There is no car I want to buy next.
Discussion
[quote=Jumpingjackflash
I am looking for a car a manual car that sounds amazing, low mass, compact for Scottish roads, feels special even when sitting in traffic and will not fall apart around me.
Any suggestions? Why do car enthusiasts not have lots of options of these cars?
[/quote]
991.2 GT3...engine is an utter masterpiece, married with that manual gearbox it is a very special thing. Awesome car on the road. It's not low mass but then
nothing apart from the Alpine is but that has an ordinary drivetrain.
If you want low mass and something that feels alive on roads a 964 RS is a fabulous car. 1200kg, sounds fantastic, not as visceral as the 991.2 GT3 and most definitely won't fall apart on you. It's a car you can drive at 10/10th's on the road and that is ultimately what you want....cars are exciting to drive when you are stretching them.
I had requirements very similar to you but went even further back in the Porsche back catalogue than the 964 RS.
Another car is an E30 M3 ? Not especially quick by today's standards but it's a properly special car.
I don't think there is a modern car that suits your needs unless you want to fettle something yourself. Buy something strip the weight out and get it fettled a little. That would point towards Porsche though...as nobody else has made anything with a manual gearbox that would be worth doing that to.
I am looking for a car a manual car that sounds amazing, low mass, compact for Scottish roads, feels special even when sitting in traffic and will not fall apart around me.
Any suggestions? Why do car enthusiasts not have lots of options of these cars?
[/quote]
991.2 GT3...engine is an utter masterpiece, married with that manual gearbox it is a very special thing. Awesome car on the road. It's not low mass but then
nothing apart from the Alpine is but that has an ordinary drivetrain.
If you want low mass and something that feels alive on roads a 964 RS is a fabulous car. 1200kg, sounds fantastic, not as visceral as the 991.2 GT3 and most definitely won't fall apart on you. It's a car you can drive at 10/10th's on the road and that is ultimately what you want....cars are exciting to drive when you are stretching them.
I had requirements very similar to you but went even further back in the Porsche back catalogue than the 964 RS.
Another car is an E30 M3 ? Not especially quick by today's standards but it's a properly special car.
I don't think there is a modern car that suits your needs unless you want to fettle something yourself. Buy something strip the weight out and get it fettled a little. That would point towards Porsche though...as nobody else has made anything with a manual gearbox that would be worth doing that to.
If you want great steering and usable power how about:
- Alpine 110 or 110s (DC tranny though)
- GazooRacing GR Yaris (manual but has turbos)
As both cars are newer they've not really been optimised by the aftermarket yet so you could step by step tune them up with ECU remaps, geometry adjustments, wheel/tyre choices etc. to make them more personalised to what you are after
- Alpine 110 or 110s (DC tranny though)
- GazooRacing GR Yaris (manual but has turbos)
As both cars are newer they've not really been optimised by the aftermarket yet so you could step by step tune them up with ECU remaps, geometry adjustments, wheel/tyre choices etc. to make them more personalised to what you are after
Van Dessel said:
- Alpine 110 or 110s (DC tranny though)
Shoot I just re-read your post about the sewing machine engine...On the continent they did a manual Giulia Quadrifoglio with the 4-wheel drive...not a combo you can get in the UK. AWD doesn't do it for me b/c of the concomitant drivers aids it always comes with, and the weight..
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/model/elise-cup-25...
New.
Light.
Feels special.
Manual gearbox.
Quick enough (263 bhp/ton, 0-60 in 3.9s).
Not too wide for B-roads (1,719 mm).
Shouldn’t ‘fall apart around you’ but under warranty if it does.
A steal (from) £49,595.
I should be on commission.
Or get Singer or Alfaholics to build you a new classic.
New.
Light.
Feels special.
Manual gearbox.
Quick enough (263 bhp/ton, 0-60 in 3.9s).
Not too wide for B-roads (1,719 mm).
Shouldn’t ‘fall apart around you’ but under warranty if it does.
A steal (from) £49,595.
I should be on commission.
Or get Singer or Alfaholics to build you a new classic.
It's funny, because I just went through the same question.
