50k deposit, 6/700 monthlies What can I get?
Discussion
Mr Bigglesworth speaks sense. It’s also worth pointing out (because some people still don’t get it) that these contract leases that the garages like to push are in no way shape or form like your traditional PCP.
That final payment isn’t an option-it’s mandatory-No handing the keys back and walking away after £21k and some fun memories.
If you ain’t got the financial ability to pay it off when the time comes you’re at the mercy of the market.
That final payment isn’t an option-it’s mandatory-No handing the keys back and walking away after £21k and some fun memories.
If you ain’t got the financial ability to pay it off when the time comes you’re at the mercy of the market.
May be completely wrong way of calculating it but when I got the Mrs a new Boxster recently, we did half up front as a deposit, half on PCP finance which basically equated to paying interest only for the term of the finance on the remaining half, followed by the GFV of the remaining half after 3 years.
If you can raise 70k and find something that'll run ~140k total, suspect you'd get away with a 2 or 3 year PCP/LP deal along similar lines which would mean you're paying ~400/month to service the interest @7% and need to get the other 70k at the end of the term to buy it outright.
Not sure where residuals are these days but I'd suggest with the headroom from 400/month to your budget you may be able to look up to the 160k range which brings things like 458's, portofino's, 488's, 720s, vantages and more into budget. There's even a 2018 DBS Superleggera at 159850 at rybrook.
I've found Oracle very good at working numbers on residuals in the past for me with no commitment. You may want to trawl autotrader/ph classifieds and have 3 or 4 cars you're interested in to get them to give you some indicative numbers on.
Edit - Just be careful, if you're stretching yourself financially and thinking you may rely on finance to fund the balloon (remember, with a lease purchase the balloon is not optional), you're going to be financing it in a few years in all likelihood at a significantly higher interest rate than you'll get today.
If you can raise 70k and find something that'll run ~140k total, suspect you'd get away with a 2 or 3 year PCP/LP deal along similar lines which would mean you're paying ~400/month to service the interest @7% and need to get the other 70k at the end of the term to buy it outright.
Not sure where residuals are these days but I'd suggest with the headroom from 400/month to your budget you may be able to look up to the 160k range which brings things like 458's, portofino's, 488's, 720s, vantages and more into budget. There's even a 2018 DBS Superleggera at 159850 at rybrook.
I've found Oracle very good at working numbers on residuals in the past for me with no commitment. You may want to trawl autotrader/ph classifieds and have 3 or 4 cars you're interested in to get them to give you some indicative numbers on.
Edit - Just be careful, if you're stretching yourself financially and thinking you may rely on finance to fund the balloon (remember, with a lease purchase the balloon is not optional), you're going to be financing it in a few years in all likelihood at a significantly higher interest rate than you'll get today.
Edited by Soleith on Wednesday 29th June 16:03
This is all great info thanks all.
A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
likesachange said:
This is all great info thanks all.
A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
599's are epic cars.A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
Not all agreements have the final payment as mandatory. It depends on the contract. PCP's are typically manufacturer backed and will have an option to hand back the car at the end. Some manufacturers however (for example Ferrari, I know, just got my new Roma last year) will offer a regulated lease purchase finance but NOT a PCP. The finance numbers are generally comparable with a PCP but the final payment is mandatory meaning you either need to have the cash, refinance or sell and top up any shortfall if you weren't able to make enough money on the sale to cover the final payment.
Finance companies like oracle, magnitude etc used to offer pcp's on used cars but the residual will of course be lower than it would be on a lease purchase where the finance company doesn't take the risk of taking possession of a supercar which in the meantime may have plummeted in value due to global recessions etc. If you ask them to push up the numbers they'll probably do it (within reason) but only on a lease purchase where the final balloon is mandatory and they don't have to take the car back so that may be your best way into a low monthly payment, just need to make sure you know how you're going to handle things in 2, 3 or 4 years when the agreement ends.
likesachange said:
This is all great info thanks all.
A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
599’s are pretty good buy still and are sub 100k so at the bottom end depreciation.A 599 would be very special and never thought that one of those would be a possibility!
Maybe I should look a little more into the V12V too.
I didn’t realise the final payment was a mandatory thing at the end tbh, I thought you would have option to hand car back, doh.
