360 v's Gallardo dilemma (again!)
Discussion
dealmaker said:
Weren't a lot of Gallardo's out together on the Audi A8 line in Germany? Thats not exactly exclusive.
Personally I'd buy ANY car if it was made on the Audi A8 production line - to my mind (and seconded by friends in the industry) it is by far an away the best automotive production line in the world. Audi A8 build quality is better than pretty much anything else out there.
We were referring to exclusivity, not quality. Again , two different things.
Talking of the A8, why does the S-class out sell it despite Mercedes (now) poor reputation for quality/reliability? There is a lot more to buying a car that goes on in peoples heads that cannot be measured with a spreadsheet and slide rule.
sjn2004 said:
SJN2004 said:
Weren't a lot of Gallardo's out together on the Audi A8 line in Germany? Thats not exactly exclusive.
Personally I'd buy ANY car if it was made on the Audi A8 production line - to my mind (and seconded by friends in the industry) it is by far an away the best automotive production line in the world. Audi A8 build quality is better than pretty much anything else out there.
We were referring to exclusivity, not quality. Again , two different things.
Talking of the A8, why does the S-class out sell it despite Mercedes (now) poor reputation for quality/reliability? There is a lot more to buying a car that goes on in peoples heads that cannot be measured with a spreadsheet and slide rule.
Agreed - but there is a parallel I guess - people buy 360's instead of Gallardo's for the same reason people buy S Classes over A8's - it's a brand identity/marketing led decision - ultimatley they buy the inferior car! - footballers/hairdressers/PR& Marketing types buy the Ferrari/Merc - those in the know buy Lambo/Audi !!
I think you will find that your tubi set up gains you more like 4 - 8 hp extra not 48....
Personally i think you shoudl stick with the 360 and upgrade a few bits and bobs. I was in the same boat with the 355 a while back adn upgraded the power handling and brakes and now have a perfect car (IMHO) as it sounds right goes better and handles like a dream...(oh and stops on a dime)....Thing is with a gallardo i think you will lose the sense of occasion....gallrdo is impressive in power i give you but I think the looks are too angular, the interior too dull, the noise too muted,adn why oh why oh why did they not have proper lambo doors !!!!!!!!
Yes a gallrdo will munch most things but then i say if you want to race spend a 100k on a skyline that will lunch everything on the road (including itself at some point) .... I think in this brakcet it is about finding the right balance...the gallardo comes tops in power but loses out in looks, sound and sense of occasion ..... depends what you want from a car i suppose....i want to open up the garage and feel my heart skip a beat and my stomach start to flutter before i ahve even turned the key....
Of course if money no object it has to be an F40 or Zonda F !!!!
Good luck anyway in your decisions but there are lots of things you can do to the 360, adn if you love it so much (which you obviously do) then price up the upgrades and then make a choice....
Personally i think you shoudl stick with the 360 and upgrade a few bits and bobs. I was in the same boat with the 355 a while back adn upgraded the power handling and brakes and now have a perfect car (IMHO) as it sounds right goes better and handles like a dream...(oh and stops on a dime)....Thing is with a gallardo i think you will lose the sense of occasion....gallrdo is impressive in power i give you but I think the looks are too angular, the interior too dull, the noise too muted,adn why oh why oh why did they not have proper lambo doors !!!!!!!!
Yes a gallrdo will munch most things but then i say if you want to race spend a 100k on a skyline that will lunch everything on the road (including itself at some point) .... I think in this brakcet it is about finding the right balance...the gallardo comes tops in power but loses out in looks, sound and sense of occasion ..... depends what you want from a car i suppose....i want to open up the garage and feel my heart skip a beat and my stomach start to flutter before i ahve even turned the key....
Of course if money no object it has to be an F40 or Zonda F !!!!
Good luck anyway in your decisions but there are lots of things you can do to the 360, adn if you love it so much (which you obviously do) then price up the upgrades and then make a choice....
Thats a very good point.
Actually Ferrari now can be compared to a designer brand similar to LV, B&O ect. They have sold out to commercialism
This does not mean that they make better cars in fact far from it - but they sell because well heeled individuals ( or those that borrow a lot!) aspire to this 'lifestyle choice' and the owners are very protective of the marque.
If another manufacturer - lambo for instance would have made the 360 it would have been derided by the critics.
Actually Ferrari now can be compared to a designer brand similar to LV, B&O ect. They have sold out to commercialism
This does not mean that they make better cars in fact far from it - but they sell because well heeled individuals ( or those that borrow a lot!) aspire to this 'lifestyle choice' and the owners are very protective of the marque.
If another manufacturer - lambo for instance would have made the 360 it would have been derided by the critics.
basher said:
I think you will find that your tubi set up gains you more like 4 - 8 hp extra not 48....
