Everyday ‘Supercar’

[MKnight702]

caminator11 said:

Hoofy said:

TP321 said:

A real, proper supercar won’t be used everyday - you simply wouldn’t want to. That’s the acid test of a supercar.

Why wouldn't you want to? I could see me buying an older Ferrari (F360 or 550) and using it everyday including trips to Tesco.

Doing mundane tasks in a special car takes away the lustre, for me. Heading to the supermarket once in a while is fun, but starting to associate your Ferrari with the soul destroying commute to work and the frustrations of everyday life ruin the magic.

In my experience its nice to have a special car for doing special things. Not a supercar (don't want to wade into that quagmire again!) but whenever I get in my GT3RS I sort of relax knowing I've got fun times ahead.

Maybe the best way to put it - steak might be your favourite meal but eat it every day and you'll get sick of it.

For me, there are two things that make a supercar stand out from a sports car.

It absolutely must come from a supercar manufacturer (sorry Audi R8), chuck your Audi keys on the bar or tell someone that you drive an Audi and nobody is going to bat an eyelid, if you have to justify it to anyone then you have already lost. Just telling someone that you drive a Lamborghini, McLaren, Ferrari etc and you are already a supercar owner in most people's eyes.

A supercar should stand out from the crowd to everyone, not just those in the know. Sorry Porsche 911T (and R8, again) Granny is unlikely to be able to tell that the Porsche 911 GT3 RS is materially different to the 911 Carrera other than it is fitted with a wing. To those in the know these things may stand out, but to most the generic 911 shape is the same, so it is the same. As for the R8, the ill informed are likely to see it as a TT or at best a modified / fast version of a TT, this feeds off the first point.

[blueSL]

If anything, trying to use your supercar as a daily driver increases your stress level because they tend to be larger, especailly wider and parking becomes a real issue. Multi-storey car parks, forget it. Width restrictions, road humps, all there to ruin your day.

The closest I come to using what some might call a supercar is a 991.1 GT3, narrow body, better suited to the task with front axle lift. Later 911s are wider, have you seen a 992, and much more difficult to use as daily drivers. That's all before the cars atract unwanted attention and we all know that supercars driven when you are tired/pre-occupied are a pain. Best leave them to go with your leisure time, IMHO.

[r o n n i e]

Hoofy said:

caminator11 said:

Hoofy said:

TP321 said:

A real, proper supercar won’t be used everyday - you simply wouldn’t want to. That’s the acid test of a supercar.

Why wouldn't you want to? I could see me buying an older Ferrari (F360 or 550) and using it everyday including trips to Tesco.

Doing mundane tasks in a special car takes away the lustre, for me. Heading to the supermarket once in a while is fun, but starting to associate your Ferrari with the soul destroying commute to work and the frustrations of everyday life ruin the magic.

In my experience its nice to have a special car for doing special things. Not a supercar (don't want to wade into that quagmire again!) but whenever I get in my GT3RS I sort of relax knowing I've got fun times ahead.

Maybe the best way to put it - steak might be your favourite meal but eat it every day and you'll get sick of it.

Ah, fair enough. I see it the other way round. It makes mundane tasks more fun. When I used to commute in a fun car (also not a supercar), it made me look forward to the drive and made it a little more enjoyable than it would have done had I done it in a "normal" car.

Good to see lots of different opinions.

I run and cycle more accumulate miles over a year than some of my cars so I am definitely Hoofy’s camp - any excuse be it commute, shopping, etc. Basically any drive I don’t need more than 2 seats for.

[DeejRC]

I use my F12 as a daily. Goes from Devon to Oxford to the office.
Goes to B&M Bargains at the weekend to raid their Midgets Gems stash, Morrisons & Waitrose for the weekly shopping.
Goes to the farm shop on Sunday for the fresh veg.

The F12 isn’t a Supercar though, as it lacks the obvious mid engined shoutyness.

The great thing about using such a car as your daily is the sure fire absolute knowledge that definitions don’t matter.