I have compromised on a manual as I live in London and would prefer no clutch. I also needed rear seats due to young children.
I have made a heart decision and insead of a far better and easier to live with 991 or 997.2 Porsche 911, (engine not special enough at low revs, where I spend most of my miles in town), am in the process of buying a 2006/7 Maserati Gransport.
Worse objectively than the Granturismo that succeeded it, and indeed more expensive than the cheapest ones of those.
But smaller, lighter, prettier, rarer, more special and just a bit of an event. For not much money, too.
I could not find anything new up to 50k that fulfilled my brief, and wanted to celebrate the twilight of the ICE car with a Ferrari derived V8 in a car that feel special, and that if it explodes, I can afford to not care very much.
Different budget to you OP, as I am spending mid twenties to find a good example of my chosen steed, but I get your principles.
I have compromised on a manual as I live in London and would prefer no clutch. I also needed rear seats due to young children.
I have made a heart decision and insead of a far better and easier to live with 991 or 997.2 Porsche 911, (engine not special enough at low revs, where I spend most of my miles in town), am in the process of buying a 2006/7 Maserati Gransport.
Worse objectively than the Granturismo that succeeded it, and indeed more expensive than the cheapest ones of those.
But smaller, lighter, prettier, rarer, more special and just a bit of an event. For not much money, too.
I could not find anything new up to 50k that fulfilled my brief, and wanted to celebrate the twilight of the ICE car with a Ferrari derived V8 in a car that feel special, and that if it explodes, I can afford to not care very much.
Different budget to you OP, as I am spending mid twenties to find a good example of my chosen steed, but I get your principles.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 3rd February 08:47
MiseryStreak said:
https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/model/elise-cup-25...
New.
Light.
Feels special.
Manual gearbox.
Quick enough (263 bhp/ton, 0-60 in 3.9s).
Not too wide for B-roads (1,719 mm).
Shouldn’t ‘fall apart around you’ but under warranty if it does.
A steal (from) £49,595.
I should be on commission.
Or get Singer or Alfaholics to build you a new classic.
OP, I know you said you’d had an Elise that fell apart around you, but the new ones are pretty solid. A new Cup 250 or a nearly new one would be just fine. I bought a 2015 220 Cup a couple of years ago and driven it plenty. New.
Light.
Feels special.
Manual gearbox.
Quick enough (263 bhp/ton, 0-60 in 3.9s).
Not too wide for B-roads (1,719 mm).
Shouldn’t ‘fall apart around you’ but under warranty if it does.
A steal (from) £49,595.
I should be on commission.
Or get Singer or Alfaholics to build you a new classic.
No issues at all, solid as a rock. And perfectly sized and powered for the U.K. B roads. Only thing you’ll think about is the exhaust option and that’s cheap as chips.
F355GTS said:
I feel your pain with the 599, it's awesome but arguably flawed particularly useable power but then it's so special i really struggled selling my last one.
When I owned the 599s I also had a 328GTS, I used this for the backroad blasts, it's quick enough, looks fantastic, sounds great and they're surprisingly well built ????
Agree - I found the same with 599 and reluctantly sold it. Sourced a near perfect 928 that fits the bill and I can stretch it's legs, almost on a frequent basis.When I owned the 599s I also had a 328GTS, I used this for the backroad blasts, it's quick enough, looks fantastic, sounds great and they're surprisingly well built ????
We sometimes take the 308 to Spa and it doesn't miss a beat.
Agree that a 360 or earlier is more suited to the OP's desires.
Sounds like what you are looking for in a road car is pretty similar to me...There is only one car on the market today that (to me) ticks all the boxes for the type of car I want...
The Janarrelly Design 1
Petrol Ped's reaction in this video kinda sealed the deal for me....
https://youtu.be/-4aig68bfHw?t=596
The Janarrelly Design 1
Petrol Ped's reaction in this video kinda sealed the deal for me....
https://youtu.be/-4aig68bfHw?t=596
paulmnz said:
Sounds like what you are looking for in a road car is pretty similar to me...There is only one car on the market today that (to me) ticks all the boxes for the type of car I want...
