50k deposit, 6/700 monthlies What can I get?

[Jonny TVR]

I know from experience its not easy getting out of a supercar like a Ferrari/ Lambo without taking pain. The depreciation could cost you the equivalent of £2k a month. Who knows where the market will be in 12 months time.

[Shnozz]

Given how well you’ve done in the medium sports car sector why not just carry on working your way up buying the cars rather than be now inclined into the world of pcp? I know everyone is different but no way I could do pcp on a pure indulgence car that has the potential to swallow a years worth of pcp payments just in a dealer spread, and that’s before considering where the economy sits right now.

[Ferruccio]

Quite.
I’d always pay cash for a sports car.
But if you talk to dealers 90+% don’t - it’s the way that many people live today.

[MDL111]

This thread made me take a rough guess at my car costs on a monthly basis, stopped that immediately again after realizing my insurance costs more than 1k a month and just the service for one car was more than 1k a month. One-off bills are much easier to ignore
I really should not think about this stuff as otherwise car will go up for sale the next day

[OssAndy]

A £60k v10 R8 is about as safe a place to put your money in a car as you'll get, depreciation wise in my opinion.

Whether it's special enough? With a proper exhaust on it, it should be.

[likesachange]

Thanks for all the input and replies people.

An R8 just isn't special enough am afraid (possibly a 2015 onwards model maybe), am not sure a V12 Vantage will be too, main concern regarding the latter as it being a bit too much of a GT car?!

I have a high spec Atom 4 coming end of next month which is pretty special so would absolutely need to out shine that. I certainly wouldn't swap it for 10 yr old R8 for instance.

[MDL111]

likesachange said:

Thanks for all the input and replies people.

An R8 just isn't special enough am afraid (possibly a 2015 onwards model maybe), am not sure a V12 Vantage will be too, main concern regarding the latter as it being a bit too much of a GT car?!

I have a high spec Atom 4 coming end of next month which is pretty special so would absolutely need to out shine that. I certainly wouldn't swap it for 10 yr old R8 for instance.

Not a fan of the 360? I think they are aging really nicely - esp with CS bumpers. And even if the market should crash, you don’t have that much tied up in it (compared to a 100k plus car)

[DeejRC]

What do want from this “supercar” OP?

[Shnozz]

DeejRC said:

What do want from this “supercar” OP?

I think this question is the delicate nail on the head when you have arguably owned cars that tick the supercar box in terms of performance and even exclusivity but not been the poster supercar that means YOU have ticked the box. Ask the man on the street and an Atom would tick both the performance box and the headturning box.

Looking at your past cars they are an electric mix of proper petrolhead motors. To take on a big debt to get little more from the car seems crazy to my mind, particularly when you have owned what you now have rather than just a case of temporarily inflating the monthlies for 24 months to "drive the dream". Arguably you would enjoy the experience less when its costing you a big chunk of money every month or you st yourself where its parked or a chip on a track day etc.

Different strokes for different folks and all that but I would be thinking hard as to my own response to DeejRC's question before committing myself to a lengthy repayment (or even PCP) period.

[likesachange]

DeejRC said:

What do want from this “supercar” OP?

Performance, exclusivity, something an event to drive (that’s warm and dry ) …. Yes the Atom offers a lot but end of the day it’s driven by a 4 pot Honda and as much as it’s a riot you need the perfect weather to plan anything is difficult!

[ghost83]

Again I think I’d put the money into a 2011-2013 gallardo

It’s a proper Italian super car, residuals aren’t going to change much on one and if you’re lucky you could find a manual

I love McLaren and would buy one, but the 6k a year warranty and then servicing at £1500+ would put me off real quick

[DeejRC]

Then its V12 OP. Everything else just...
...
...
...isnt.

After you have got that bug out of your system, then you can buy something fun, interesting, but more sensible. Until then though, with the way your head is going, a V8 is just another V8. Doesn't matter who makes it or what chassis its in, its still *just* an 8.

Do the 12, get it out of your system and the money you are talking is absolutely 12 money, be it Donkey, Bull or Gaydon.

[MDL111]

ghost83 said:

Again I think I’d put the money into a 2011-2013 gallardo

It’s a proper Italian super car, residuals aren’t going to change much on one and if you’re lucky you could find a manual

I love McLaren and would buy one, but the 6k a year warranty and then servicing at £1500+ would put me off real quick

I quite like that idea, similar to the 360 but faster (and a little more expensive)

or go look for a mid-engined V12, but then the budget will need to be a little higher - but that would be the ultimate in terms of event to drive / drama etc.