Personally i think you shoudl stick with the 360 and upgrade a few bits and bobs. I was in the same boat with the 355 a while back adn upgraded the power handling and brakes and now have a perfect car (IMHO) as it sounds right goes better and handles like a dream...(oh and stops on a dime)....Thing is with a gallardo i think you will lose the sense of occasion....gallrdo is impressive in power i give you but I think the looks are too angular, the interior too dull, the noise too muted,adn why oh why oh why did they not have proper lambo doors !!!!!!!!
Yes a gallrdo will munch most things but then i say if you want to race spend a 100k on a skyline that will lunch everything on the road (including itself at some point) .... I think in this brakcet it is about finding the right balance...the gallardo comes tops in power but loses out in looks, sound and sense of occasion ..... depends what you want from a car i suppose....i want to open up the garage and feel my heart skip a beat and my stomach start to flutter before i ahve even turned the key....
Of course if money no object it has to be an F40 or Zonda F !!!!
Good luck anyway in your decisions but there are lots of things you can do to the 360, adn if you love it so much (which you obviously do) then price up the upgrades and then make a choice....
well firstly after a 355 the gallardo truly is a supercar, having had all the models you really cant compare the experience. Lack of sense of occasion???
Whats so special about the 355 interior? I found mine to be dated,rattly and very poor quality with rather cheap looking switches and dials- granted the G cars dash is no work of art.
Secondly, looks are subjective, when im out with my f car owning friends in my lambo the car people really want to see is the lambo.
As to the noise fit a tubi
Of course if your one of those that thinks the 360 is the best style to come from pininfarina- then fair enough keep that!
I would be very interested to know what was done to up grade the power of the 355!! no matter what one does the gains are extremely limited.
Had a 355B and loved it - excellent handling and only real fault was steering a bit light/lacking feel but sharpened up once pushing on so that was ok. Never been a fan of the 360 though and gone off Ferrari in recent years although the 430 sounds damn impressive.
I've seen one Gallardo here (Glasgow) but numerous 360's. I'll be going for an orange or black Gallardo at some point as a supercar that can be used daily (compact size). Only real worry is the frequency of clutch changes and cost. £4k every 3,000 miles is not acceptable in my book although possibly the clutch upgrades have since solved this issue.
I've seen one Gallardo here (Glasgow) but numerous 360's. I'll be going for an orange or black Gallardo at some point as a supercar that can be used daily (compact size). Only real worry is the frequency of clutch changes and cost. £4k every 3,000 miles is not acceptable in my book although possibly the clutch upgrades have since solved this issue.
AL001 said:
Had a 355B and loved it - excellent handling and only real fault was steering a bit light/lacking feel but sharpened up once pushing on so that was ok. Never been a fan of the 360 though and gone off Ferrari in recent years although the 430 sounds damn impressive.
I've seen one Gallardo here (Glasgow) but numerous 360's. I'll be going for an orange or black Gallardo at some point as a supercar that can be used daily (compact size). Only real worry is the frequency of clutch changes and cost. £4k every 3,000 miles is not acceptable in my book although possibly the clutch upgrades have since solved this issue.
I had the 355 also and loved it. I feel ferrari lost the plot after that model!
As to the clutch the original pack has been updated- many cars on 12/18K no reported problems.
if you buy a UK car they will consider a foc upgrade if you get problems if you had the earlier clutch pack fitted- I think they changed about jan 05
Its costs about 2.7K at an independant to change it.
AL001 said:
Only real worry is the frequency of clutch changes and cost. £4k every 3,000 miles is not acceptable in my book although possibly the clutch upgrades have since solved this issue.
Boss's car (04 manual Gallardo) has done at least 12k miles, including one Gumball Rally and numerous trackdays... no clutch issues afaik. He drives his daily as well.
He's not in the office atm so can't check on those details. Email me if you want
I'd be doing a few trackdays in it too. How did his brakes cope? Did he uprate the pads? Another thing I need to check is cost of replacement discs because everything in Lambo land for a new'ish one seems damn expensive, at least double Ferrari prices or is that just my imagination? Any Lambo owners care to comment?
AL001 said:
I'd be doing a few trackdays in it too. How did his brakes cope? Did he uprate the pads? Another thing I need to check is cost of replacement discs because everything in Lambo land for a new'ish one seems damn expensive, at least double Ferrari prices or is that just my imagination? Any Lambo owners care to comment?
One thing you will not need is a brake upgrade!!
normal disks and pads are far more than ample for track use.
Costs so far on mine have been reasonable- in fact the 355 cost a lot more
rear butress joins, cats, manifolds, bypass valve, belts ect.