The Janarrelly Design 1
Petrol Ped's reaction in this video kinda sealed the deal for me....
https://youtu.be/-4aig68bfHw?t=596
Good call, forgot about them, retro looks with that bomb proof V6 , They sound amazing on the video, The Janarrelly Design 1
Petrol Ped's reaction in this video kinda sealed the deal for me....
https://youtu.be/-4aig68bfHw?t=596
Would love to see one in the flesh just to see what the fit and finish is like for the money.
Edited by rat rod on Thursday 4th February 01:36
OP I read that as being a bit jaded, in which case I'd throw away the rulebook. My favourite cars aren't the super fancy ones, they're these:
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/bW4Fc4Zo[/url
]
Both are small, sure footed and incredibly visceral. Loads of fun, and they also sound great, to my ear.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/bW4Fc4Zo[/url]
Both are small, sure footed and incredibly visceral. Loads of fun, and they also sound great, to my ear.
I live up in Aberdeenshire and we have some fantastic roads. But usually quite small and bumpy.
I favourite car for these roads has been my 1999 Evo Vi as it just works so well.
Last year I really fancied a change and with a decent budget ( for me) i tried quite a few. Finally it cam to 2 the 570s or the 981 GT4
The Gt4 won hands down as the suspensions i sublime, the manual box is amazing , the engine really likes to rev, built to last. The size of the car is perfect for the roads I like. Has enough power and refinement on long runs too.
Only downside is the long gearing in 2nd and 3rd but there is enough torque to allow you to short shift or if the roads are quiet to go flat out Also the cup 2 tyres not great in cold or wet but will swap them to PS4s as they need to be changed this year due to age
Mclaren was was amazing looking, too much power, auto but it was very good but ultimately it was just too big for the roads I like .
This year it will be interesting to see how the Gt4 compares with the EVO on roads I know well
Just my 2p worth
I favourite car for these roads has been my 1999 Evo Vi as it just works so well.
Last year I really fancied a change and with a decent budget ( for me) i tried quite a few. Finally it cam to 2 the 570s or the 981 GT4
The Gt4 won hands down as the suspensions i sublime, the manual box is amazing , the engine really likes to rev, built to last. The size of the car is perfect for the roads I like. Has enough power and refinement on long runs too.
Only downside is the long gearing in 2nd and 3rd but there is enough torque to allow you to short shift or if the roads are quiet to go flat out Also the cup 2 tyres not great in cold or wet but will swap them to PS4s as they need to be changed this year due to age
Mclaren was was amazing looking, too much power, auto but it was very good but ultimately it was just too big for the roads I like .
This year it will be interesting to see how the Gt4 compares with the EVO on roads I know well
Just my 2p worth
456mgt said:
OP I read that as being a bit jaded, in which case I'd throw away the rulebook. My favourite cars aren't the super fancy ones, they're these:
[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/bW4Fc4Zo[/url
]
Both are small, sure footed and incredibly visceral. Loads of fun, and they also sound great, to my ear.
Would kill for both these cars ,not keen on the dropnose 911's preferring the standard front but i'm sure i could live with one[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/bW4Fc4Zo[/url]
Both are small, sure footed and incredibly visceral. Loads of fun, and they also sound great, to my ear.
On "Seen Through Glass" You Tube channel Sam has a very funny wealthy mate called Phil who has bought himself a genuine rally Stratos
amongst other cars he owns, like a DB4 GT family owned from new , Le Mans winning 50's Testarossa., Senna McLaren and a classic
rally 911 built by the Tuttle brothers, all these cars are on his channel, the Testarossa when he went to Monterey car week , no i'm not getting
paid by him, Worth watching the Stratos video just for the sounds alone
added to which Phil gets it by the scruff of the neck and drives it like he stole it.
( Sorry don't know how to link, any one)
Edited by rat rod on Thursday 4th February 11:18
OP I have also been through this many times. Also there are no new cars on sale that I desire. I recently sold My S5 daily driver as it was as dull as ditchwater and bought an E46 330i and 996 C2, both over 20 years in age and both so much better than any new car I have tried (including the GR Yaris but I'm not opening that can of worms again).
I also had a 12C, which I adored, but was missing a manual box at lower speeds to give me some fun, like my NA MX5.