But I suppose that’s not the be all and end all.
A good example might be
90k car
30k in
Your other 30k in a savings pot as a fund to fix anything
30k paid off over 48 months
30k final - use your savings pot to settle the finance.
You are at very little risk in the above deal as the parts alone on a 599 would stack up to more than the balloon.
You are only borrowing 60k, and you have 30k put aside for any trouble so effectively only exposed for 30k.
With the end of the NA v12 in sight, it’s likely to be a good long term bet as well as I don’t see F12’s coming down to put pressure on 599’s.
If you want a bit more financial risk, you can push your budget to 110-120 and secure a mint condition car with a 2 year power warranty from a Ferrari dealer,
likesachange said:
DeejRC said:
What do want from this “supercar” OP?
Performance, exclusivity, something an event to drive (that’s warm and dry ) …. Yes the Atom offers a lot but end of the day it’s driven by a 4 pot Honda and as much as it’s a riot you need the perfect weather to plan anything is difficult!If you want mainly performance, then I’d suggest a GT3 (perhaps RS) or a Mclaren. Both of those will give you exclusivity. Maybe the Porsche would be less of an event because there’s that “911 with a wing” thing about it. Maybe the (reported) reliability of a Macca is too off putting.
488 ticks the boxes too. But a Ferrari is a statement car, and you have to ask whether that’s the statement you want to make. Ditto a Huracan.
Manual R8 V10 has an epic soundtrack and is a safer place for your money than gilts. But lots of people will never see past the four rings on the bonnet, which is unfortunate (more so for them IMO).
I ended up going for a V12VS. On your perception of these: think of it as a brute in a well cut suit that can also do the GT thing. A car that can spin its rear wheels in fourth in the dry doesn’t quite fit the “full GT” tag (I’d say the Vanquish is the true GT car in that vintage of AM’s line up). With your budget you have the option of the 7s manual or the automated manual. Preference is personal.
Bottom line is that there aren’t really any dud cars in that lot. It comes down to what you like and want and which ones appeal to you. And it’s worth driving some of them to help you choose.
The cars are really all very different. If you have an Atom for the “pure” driving on a Sunday morning, maybe something relatively relaxed (like the various front engines V12s) could work for you. Most of those also have a little more space for luggage than the mid engined cars, which might be relevant for you
Pflanzgarten said:
All depends on what someone calls special I suppose though-the Audi R8 V10 manual certainly didn't to me, a car that was less than the sum of it's parts.
Not my monkey, not my circus, but this does kind of lead me back around to my earlier point in a way. The OP has had a good variety of interesting mini-supercars that offer the same traits in some ways. Impractical, compromised, lairy, strong performance and eye catching. The only difference being the price and the running costs and not being actual bona fide supercars.
At the next level it seems you either play it safe with the likes of an R8/911 etc or you go in feet first and accept it might cost you £50k or so. However, doing the former seems you still haven’t ticked off the pinnacle supercar ownership any more than you have already. And the latter, well it’s fine if you’ve £50k that you’re happy losing for the experience.
BlackWidow13 said:
This is the correct question. But the answer is a bit loose.
If you want mainly performance, then I’d suggest a GT3 (perhaps RS) or a Mclaren. Both of those will give you exclusivity. Maybe the Porsche would be less of an event because there’s that “911 with a wing” thing about it. Maybe the (reported) reliability of a Macca is too off putting.
488 ticks the boxes too. But a Ferrari is a statement car, and you have to ask whether that’s the statement you want to make. Ditto a Huracan.
Manual R8 V10 has an epic soundtrack and is a safer place for your money than gilts. But lots of people will never see past the four rings on the bonnet, which is unfortunate (more so for them IMO).
I ended up going for a V12VS. On your perception of these: think of it as a brute in a well cut suit that can also do the GT thing. A car that can spin its rear wheels in fourth in the dry doesn’t quite fit the “full GT” tag (I’d say the Vanquish is the true GT car in that vintage of AM’s line up). With your budget you have the option of the 7s manual or the automated manual. Preference is personal.
Bottom line is that there aren’t really any dud cars in that lot. It comes down to what you like and want and which ones appeal to you. And it’s worth driving some of them to help you choose.