First major on lambo was 1k
FYI the 355 upgrades were as follows
Gruppe M chip
Gruppe M carbon Fibre induction unit
ITO racing exhaust system
6 pot AP racing calipers and disk upgrade all round (2 pots on rear)
Upgraded power to 398 bhp on the rollers
Nowhere near a gallardo but exactly what i am saying personal choices are exactly that... the interior in the 355 isnt special and maybe a choice of trim colours in the gallardo that makes the difference but having been in one I was not enthralled...amybe becasue i always loved the shape of the 355 - I am not enthralled by the 360 shape either but I prefer it to the square angular looks of the Gallardo...
Me - I am saving up for an F40 - bugger all inside but waht a vision of beauty , what a noise and what power... 2006 is the year...fingers crossed
Having travelled down th Le Mans with a murcielago now there is a special car....awesome looks, awesome power the whole package....in my humble opinion...but still looks odd from the rear....me - passed on the 360. passed on the 430....I prefer the shape of the 355.....changed the wifes car for an RS6 Avant instead....my change will be next year....if at all....having done everything to make it perect in my eyes i am loathed to sell it....might jsut buy a radical for the track and be done with it...
Gruppe M chip
Gruppe M carbon Fibre induction unit
ITO racing exhaust system
6 pot AP racing calipers and disk upgrade all round (2 pots on rear)
Upgraded power to 398 bhp on the rollers
Nowhere near a gallardo but exactly what i am saying personal choices are exactly that... the interior in the 355 isnt special and maybe a choice of trim colours in the gallardo that makes the difference but having been in one I was not enthralled...amybe becasue i always loved the shape of the 355 - I am not enthralled by the 360 shape either but I prefer it to the square angular looks of the Gallardo...
Me - I am saving up for an F40 - bugger all inside but waht a vision of beauty , what a noise and what power... 2006 is the year...fingers crossed
Having travelled down th Le Mans with a murcielago now there is a special car....awesome looks, awesome power the whole package....in my humble opinion...but still looks odd from the rear....me - passed on the 360. passed on the 430....I prefer the shape of the 355.....changed the wifes car for an RS6 Avant instead....my change will be next year....if at all....having done everything to make it perect in my eyes i am loathed to sell it....might jsut buy a radical for the track and be done with it...
Cheers once again, the Gallardo is definitely looking the car to buy. I've had a GT3 (Mk1) so the 996TT may be a disappointment. The Noble sounds great being lightweight but reliability is a slight worry and I'm not near the factory (who offer good support). Sounds like I'm talking myself into it!
I didn't really have many bills on my 355B as only had it for a year/3,000 miles. The engine had to come out to fix an oil leak, which was just a dodgey seal but other than that, a minor service. The buttresses were starting to bubble under the paint though as usual - this was iin 2000 on a '94 car.
What colour is your Gallardo? Who services it? Heard any bad reports about Lambo Manchester?
P.S. Sorry for all the questions.
I didn't really have many bills on my 355B as only had it for a year/3,000 miles. The engine had to come out to fix an oil leak, which was just a dodgey seal but other than that, a minor service. The buttresses were starting to bubble under the paint though as usual - this was iin 2000 on a '94 car.
What colour is your Gallardo? Who services it? Heard any bad reports about Lambo Manchester?
P.S. Sorry for all the questions.
lambo london look after it and the serive is excellent.
Everything done under warrranty.
There have been a few issues.
Coil pack upgrade( to stop water into the coils) which causes some owners big issues)
the clutch, which was changed on mone after 2K miles FOC and the suspension bushes changed as an upgrade
If you buy a non UK car you get a 2 year shorter warranty and I doubt the main lambo dealers will help you much!
Everything done under warrranty.
There have been a few issues.
Coil pack upgrade( to stop water into the coils) which causes some owners big issues)
the clutch, which was changed on mone after 2K miles FOC and the suspension bushes changed as an upgrade
If you buy a non UK car you get a 2 year shorter warranty and I doubt the main lambo dealers will help you much!
you working for James now rico?
rico said:
Only real worry is the frequency of clutch changes and cost. £4k every 3,000 miles is not acceptable in my book although possibly the clutch upgrades have since solved this issue.
Boss's car (04 manual Gallardo) has done at least 12k miles, including one Gumball Rally and numerous trackdays... no clutch issues afaik. He drives his daily as well.
He's not in the office atm so can't check on those details. Email me if you want
YHM octane said:
...Actually Ferrari now can be compared to a designer brand similar to LV, B&O ect. They have sold out to commercialism
This does not mean that they make better cars in fact far from it ...
Hmmm.
First up, nearly every manufacturer has "sold out". As I recall, Audi now own Lambo, Aston is a Ford model, Ferrari has been a Fiat proposition for a while (though there's something less straightforwad about its ownership I believe). All are there to make their owners a big profit, and to act as a halo barnd in their line up.