[justin220]

ghost83 said:

Again I think I’d put the money into a 2011-2013 gallardo

It’s a proper Italian super car, residuals aren’t going to change much on one and if you’re lucky you could find a manual

I love McLaren and would buy one, but the 6k a year warranty and then servicing at £1500+ would put me off real quick

On the Mac, neither of those costs are that accurate. A sports series is £3k a year for warranty, and £800/£1200 a year minor/major intervals

Super series is £5k a year warranty

[ANOpax]

DeejRC said:

Then its V12 OP. Everything else just...
...
...
...isnt.

After you have got that bug out of your system, then you can buy something fun, interesting, but more sensible. Until then though, with the way your head is going, a V8 is just another V8. Doesn't matter who makes it or what chassis its in, its still *just* an 8.

Do the 12, get it out of your system and the money you are talking is absolutely 12 money, be it Donkey, Bull or Gaydon.

^^^^ This in spades ^^^^

We've just acquired a second V12 for the 'pax household because, well, 460hp of n/a V8 just isn't enough...

And it doesn't have to be a donkey. The Gaydon V12V is a great package. Built like a brick outhouse in a really small form factor. The Mrs still misses her V8V for the size and shape of it.

Basically, no road car is going to match the thrills of an Atom. So why bother trying? Go, instead, for the comfort, sportiness and specialness that the V12 sports GTs can offer. The mid engine V8 supercars won't see which way the Atom went and they lack the dual personality of the V12s ( while being more capable everyday cars than the Atom). The Atom and V12 cars sit at the extreme ends of the power and weight spectra while the mid V8s occupy the middle ground. So fill your garage with the two extremes rather than the mid-road one-car compromise.

[DeejRC]

Ooo off topic, but...460 NA V8...have you just bought a Cali Pax?

After flogging the F12, I said I was considering a 360 Spyder or a Cali and in truth I think its going to be a Cali. Im now looking between the Mk1, 30 and T. Everyone seems to slate the mk1, but starting at 60k currently, I cant help think that a mk1 or 30 is a smart buy...esp with prices starting to soften a little over the rest of this yr.

What do you make of it so far?

[james_zy]

Another way of looking at it given you have provided us a deposit + monthlies figure, what are you expecting to see back at the end? Any of it? Most of it? Sort of affects whether it will be a brand new, depreciating monster (but a lot of fun), or something where the first owner has taken the hit and you see a bit more back when you come to sell it (also fun).

[ANOpax]

DeejRC said:

Ooo off topic, but...460 NA V8...have you just bought a Cali Pax?

After flogging the F12, I said I was considering a 360 Spyder or a Cali and in truth I think its going to be a Cali. Im now looking between the Mk1, 30 and T. Everyone seems to slate the mk1, but starting at 60k currently, I cant help think that a mk1 or 30 is a smart buy...esp with prices starting to soften a little over the rest of this yr.

What do you make of it so far?

Sorry, we’ve chopped the Cali (gen 1) (after owning it for nearly 3 years) for an F12…

Reasons to like the Cali…

The Roof
Everyday useable (good ground clearance, sight lines, large boot and back seats)
N/A engine
Enough power to be quick but not so much power that you can’t rev it out.

Reasons to dislike the Cali…

Unrefined at low speeds and high speeds - ride is harsh, there’s too much NVH and it isn’t planted at speed.
Doesn’t feel as special to drive as the other Fezzas

The problem with buying any donkey after you’ve owned the F12 is that they’re all going to seem a bit pants in comparison

But yeah - at £60k, they’re cracking value. It’s just that the mrs wanted something more from her daily. If we were going down the Cali road again, I’d be tempted to take a look at the T or Porto where they sorted the ride and handling.

[Chad_Hugo]

likesachange said:

Chad_Hugo said:

I would take the Merc and Porsche option off the list personally.

The Turbo S is great- capable, very practical, and devastatingly quick but doesn't look or feel like a supercar and is not the full super car experience.

There are a lot of options, and you don't have to go to the top of your budget either.

Ferrari F430 should arguably be one of the first cars to consider- you can get a good car for under 100k, if you buy well and do your homework a great choice. Not the fastest in the world but a proper super car, and you will enjoy it a lot I'm sure.