[sparta6]

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

When you say "everyone", can you kindly elaborate ?

That was the perception. I quite liked the Dino when I learnt about it in the 1990s.

So not quite an Ipsos Mori Poll then

No, but I personally interviewed the entire population of male car owners in 1997 to check because it was that important for me to know everyone's opinion.

Ah that's ok then. Your "everyone" is therefore qualified

Seriously, though, I used to read a lot of magazines in the 1990s and this was the vibe I got re Dinos. I guess they were beginning the MSM narrative to get us to take the 5G vaccine and as we all know, Dino Ferrari died of Covid-19*.



* - alternative fact.

You've gone from stating "everyone", and ended with the actuality of "vibe"

That's special even by PH standards

[Hoofy]

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

When you say "everyone", can you kindly elaborate ?

That was the perception. I quite liked the Dino when I learnt about it in the 1990s.

So not quite an Ipsos Mori Poll then

No, but I personally interviewed the entire population of male car owners in 1997 to check because it was that important for me to know everyone's opinion.

Ah that's ok then. Your "everyone" is therefore qualified

Seriously, though, I used to read a lot of magazines in the 1990s and this was the vibe I got re Dinos. I guess they were beginning the MSM narrative to get us to take the 5G vaccine and as we all know, Dino Ferrari died of Covid-19*.



* - alternative fact.

You've gone from stating "everyone", and ended with the actuality of "vibe"

That's special even by PH standards

I forgot this was a statistics test.

[sparta6]

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

When you say "everyone", can you kindly elaborate ?

That was the perception. I quite liked the Dino when I learnt about it in the 1990s.

So not quite an Ipsos Mori Poll then

No, but I personally interviewed the entire population of male car owners in 1997 to check because it was that important for me to know everyone's opinion.

Ah that's ok then. Your "everyone" is therefore qualified

Seriously, though, I used to read a lot of magazines in the 1990s and this was the vibe I got re Dinos. I guess they were beginning the MSM narrative to get us to take the 5G vaccine and as we all know, Dino Ferrari died of Covid-19*.



* - alternative fact.

You've gone from stating "everyone", and ended with the actuality of "vibe"

That's special even by PH standards

I forgot this was a statistics test.

This is PH and all claims require supporting evidence.

"Everyone" is a pretty big claim

[pauloroberto]

For what it's worth, an i8 makes a great daily but it's not a supercar (and nor is an R8 or a Huracan IMHO).

[Hedgeman]

MKnight702 said:

For me, there are two things that make a supercar stand out from a sports car.

It absolutely must come from a supercar manufacturer (sorry Audi R8), chuck your Audi keys on the bar or tell someone that you drive an Audi and nobody is going to bat an eyelid, if you have to justify it to anyone then you have already lost. Just telling someone that you drive a Lamborghini, McLaren, Ferrari etc and you are already a supercar owner in most people's eyes.

A supercar should stand out from the crowd to everyone, not just those in the know. Sorry Porsche 911T (and R8, again) Granny is unlikely to be able to tell that the Porsche 911 GT3 RS is materially different to the 911 Carrera other than it is fitted with a wing. To those in the know these things may stand out, but to most the generic 911 shape is the same, so it is the same. As for the R8, the ill informed are likely to see it as a TT or at best a modified / fast version of a TT, this feeds off the first point.

So it's not about the car, it's about how it is perceived by people who know nothing and care little about cars? Whilst I don't disagree that is many people's perspective(it is clear just from this thread), it's an amusing perspective nevertheless, that many of the supposed enthusiasts of a hobby are so beholden to the opinion of people with little knowledge.

But it does explain why the drivers union someone posted above permits membership from owners of 348's, Mondials and similar old sheds in place of much more capable machinery

[DeejRC]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Special to who though? Or how?
I’m in a V12 Berlinetta…it’s *always* special to me. It will always be special to me because of what it is.
On the other hand…it’s just a car. I get in and drive her, stick her on cruise on the M5 and don’t care. Throw st in the boot or back and not care.