The answer is loose but surely pretty predictable. If you want mainly performance, then I’d suggest a GT3 (perhaps RS) or a Mclaren. Both of those will give you exclusivity. Maybe the Porsche would be less of an event because there’s that “911 with a wing” thing about it. Maybe the (reported) reliability of a Macca is too off putting.
488 ticks the boxes too. But a Ferrari is a statement car, and you have to ask whether that’s the statement you want to make. Ditto a Huracan.
Manual R8 V10 has an epic soundtrack and is a safer place for your money than gilts. But lots of people will never see past the four rings on the bonnet, which is unfortunate (more so for them IMO).
I ended up going for a V12VS. On your perception of these: think of it as a brute in a well cut suit that can also do the GT thing. A car that can spin its rear wheels in fourth in the dry doesn’t quite fit the “full GT” tag (I’d say the Vanquish is the true GT car in that vintage of AM’s line up). With your budget you have the option of the 7s manual or the automated manual. Preference is personal.
Bottom line is that there aren’t really any dud cars in that lot. It comes down to what you like and want and which ones appeal to you. And it’s worth driving some of them to help you choose.
Serious question.. what is it you guys look for in a supercar when shopping? I’d imagine it’s more of the same?
I think the ultimate choice for me would be a 720s, for its stunning design, and that performance. Followed by a 600lt a bit more raw and agile for the early morning blasts. And still an AMG GTR the noise and road presence is pretty special and not sure why that is getting no votes considering the reviews seem to be pretty good!
However they are all probably out of reach.
Again thanks for the replies good to hear all opinions and experiences.
Just to add to the above re the cost of older cars - the last 3 service bills of my 2008 Ferrari were round figures from memory: 13k, 4K, 12k euros
. I would need to look it up, but I suspect I drove less than 10k km during those 3 years (but the car is currently at mid-70s km, so has done some over its life)
I suspect the next few years could be pretty much oil change only, but you never know for sure. Still on original brakes and clutch (or at least not changed during my 5 years ownership) as an example - so those two alone could add another 25k or so at some point.
and even if I had a warranty, I think none of the stuff would have been covered by it. So that is kind of a vote for a newer McLaren with a comprehensive warranty - you might lose some in depreciation, but at least the running costs should be more certain than say on a 599 or similar
. I would need to look it up, but I suspect I drove less than 10k km during those 3 years (but the car is currently at mid-70s km, so has done some over its life)
I suspect the next few years could be pretty much oil change only, but you never know for sure. Still on original brakes and clutch (or at least not changed during my 5 years ownership) as an example - so those two alone could add another 25k or so at some point.
and even if I had a warranty, I think none of the stuff would have been covered by it. So that is kind of a vote for a newer McLaren with a comprehensive warranty - you might lose some in depreciation, but at least the running costs should be more certain than say on a 599 or similar
likesachange said:
The answer is loose but surely pretty predictable.
Serious question.. what is it you guys look for in a supercar when shopping? I’d imagine it’s more of the same?
I think the ultimate choice for me would be a 720s, for its stunning design, and that performance. Followed by a 600lt a bit more raw and agile for the early morning blasts. And still an AMG GTR the noise and road presence is pretty special and not sure why that is getting no votes considering the reviews seem to be pretty good!
However they are all probably out of reach.
Again thanks for the replies good to hear all opinions and experiences.
I like the GTR - have had quite a few on track with me and I think they look and sound great (I have never driven one so can’t opine on that), they are fast too. Serious question.. what is it you guys look for in a supercar when shopping? I’d imagine it’s more of the same?
I think the ultimate choice for me would be a 720s, for its stunning design, and that performance. Followed by a 600lt a bit more raw and agile for the early morning blasts. And still an AMG GTR the noise and road presence is pretty special and not sure why that is getting no votes considering the reviews seem to be pretty good!
However they are all probably out of reach.
Again thanks for the replies good to hear all opinions and experiences.
I usually look for the car I most want to own for a specific type at that time. I generally buy cars with a view to never sell them again (so depreciation is less of a worry/consideration). I did sell a car this year, but that was the only time I knowingly bought a “compromise” as that car was not the one I wanted to own forever for the type (track car) and was not even the one I wanted to buy at the time of purchase / I just couldn’t find the one I wanted at a price I could afford.
