Testarossa, and hopefully a mother new classic soon (Speciale). Both of my current classic cars are immaculate and I took my time finding right / clean cars.
I don’t know if it is an age thing (I’m in my late 30’s) but new cars simply don’t do it for me anymore (electric, turbos, etc...) and on the other hand I have a greater desire and appreciation for older cars, each day, which is a win win.
Here are my reasons and thought logic for buying and using investment cars... which are probably boring and useless to you all :-)
- The right classic car will appreciate, which merely means my hobby and passion is not losing money for me (i.e - it’s a bonus if they are worth more than what I paid for them, but not my core focus)
- I buy cars that I plan on keeping for life, which means I don’t need to worry so much about how much mileage I put on them (I don’t buy cars that I only plan on keeping for 2-3 years)
- ‘Tech’ investing delivers a better and faster return than ‘Car’ investing... buy cars as a hobby, and not as investment / business.
- I’m more worried about damaging a car from a 5,000 euro trip than the fact there will be 5,000 extra miles on the car
- I drive each of my cars at least once a week to keep them moving... getting all of the temperatures up and working the car through all of the gears (i don’t take them out if the roads are wet, as I don’t want salts and other chemicals sticking to the car)
- You only live once, so drive your cars... especially if you have been lucky enough to get the cars you’ve always dreamed of
Bispal said:
A £25M zero miles F1 or a £15M 20k miles F1? If they both double in value in 20 years the investor with the zero miles car will have made £20M more, tax free..!
You have made a wild assumption - that the investor with the zero miles car will actually wake up tomorrow morning... 
TheAnimal said:
Bispal said:
A £25M zero miles F1 or a £15M 20k miles F1? If they both double in value in 20 years the investor with the zero miles car will have made £20M more, tax free..!
You have made a wild assumption - that the investor with the zero miles car will actually wake up tomorrow morning... TheAnimal said:
Bispal said:
A £25M zero miles F1 or a £15M 20k miles F1? If they both double in value in 20 years the investor with the zero miles car will have made £20M more, tax free..!
You have made a wild assumption - that the investor with the zero miles car will actually wake up tomorrow morning... Bo_apex said:
SSO said:
ditchvisitor said:
Surely it’s car dependent though, Nick Masons 250GTO is hardly going to have its value effected by having loads of miles, it is after all a race car.
Since 250 GTOs dont have odometers.............24k miles in total, 1k miles in the last 6 years, I thought he used it more?
Edited by Bispal on Wednesday 28th October 13:44
Bispal said:
They don't but the mileage is still on his MOT certificates (Nick Manson's) Perhaps he installed one?
24k miles in total, 1k miles in the last 6 years, I thought he used it more?
I believe it mostly gets used on the race track these days. Getting insurance to drive it on the road, given the value, would be extremely expensive.24k miles in total, 1k miles in the last 6 years, I thought he used it more?
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