A car is only ever just a car. Even when it means everything to 7yo you.

[MKnight702]

Hedgeman said:

So it's not about the car, it's about how it is perceived by people who know nothing and care little about cars? Whilst I don't disagree that is many people's perspective(it is clear just from this thread), it's an amusing perspective nevertheless, that many of the supposed enthusiasts of a hobby are so beholden to the opinion of people with little knowledge.

But it does explain why the drivers union someone posted above permits membership from owners of 348's, Mondials and similar old sheds in place of much more capable machinery

Given that a new hot hatch is probably faster 0-60 and cross country than a Countach, yes, there is more to being a supercar than outright capability.
Nobody is going to argue that a Countach isn't a supercar and a BMW M3 is because it's quicker on a B road blast.

As to your other point, I would argue that again yes, a supercar is more about the feelings it engenders in the general public than the figures on paper that "supposed enthusiasts" like me (and presumably you) like to look at. If I gave you the choice between a new Vauxhall Grandland X or an old shed Ferrari 348, obvoiusly you would immediately grab the keys with the wonky pigeon on since it is probaly "more capable" than the "old shed" of the 348?

[Hoofy]

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

Hoofy said:

sparta6 said:

When you say "everyone", can you kindly elaborate ?

That was the perception. I quite liked the Dino when I learnt about it in the 1990s.

So not quite an Ipsos Mori Poll then

No, but I personally interviewed the entire population of male car owners in 1997 to check because it was that important for me to know everyone's opinion.

Ah that's ok then. Your "everyone" is therefore qualified

Seriously, though, I used to read a lot of magazines in the 1990s and this was the vibe I got re Dinos. I guess they were beginning the MSM narrative to get us to take the 5G vaccine and as we all know, Dino Ferrari died of Covid-19*.



* - alternative fact.

You've gone from stating "everyone", and ended with the actuality of "vibe"

That's special even by PH standards

I forgot this was a statistics test.

This is PH and all claims require supporting evidence.

"Everyone" is a pretty big claim

That was the perception, anyway.

[popeyewhite]

blueSL said:

If anything, trying to use your supercar as a daily driver increases your stress level because they tend to be larger, especailly wider and parking becomes a real issue. Multi-storey car parks, forget it. Width restrictions, road humps, all there to ruin your day.

I drove a 911 Carrera S everyday for two years. No supercar (I don't believe any 911 Porsche is), and no everyday car either. Never again Blinded by everyone behind at night because it's so low. Towered over by lorries and caught in their wash on the motorway. Front acts as a snowscoop, PITA front boot. Tiny inside. Ridiculous dealer costs for everything. New battery (10 years ago) was over £120 IIRC. Great to drive though.

[Pioneer]

pauloroberto said:

For what it's worth, an i8 makes a great daily but it's not a supercar (and nor is an R8 or a Huracan IMHO).

My wife went from a M4CP Conv to an i8. She absolutely loved it, a hoot to drive. Perfect dd with a bit of poke. She did a prom run in it with one our neighbour's daughters. Got more attention than me in the LP. Possibly as she was the only woman driver there ... but still a great little car. No supercar by any means though, in the same league as the R8 etc

[Hedgeman]

MKnight702 said:

Given that a new hot hatch is probably faster 0-60 and cross country than a Countach, yes, there is more to being a supercar than outright capability.
Nobody is going to argue that a Countach isn't a supercar and a BMW M3 is because it's quicker on a B road blast.

As to your other point, I would argue that again yes, a supercar is more about the feelings it engenders in the general public than the figures on paper that "supposed enthusiasts" like me (and presumably you) like to look at. If I gave you the choice between a new Vauxhall Grandland X or an old shed Ferrari 348, obvoiusly you would immediately grab the keys with the wonky pigeon on since it is probaly "more capable" than the "old shed" of the 348?