The criteria are quite varied and mostly not really rational. For example outright performance is not really of all that much importance to me, it is more about other stuff such as the to me most special engine I can get with a manual transmission or I really need a Ferrari V12 in my life or I loved the look of the 997 RS when it was launched etc etc. - I usually decide in the moment without research (helps if you spend way too much time on pistonheads so you usually know way too much about a wide variety of cars anyway ...)
Edit: obviously all of the above is overridden by budget constraints, so it is always the best within the budget at the time
likesachange said:
The answer is loose but surely pretty predictable.
Serious question.. what is it you guys look for in a supercar when shopping? I’d imagine it’s more of the same?
With the caveats that everyone is different and that my so-called supercars aren’t really supercars…Serious question.. what is it you guys look for in a supercar when shopping? I’d imagine it’s more of the same?
First one was a 996 turbo, bought over ten years ago. I kept it for a couple of years. Being an 80s child, the turbo was one of The Big Four Top Trumps supercars of my childhood - although that had been the 930. I wanted something robust (no Ferrari), that I could afford (no AM or Lambo) that I could push in all weather (having come from an Audi).
It lasted a couple of years. I realised that it’s a cold thing: ruthlessly efficient 100% of the time and not really a car to get under your skin. The initial novelty/wow was certainly there but it never matured into anything more.
Second one was a V12VS four years ago. Who doesn’t like an Aston deep down? The Vantage design is second best looking of all modern Astons after the Vanquish. And it’s got a V12 crammed into a ridiculously compact package in a lairy colour. It’s a car that has worked it’s way seriously under my skin. It can be a proper handful when pushing that demands your attention and your respect; the grunt is savage; and it’s a lovely place to sit even when going nowhere in gridlocked traffic. And it turns heads in a good way. People like Astons.
The third one, which is definitely a pretender, is a GT4. Better looking than a modern 911, mid engined, manual, noisy in a good way, visceral, poised, balanced, and seriously quick in the dry (Cup 2s are not a tyre for wet days. Or cold days). And yet I’m still a little ambivalent about it. Again, the German efficiency thing is oddly cold…
The shortlist for the GT4 included a 360, an R8 V10 (I’ve had the V10 in a previous car and loved it) a 540/570/12C, a 911, and some others that I’ve forgotten now. In the end, much like with the Aston, I think I ended up choosing what I thought was the best looking one, with pure speed/badge/supercar labels being eclipsed by pure aesthetics. Weird, I know.
BlackWidow13 said:
With the caveats that everyone is different and that my so-called supercars aren’t really supercars…
First one was a 996 turbo, bought over ten years ago. I kept it for a couple of years. Being an 80s child, the turbo was one of The Big Four Top Trumps supercars of my childhood - although that had been the 930. I wanted something robust (no Ferrari), that I could afford (no AM or Lambo) that I could push in all weather (having come from an Audi).
It lasted a couple of years. I realised that it’s a cold thing: ruthlessly efficient 100% of the time and not really a car to get under your skin. The initial novelty/wow was certainly there but it never matured into anything more.
Second one was a V12VS four years ago. Who doesn’t like an Aston deep down? The Vantage design is second best looking of all modern Astons after the Vanquish. And it’s got a V12 crammed into a ridiculously compact package in a lairy colour. It’s a car that has worked it’s way seriously under my skin. It can be a proper handful when pushing that demands your attention and your respect; the grunt is savage; and it’s a lovely place to sit even when going nowhere in gridlocked traffic. And it turns heads in a good way. People like Astons.
The third one, which is definitely a pretender, is a GT4. Better looking than a modern 911, mid engined, manual, noisy in a good way, visceral, poised, balanced, and seriously quick in the dry (Cup 2s are not a tyre for wet days. Or cold days). And yet I’m still a little ambivalent about it. Again, the German efficiency thing is oddly cold…
The shortlist for the GT4 included a 360, an R8 V10 (I’ve had the V10 in a previous car and loved it) a 540/570/12C, a 911, and some others that I’ve forgotten now. In the end, much like with the Aston, I think I ended up choosing what I thought was the best looking one, with pure speed/badge/supercar labels being eclipsed by pure aesthetics. Weird, I know.