Ferrari 599 also an option, there are cars around for under/up to 100k, and can probably get a Ferrari approved car with 2 year power warranty for around 115k- again under the max budget.

You mentioned residuals being quite important, both of those option will not suffer any outright depreciation with sensible miles over 2 years so as long as you are able to sell via the same dealer on a commission sale, or possibly even privately in case of F430 you should lose next to nothing.

I would even look at something like a a 6.0 V12 Vantage S- brilliant value for what it is, 560 BHP, looks like a bargain in todays market as plenty available under 100k, you can actually get a nice example for anywhere between 85-90k often approved used with 1 year warranty. The newer cars with best specs are more of course but it's something to consider, far less common and more interesting than a Turbo S. Then there is the sound....!

Edited by Chad_Hugo on Monday 27th June 22:03

My reasons for the Merc is I think they look incredible, sound incredible, are pretty rare, modern and in theory pretty bullet proof. The Porsche more of the same although sound is a disappointment and more dated than the Merc..

The 599 would be epic but imagine potentially crippling maintenance costs??

The F430 and Aston I don't feel will give me the performance gains I'd want to match the "supercar" status But there is that noise and special feeling!

Fair enough, we are all different I suppose but I would still strongly advice you to go the Ferrari/Aston/Lambo route or at the very least have a look at and try to drive a few cars if you do actually want a super car.

Merc GTR- will always be just another fast sporty looking mercedes, I would not even consider it on any such list. You mentioned you want something that is a bit of an event to drive and exclusive? Kind of makes sense then to stay away from a brand of car where you see 100's of them every day.

A super car is more about the way it makes you feel, the intangibles more than just outright speed. It's the total experience, not how fast it goes in a straight line.

I'm also a bit surprised that you dismiss a V12 Vantage as 'too GT like' (have you ever driven one?) but you have a Turbo S on the list, and a 991.2 as well? Of those cars the Porsche is far more sedate and mundane. If you want to try a Turbo S, I would say look at the 997.2 Turbo S which is that bit more raw, sounds a bit better and of course better value.

599- won't be crippling if you a)buy with a 2 year Ferrari warranty via dealer network b) buy from a trusted specialist of which there are plenty and get PPI done if any concerns exist. Also, I get the impression you won't keep whatever car you buy very long term, and won't do big miles so a 599 for say 2 years, with 3500-4000 miles per year should not and if you do your homework will not be crippling at all. Yes, they cost more to service than V8, but they are epic cars.

LP-560 Gallardo also worth mentioning. A lot of car for the money, obviously not the most discreet or subtle car in the world, if you like it visually though it ticks a lot of boxes potentially.

Wildcard- ok I admit not a super car but a very, very super GT- Ferrari FF. Within your budget from what you posted- 650 bhp V12, say no more..

Good luck whatever you decide!

[MisterBigglesworth]

Well here is a worked example based on JBR funding rates at 7.9 percent on a 36 month Lease Purchase

Ferrari 458 - £150,000
Deposit - £50,000
Final Payment - £90,891
Monthly : £881.46
Total interest paid : £21,892

So your basic cost is £21,892 - effect8vely all your monthly as you will only pay down 9k of principal.

Depending on condition and mileage and market you could get anything from a 100-130k trade bid at the end, the 458 values are fairly stable and the 90k is reasonably well supported by the 430 / 360 that sit beneath it/

Mclarens and Lambos are a bit harder to predict, with Gallardo being down to 60k and a lot of supply both Mclarens and Huracans could continue to depreciate sub 100k.

So for 3 years you are looking at 21k of interest , anywhere up to 30k - 50k of depreciation based on how much you use it, plus about 6k of servicing, then insurance fuel and tax.

You’ll realistically need to keep under 3k miss a year to keep car saleable so about 9k total at a cost of probably 60-70k

So you’ll walk out of your car in 3 years best case having burned your whole deposit and then some.

Buy a R8 V10 Spider for cash at 60k, you immediately save 21k in interest, and whatever you get back when you sell it will be more than you would have in the finance deal, and you won’t be forced to sell it to cover the 90k in 3 years.

The general rule of thumb - if after all your expenses your income generated is higher than your costs including depreciation, you are still getting wealthier, if however you cannot exceed the above figures you are basically making yourself poor and burning all your money in a way that cannot be sustained and effectively destroying your own wealth.