I agree on outright capability. I'd suggest the countach is a former supercar though, remembered for what it was, not what it now is. Personally I'd probably err objectively towards shed rather than supercar in 2021, but that's unlikely to be a popular view here.

But the more I read of this thread, the more convinced I am that for a great many people here, supercar is simply 90% brand and 10% a mix of other stuff. Which makes me question the real level of driving and automotive engineering enthusiasm of many.

I'm not sure there is any other explanation for why a car like the R8 V10+ with 600+ bhp, one of the greatest engines ever, great noise, handling, sublime looks and le mans heritage gets passed over in favour of (frankly) sheds with a prancing horse or other badge with laughable modern motorsport credentials. In some cases for cars which were bad in their day, and belong in the crusher now

Ultimately though the psychology of this and people's reaction is the interesting part. The classification and ranking itself is less interesting, and remains as purely subjective on page 8 as it did on page 1.

[popeyewhite]

Hedgeman said:

I'm not sure there is any other explanation for why a car like the R8 V10+ with 600+ bhp,

Not really a selling point, plenty of saloons (E63 etc) with way more than that when tuned. I recall an early Youtube vid where a standard supercharged E55 took on the current (at that time) R8 and won.

Hedgeman said:

Ultimately though the psychology of this and people's reaction is the interesting part.

What do you mean by "psychology of this"?

[TP321]

pauloroberto said:

For what it's worth, an i8 makes a great daily but it's not a supercar (and nor is an R8 or a Huracan IMHO).

I agree on the Huracan - it’s a step up from the R8 in that it’s a Lamborghini, but next to its big brother it certainly isn’t a supercar. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[Hedgeman]

popeyewhite said:

Hedgeman said:

I'm not sure there is any other explanation for why a car like the R8 V10+ with 600+ bhp,

Not really a selling point, plenty of saloons (E63 etc) with way more than that when tuned. I recall an early Youtube vid where a standard supercharged E55 took on the current (at that time) R8 and won.

Hedgeman said:

Ultimately though the psychology of this and people's reaction is the interesting part.

What do you mean by "psychology of this"?

This must be the first time someone has suggested that a mid mounted 600+ bhp normally aspirated V10 that spins to almost 9k rpm and is more sonorous than almost anything else on the road is "not a selling point"

By psychology, I mean that it's more interesting to listen to the views people have and think about how they fit into the framework of human behaviour, emotions and drives, than the ultimate subjective classification.

[MKnight702]

Hedgeman said:

But the more I read of this thread, the more convinced I am that for a great many people here, supercar is simply 90% brand and 10% a mix of other stuff. Which makes me question the real level of driving and automotive engineering enthusiasm of many.

You question the driving enthusiasm of the majority of people? Why, most people on the road haven’t a clue about driving and care even less, they see a car as a disposable white good.

This is why the emotional element of supercarness is important, the majority of people would recognise a Lamborghini or Ferrari and automatically associate it with something special, the fact that it isn’t necessarily as fast as a modern hot hatch wouldn’t register as they do not care about cars. You will see Dad in his new Zafailure point a 348 out to his kids, he probably wouldn’t even register that the Audi with the loud exhaust isn’t just a Barried TT since he sees Audis everywhere.

[anonymous-user]

sparta6 said:

BlackWidow13 said:

Too simplistic to say that of “911”s.

GT2, GT2RS, GT3, GT3RS, Turbo S not supercars? Really?

Supercar club eligibility list

https://thedriversunion.com/qualifying-cars

Not sure this sorts of things are especially definitive.

According to this one https://www.supercar-driver.com/qualifying-car-lis... I own not one but two super cars. DU says I own none. But they both classify a Mondial (no), a California (no), an FF (dubious) as a super car, SCD says a Urus is in (no), DU says all Lotus Esprits are super cars (even the ones that were pedestrian by the standards of their time) and neither lists an NSX (which at least has a case).

They are both just money making exercises playing to vanity.