I do like the GT4 but I think I would have to go for an earlier 2014 GT3, I am just not clued up with Porsche's as in spec and desirable options. And then we are back into Mclaren territory.. First one was a 996 turbo, bought over ten years ago. I kept it for a couple of years. Being an 80s child, the turbo was one of The Big Four Top Trumps supercars of my childhood - although that had been the 930. I wanted something robust (no Ferrari), that I could afford (no AM or Lambo) that I could push in all weather (having come from an Audi).
It lasted a couple of years. I realised that it’s a cold thing: ruthlessly efficient 100% of the time and not really a car to get under your skin. The initial novelty/wow was certainly there but it never matured into anything more.
Second one was a V12VS four years ago. Who doesn’t like an Aston deep down? The Vantage design is second best looking of all modern Astons after the Vanquish. And it’s got a V12 crammed into a ridiculously compact package in a lairy colour. It’s a car that has worked it’s way seriously under my skin. It can be a proper handful when pushing that demands your attention and your respect; the grunt is savage; and it’s a lovely place to sit even when going nowhere in gridlocked traffic. And it turns heads in a good way. People like Astons.
The third one, which is definitely a pretender, is a GT4. Better looking than a modern 911, mid engined, manual, noisy in a good way, visceral, poised, balanced, and seriously quick in the dry (Cup 2s are not a tyre for wet days. Or cold days). And yet I’m still a little ambivalent about it. Again, the German efficiency thing is oddly cold…
The shortlist for the GT4 included a 360, an R8 V10 (I’ve had the V10 in a previous car and loved it) a 540/570/12C, a 911, and some others that I’ve forgotten now. In the end, much like with the Aston, I think I ended up choosing what I thought was the best looking one, with pure speed/badge/supercar labels being eclipsed by pure aesthetics. Weird, I know.
MDL111 said:
Left field idea - how about a Sagaris
Not for me. I Loved my Tuscan 2S so much, I'd rather another one of those and pocket the change. Shared same engine, could take roof off and was epic across Europe.A good friend has just sold his Yellow one and it just never excited me.
likesachange said:
Not for me. I Loved my Tuscan 2S so much, I'd rather another one of those and pocket the change. Shared same engine, could take roof off and was epic across Europe.
A good friend has just sold his Yellow one and it just never excited me.
Wholly agree. Sagaris never really seemed any faster or better handling than Tuscans or T350’s half the price. A good friend has just sold his Yellow one and it just never excited me.
likesachange said:
I do like the GT4 but I think I would have to go for an earlier 2014 GT3, I am just not clued up with Porsche's as in spec and desirable options. And then we are back into Mclaren territory..
The Porsche option maze is ridiculous. And some of those early 991 GT3 had their engines replaced by Porsche under warranty, and I was a bit put off trying to navigate that pickle. My guess is that with your history of Lotus/Ariel, and assuming you liked them, a Mclaren will tick all your boxes. The thing that put me off was the apparently variable reliability (though we have a Range Rover that’s been almost perfect for ten years, so I ought to be able to take reliability scares with a pinch of salt) and the warranty cost. I tend not to bother with warranties and prefer to self-insure but the absence of indies and general cost of Mclaren fixes persuaded me that a warranty would be a necessary part of Mclaren ownership.
As for which one, I probably would have gone for the 12C. I prefer the front end exterior styling of it to the later 650/540/570 cars, and you get the super sport trick suspension and air braking. Certainly when I was looking, pre covid, Mclarens looked like a lot of car for the money (which cuts both ways, of course).
BlackWidow13 said:
My guess is that with your history of Lotus/Ariel, and assuming you liked them, a Mclaren will tick all your boxes.
I think it's worth trying to get a drive in a McLaren - any McLaren - before you decide. The steering feedback is something else. I think there's a good chance you'll either (a) decide you definitely want one or (b) decide you definitely don't want one based on a 30-45 minute drive on half-decent roads. Ie it could clarify your thinking fairly quickly.In terms of values, you mention buying this coming winter, I feel there's a good chance that any looming economic shock will either have struck or dissipated by then, so the worst-case depreciation risk may well be alleviated - either the prices will have already crashed by Jan/Feb, or it'll have become clear they're not that likely to. Either way it could be a good time to buy and feel reasonably confident in ongoing residuals.
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