RE: F430 Barred from USA?
Discussion
Wheelman, you seem to be one of the more rational posters here, but I suspect even you haven't driven the latest American cars (compared to some who've posted who probably never have driven any American car). The HHR, for example, is no more an SUV than the PT Cruiser is. They're about the same size, both front drivers, etc. The initial quality pleasantly suprised me, and as for "retro" styling, I don't think Jaguar has broken any fresh ground there...and we needn't talk about quality/reliablity there...or what Ford ownership means to that company's nationality. And the less said about Bentley and Rolls-Royce the better, eh?
The remark about longevity is fair, but we won't know that for a few years. But after the Koreans proved their worth, U.S. sales have soared from 90k to flirting with 400k. Lower resale prices of American cars can be fixed only with time.
To say that a car has to have overhead cams to be "technologically advanced" is hogwash. The new GM 3.9 V-6 had push-rods (the call it, LOL, cam-in-block), but it also has variable valve timing and variable fuel injection. And this engine is lighter and more compact than any DOHC mill. And someone said leaf springs!? Name one car.
I'll decline any p!ss!ng match over politics here. We've always considered Great Britain an ally except for several spots of unpleasantness about 200yrs ago. However, if you'd rather cast your lot with the French, who am I to object?
The remark about longevity is fair, but we won't know that for a few years. But after the Koreans proved their worth, U.S. sales have soared from 90k to flirting with 400k. Lower resale prices of American cars can be fixed only with time.
To say that a car has to have overhead cams to be "technologically advanced" is hogwash. The new GM 3.9 V-6 had push-rods (the call it, LOL, cam-in-block), but it also has variable valve timing and variable fuel injection. And this engine is lighter and more compact than any DOHC mill. And someone said leaf springs!? Name one car.
I'll decline any p!ss!ng match over politics here. We've always considered Great Britain an ally except for several spots of unpleasantness about 200yrs ago. However, if you'd rather cast your lot with the French, who am I to object?
mutant_matt said:
Surely that spot of unpleasantness 200 years ago was between the British, and the British? 
Well, it was until January 29, 1774, when Alexander Wedderburn, then solicitor general, gave Benjamin Franklin a thorough dressing down in the Cockpit, calling him a liar, thief and worse, much to the delight of others in attendance. Franklin had been a proponent of reconciliation between Parliament and the American colonies, and wanted for citizens of the American colonies only the rights of Englishmen. But as the British didn't consider him to be British, while should he. It's said that Franklin went into the Cockpit British, but came out American. Franklin was a generation older than Adams, Jefferson, Washington, et al., so when he went to the side of "Independency," the events of July 4, 1776 were inevitable.
Other than than family spat of 1812-1814, concluded satisfactorily to both parties, the fortunes of the "Anglosphere" have largely been wedded, in my opinion even unto today.
Now, can't we all get back to playing with cars?
Politics or no politics, this is just some bureaucrat being silly. The only reason this bothers me is that if its followed up Ferrari is going to be in big financial trouble because the US must be its biggest market. As for ferrari not selling in america any more, tough luck for them, since when have they appreciated a car that can go fast in a corner as well as a straight line? Just means more for us... If Ferrari can stay afloat...
runnersp said:
since when have they appreciated a car that can go fast in a corner as well as a straight line? Just means more for us... If Ferrari can stay afloat...
Ever since we bought MGs, Triumphs, Jaguars...
In all fairness, however, if you've ever been to the American midwest, you'll understand that there are no corners, just straight lines with square intersections. It can be awfully hard to be a sports car fan in central Illinois. You get your g-force jollies where you can, even if only a quarter mile at a time.
Be careful of stereotypes. It's not the American enthusiasts who want to keep the car out of the country. It's some bureaucratic ninny.
And by the way, yes, we like women with "airbags." You mean to say Brits don't?
jmatras said:
And this engine is lighter and more compact than any DOHC mill. And someone said leaf springs!? Name one car.
Oh, er, Corvette?
But you're right, most US cars have evolved from leaf springs to 'air' springs (?) in modelyear 2004 (as opposed to 1904).
Oh, and btw, Ferrari is not best of British, there is this small piece of land east of London called Europe. In a small town there about 120 years ago, they invented something called the mo-tor-car. A few hundred km south of that about 40 years later, some other guys invented the su-per-car. And -this is the amazing part- they did so without using pushrods or NOS. Go figure, those cheeky rascals eh?
errek72 said:
And this engine is lighter and more compact than any DOHC mill. And someone said leaf springs!? Name one car.
Oh, er, Corvette?
But you're right, most US cars have evolved from leaf springs to 'air' springs (?) in modelyear 2004 (as opposed to 1904).
Oh, and btw, Ferrari is not best of British, there is this small piece of land east of London called Europe. In a small town there about 120 years ago, they invented something called the mo-tor-car. A few hundred km south of that about 40 years later, some other guys invented the su-per-car. And -this is the amazing part- they did so without using pushrods or NOS. Go figure, those cheeky rascals eh?
I was going to say Corvette as well.
What does the Ford Crown Victoria have?
cdp said:
What does the Ford Crown Victoria have?
For what it's worth, 4-bar link solid axle, Watts link, coil springs, monotube shocks, optional load-leveling air springs and stabilizer bar.