I tried almost every Porsche conceivable, 991.2 GT3 Manual, 991.2 Carrera T, GTS manual & PDK. GT3 too harsh, T & GTS 7 speed manual box I didn't like, not as good as the 6 speed and the PDK was almost too good and felt a bit dull. I had one for a weeks trial. In the end it was the 981 Spyder that got my attention, 6 speed manual, 1300 kilos, RWD, bucket seats, proper LSD etc.
However the day before I picked up the 981 Spyder I also picked up an Exige 430CUP. OMG (I know it does that) what a car, I mean its just everything a petrol head wants. Its really fast, sounds like Armageddon but with no fake farting or machine gunning, just proper mechanical engine noise, the handling is sublime and the track settings make it remarkable.
The 981 was sold after 15 months, don't get me wrong a great car and I would have another but I still have the Exige and its not going anywhere. Have had it 2 years now without a single fault and it still excites. If you want one hurry as production has ceased and they only built 30 RHD examples to date but I heard they have a few run-out specials. Depreciation is also minimal, almost zero.
There is a side story. I missed my 12C and wanted another McLaren so took the plunge and 12 months ago bought a 675LT. That is the most amazing car I have ever driven, what it can do is miraculus but its real USP is, despite the paddles, is it feels so analogue and connected, way more than any other paddle shift supercar have driven (and I have driven quite a few including most of the Italian ones). If your budget stretches to a 675LT or even a 600LT I would seriously consider as I am a manual diehard and still rate the LT cars very highly. remember there are good and bad manual boxes.
If it was only one car and you wanted to keep running costs under control you will not do better than an Exige. The 981 spyder GT4 are close but they feel like limo's after a drive in a 430. The Lotus is a car you have to drive, if you make a mistake you are punished, if you do something well you can feel it and are rewarded, The 981 is more consistent, it really flatters all drivers and you can get on top if it very quickly and for me that then becomes a bit monotonous. I am still enjoying the Exige as I am still learning about it and this is character and this is what enjoyment is.
I also had a 12C, which I adored, but was missing a manual box at lower speeds to give me some fun, like my NA MX5.
I tried almost every Porsche conceivable, 991.2 GT3 Manual, 991.2 Carrera T, GTS manual & PDK. GT3 too harsh, T & GTS 7 speed manual box I didn't like, not as good as the 6 speed and the PDK was almost too good and felt a bit dull. I had one for a weeks trial. In the end it was the 981 Spyder that got my attention, 6 speed manual, 1300 kilos, RWD, bucket seats, proper LSD etc.
However the day before I picked up the 981 Spyder I also picked up an Exige 430CUP. OMG (I know it does that) what a car, I mean its just everything a petrol head wants. Its really fast, sounds like Armageddon but with no fake farting or machine gunning, just proper mechanical engine noise, the handling is sublime and the track settings make it remarkable.
The 981 was sold after 15 months, don't get me wrong a great car and I would have another but I still have the Exige and its not going anywhere. Have had it 2 years now without a single fault and it still excites. If you want one hurry as production has ceased and they only built 30 RHD examples to date but I heard they have a few run-out specials. Depreciation is also minimal, almost zero.
There is a side story. I missed my 12C and wanted another McLaren so took the plunge and 12 months ago bought a 675LT. That is the most amazing car I have ever driven, what it can do is miraculus but its real USP is, despite the paddles, is it feels so analogue and connected, way more than any other paddle shift supercar have driven (and I have driven quite a few including most of the Italian ones). If your budget stretches to a 675LT or even a 600LT I would seriously consider as I am a manual diehard and still rate the LT cars very highly. remember there are good and bad manual boxes.
If it was only one car and you wanted to keep running costs under control you will not do better than an Exige. The 981 spyder GT4 are close but they feel like limo's after a drive in a 430. The Lotus is a car you have to drive, if you make a mistake you are punished, if you do something well you can feel it and are rewarded, The 981 is more consistent, it really flatters all drivers and you can get on top if it very quickly and for me that then becomes a bit monotonous. I am still enjoying the Exige as I am still learning about it and this is character and this is what enjoyment is.
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