As for the cars, you're not really comparing the right models. Every single report I've read has the 430 as the pick of the field at this moment in time.
OK, the Gallardo is a couple of years old and will be upgraded. But then out will come the 430CS and so the amusement continues.
I seriously considered a Murci, so its not a Lambo/Ferrari thing. And the only 360 I rate is the CS, so I'm not blind to the ways of Maranello, But the Gallardo does nothing for me. I'm sure for many the opposite is true, but I want more than being able to jump in it every day and drive to work (I'd buy an M5 for that I guess, if I could bear having a 4 seater
). In today's congested environments, character is absolutely everything - you need that something that makes you smile and as mentioned by basher, that makes your heart skip when you see it. Vive la difference!
Lots of banter, thats what i like to see. After ten years of Porsche 911 turbo ownership I finally bit the bullet an bought a Gallardo (as I'd always loved them since they came out). All I can say is what a car.Yes it has its niggles (like any super car)but everywhere, and I mean everywhere you go in the car there are crowds of people sticking their thumbs up to you or crowding round the car. The Porsche used to get attention as it was highly modded but nothing like this. You will never ever get that with a 360 as they are ten a penny these days, even 'up north'. At the end of the day a Lambo is something very special as it has exclusivity and every Tom, Dick and Harry is not wearing the corporate brand clothing!
I guess its like everything, its down to personal choice. The looks of the Gallardo IMO are far sexier than the 360 or 430 will ever be and as for performance, with a good driver on real roads it will kill it!!
Hope you make the right decision!
I guess its like everything, its down to personal choice. The looks of the Gallardo IMO are far sexier than the 360 or 430 will ever be and as for performance, with a good driver on real roads it will kill it!!
Hope you make the right decision!
murph7355 said:
...Actually Ferrari now can be compared to a designer brand similar to LV, B&O ect. They have sold out to commercialism
This does not mean that they make better cars in fact far from it ...
Hmmm.
First up, nearly every manufacturer has "sold out". As I recall, Audi now own Lambo, Aston is a Ford model, Ferrari has been a Fiat proposition for a while (though there's something less straightforwad about its ownership I believe). All are there to make their owners a big profit, and to act as a halo barnd in their line up.
As for the cars, you're not really comparing the right models. Every single report I've read has the 430 as the pick of the field at this moment in time.
OK, the Gallardo is a couple of years old and will be upgraded. But then out will come the 430CS and so the amusement continues.
I seriously considered a Murci, so its not a Lambo/Ferrari thing. And the only 360 I rate is the CS, so I'm not blind to the ways of Maranello, But the Gallardo does nothing for me. I'm sure for many the opposite is true, but I want more than being able to jump in it every day and drive to work (I'd buy an M5 for that I guess, if I could bear having a 4 seater
Vive la difference!
The point i was trying to make was does one think the 360 is the nicest product to have come from pininfarina( if you one says yes, i will worry!)
does one think the 360 with a body kit- oh sorry the 430 is a good effort. It is a 'soft car'
I think lambo is making a more focused car than ferrari at the moment and better built than any current f car.
Ive yet to read a road test of a new F car that is less than efusive about the car. I have all the autocar write ups and JC comments as well.
Of the 348 it was said' This is the finest sportscar you can buy for 70K it is without doubt a masterpiece -in a recent article JC said is was quite simply i quote'an awful car'
I enjoyed my 355 but i needed that something that made me smile, the looks ,TORQUE and power of the gallardo do that in a way the 355 did not.
It is all about character but in the end if one is driving a sports car that is perceived to be the best it was alwasy embarrasing in the 355 to be overtaken by even modest machinery but rightly so the 355 will be a true classic.
I've been doing wedding in the Murci but the booking fell off dramatically when I got rid of the 355. I also do hot laps at various tracks in the Murci and although it doesnt get booked much in advance, once I turn up in it people go crazy for it and its busy all day..Thats the point.People like the idea of a red Ferrari - don't know what an Orange Mucie is.So i've just bought a red 360 for the trackdays with a mate of mine.
-DeaDLocK- said:
In terms of your business Tuan, I reckon the 360 would have more clout.
First, it's a Ferrari - most familiar brand name in the world. Means more to your average punter than Lamborghini. Second, it's far more compatible with the average visual palette than the Gallardo, and is a convertible, which really helps again with general public appeal.
You've gotta have a Ferrari on the fleet I reckon - if not for yourself then definitely the business.
However for personal use I'd trade it in for a Gallardo. And even if you were keeping the 360 I don't know if upgrading it is the way to go. You're clearly toying with the idea of a change, and modding your current car maybe ultimately isn't going to give you that change you want.
I think at the end of the day Rico's got it nailed - get the Gallardo to go along with the current fleet.
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