Hey, I love Ferraris, and I've driven 'em with live axles on leaf springs. I've also driven the 360 Modena a couple of years back. I'd really like to see them still come into the country. It's our Ministry of Silly Walks that says it won't allow it.
Also: My references to British cars--which I've enjoyed driving but never owned--was only to suggest that someone over here must like to go around corners. Remember that guy Shelby who took a certain British sports car (with the transverse front leaf spring) and dropped a Ford V-8 in it.
And yeah, Americans know what Yurrup is. Most of our parents, grandparents, etc., left there...or England...voluntarily. Only went back, for the most part, wearing olive drab.
Trivia: First automobile race in the U.S. was held on Thanksgiving Day (end of November), 1984, in six inches of slushy snow. Several Benz mo-tor-cars were entered. A homebuilt American car won.
jmatras said:
Trivia: First automobile race in the U.S. was held on Thanksgiving Day (end of November), 1984, in six inches of slushy snow. Several Benz mo-tor-cars were entered. A homebuilt American car won.
Hmm, history is not my stong point but I rather think it might have been a little earlier than that ...
jmatras said:
Trivia: First automobile race in the U.S. was held on Thanksgiving Day (end of November), 1984, in six inches of slushy snow. Several Benz mo-tor-cars were entered. A homebuilt American car won.
You meant to type November 28, 1895 which was won by a Duryea or something like that. Fair enough, but I really don't think you want a trump cards match Europe vs US on international race wins since then.
I guess the point is that where Europe is churning out one advancement after the other (carwise), the US unleashes monstrocities like
'the fast and the 
furious' via its hollywood propaganda machine, hideous Lincoln Navigators with bling rims and on top of that they kick out Ferrari because the airbags are too small?! You might not be aware of it -and given the little attention non-us news gets in your media, who can blame you- but the US has heavily influenced European politics and some of us fear that this is the tip of the political-correct iceberg, and the beginning of the end of progress and fun in cars.
But as Tiny said, I'd take my hat off to you sir (if I had one) for being able to take a jest. And you do seem to know your car history.
The olive drab thing has been cancelled out long ago when you decided to unleash rap culture and MTV on us, btw.
LongQ said:
Trivia: First automobile race in the U.S. was held on Thanksgiving Day (end of November), 1984, in six inches of slushy snow. Several Benz mo-tor-cars were entered. A homebuilt American car won.
Hmm, history is not my stong point but I rather think it might have been a little earlier than that ...
Uh, I'm a Dyslexic-American?
Yes, it was a Duryea and you're right on the year. As far as match races goes, it's a matter of horses for courses...literally. In the early 20th century, Europe had better highways than did America, so American racing used the horse racing track as its venue. And like horse racing, American circle track racing goes counterclockwise. But even here, road racing circuits run clockwise.
But you can't hold us all responsible for rap, MTV and Hollywood, just like we can't hold all of you responsible for the Spice Girls and David Beckham naming his son "Brooklyn." I do find it embarrassing, however, to know that "Desperate Housewives" is being shown in China.
As to technology, I think that mechanical devices "evolve" to match their environment. Thus in the United States we had the 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner 426 Hemi, while in Old Blighty you have, um, the Reliant Robin.
And you, sir, have a good humour. I have a good humor!
But you can't hold us all responsible for rap, MTV and Hollywood, just like we can't hold all of you responsible for the Spice Girls and David Beckham naming his son "Brooklyn." I do find it embarrassing, however, to know that "Desperate Housewives" is being shown in China.
As to technology, I think that mechanical devices "evolve" to match their environment. Thus in the United States we had the 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner 426 Hemi, while in Old Blighty you have, um, the Reliant Robin.
And you, sir, have a good humour. I have a good humor!
Peter Ward said:
I think it's because the authorities know that many people don't wear seatbelts that they put such a focus on airbags. In Europe we know they are "secondary restraint" ("SRS"
That is no longer true, although it was the case several years ago. My 2004 (American Car) has a "supplemental" restraint airbag.
I believe that all fifty states now require seat belts. The laws do vary as some require all passengers to wear them, and some just the front occupants.
Regardless, this is just another case of over bearing governments sticking their nose in everyone's business. This is why I could not import my TVR when I moved back to the USA in 2003. #@$@#%^%#&$%*&
thirsty said:
[quote=Peter Ward]I think it's because the authorities know that many people don't wear seatbelts that they put such a focus on airbags. In Europe we know they are "secondary restraint" ("SRS"
That is no longer true, although it was the case several years ago. My 2004 (American Car) has a "supplemental" restraint airbag.
[quote]
The original concept was to be a "passive restraint," and even the ninnies at the Insurance Institue for Silly, uh, Highway Safety said that the increased cost of airbags would be offset by eliminating seatbelts! This was in 1972, when great behemoths of "safety concept cars" were sent careening into each other.
I think it may have been after some degree of sanity, as well as the legal liability of saying that one didn't need to wear seatbelts, changed the terminology to SRS. I don't know when that happened, but surely back into the Eighties. We're not all that retrograde over here.
therossatron said:
And someone said leaf springs!? Name one car.
Mustang?
Ouch, you fell for it.
The Mustang has had leaf springs for the last fourthousend years, but the latest version went hyper-tech and now has...wait for it...coil springs.
Imagine the shockwaves that sent through Modena and Weissach
/sarcasm mode off
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff