Are 348's really thought of as 'that bad'?!

[derin100]

Firstly an apology I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to Ferraris. I've spend the last 25 years as a dyed-in-the-wool BMW enthusiast:

However, a combination of 'every schoolboy's dream' and having owned nearly every BMW I ever wanted to own are now conspiring to make me think "Ferrari?"

I currently have in my collection of BMWs a late 840Ci Sport very similar in appearance to two I've previous had please see on my website here:

www.bmwclassics.co.uk/about/index.html

And here:

www.bmwclassics.co.uk/840cisport02/index.html

I don't have any photos of this car yet but it only has a genuine 24K miles on the clock and I've had several fairly substantial offers for this car based on the low mileage. Certainly enough to take me into 348 territory.

I've done a bit of reading (mainly on this forum) and my impression is that the consensus seems to be that the 355 is a quantum leap over the 348. However, I don't want to spend the kind of money a 355 would cost and actually I really do prefer the 'look' of the 348.

Last week I was having my E30 M3 serviced at a well-known and respected M3 specialist in the Midlands. I know the owner quite well and knew he'd personally owned a 348 himself in the past so asked him for his opinion. Whilst it wouldn't be appropriate (especially on a Sunday!) to repeat here verbatim what he said about them ....It wasn't exactly complimentary!!!

I wasn't looking to buy one to 'use' more to have in the garage and just enjoy driving on 'special days'. What I don't want to do is to buy a model which people even within Ferrari circles would look upon disparagingly and hence end up with a car that wasn't a) a pleasure to drive and b) a poor investment in terms of re-sale if that day came i.e I don't want to have a car that would always be a struggle to sell because even Ferrari-people don't want them.

What are the opinions here for and against the 348 givng my above position?

Many thanks in advance.

[fbloke]

Pure opinion this comment but I think both cars are stunning. I have a 355 and next to a 348 I think it comes down to personal choice and budget. Styles are similar. At the end of the day if you want and can get a Ferrari then do it. I've had mine a few months now and as a result I have met lots of other Ferrari owners and I have never heard anybody slag off any other Ferrari.

Just do it

[dealmaker]

They arent just "that bad", they're "really, really bad"!

I have driven a few - first one was when they were out for about a year or two - local Ferrari dealer was keen to prise me out of my 964RS and into the 348 - he lent me one for a full afternoon - I took it back after about 30 minutes - walked away laughing - it was slow, didnt handle and felt like it was put together by a bunch of primary school kids high on blue smarties. I've driven a few since and every one has been the same.

[pwig]

dealmaker said:

They arent just "that bad", they're "really, really bad"!

I have driven a few - first one was when they were out for about a year or two - local Ferrari dealer was keen to prise me out of my 964RS and into the 348 - he lent me one for a full afternoon - I took it back after about 30 minutes - walked away laughing - it was slow, didnt handle and felt like it was put together by a bunch of primary school kids high on blue smarties. I've driven a few since and every one has been the same.

Well that's that done then

[nickster]

My experience completely contrary to dealmakers really (so no help to you at all).

Handled beautifully,dont know if that was because it had been lowered.
Chassis felt sublime,very rewarding drive,had to concentrate on what I was doing.

Felt alot faster than it probably was,due in part to decat tubi.

My car was 10 years old,so had probably had a shed load spent on it by previous owners.
Completely trouble free motoring for me.

Did 900 miles in a day once,loved every minute of it.

Got a 360 for my next car,which I didnt like as much as the 348.

Edited by nickster on Sunday 23 July 16:49

[derin100]

Hehehe...I just returned to my computer about to reply to 'fbloke' and say: "Maybe you've restored my enthusiasm/optimism about getting a 348..." When I read your assessment 'dealmaker' Yours is a little more along the lines of my M3 Specialist(though with somewhat more restrained and less 'colourful' language!).

I suppose one thing I could do is go and see a couple; get up close and personal with one and maybe if I'm lucky someone would actually let me have a drive?

I guess what I shouldn't do is sell my low mileage BMW 840Ci Sport first...then find out that I really don't like the 348 because in relation to my 840 as they say at ASDA..."When it's gone; it's gone!" It's not going to be the sort of car I could easily replace.

So the poll is running at 50%:50% thus far!

[derin100]

Just read your post Nickster!

[angelis]

dealmaker said:

They arent just "that bad", they're "really, really bad"!

I have driven a few - first one was when they were out for about a year or two - local Ferrari dealer was keen to prise me out of my 964RS and into the 348 - he lent me one for a full afternoon - I took it back after about 30 minutes - walked away laughing - it was slow, didnt handle and felt like it was put together by a bunch of primary school kids high on blue smarties. I've driven a few since and every one has been the same.

Have to strongly disagree with dealmaker on this one.

Now let's take each of his negative points separately. Just to remind you, I have a 348 GTB, but will try and stay as neutral as possible.

dealmaker said:

felt like it was put together by a bunch of primary school kids high on blue smarties. I've driven a few since and every one has been the same.

The 348 was rushed into production and the early ones did have reliability & build quality problems. However, during it's production life the 348 was fettled and upgraded by the factory resulting in a significant improvements.

My 348 is 12 years old and does'nt rattle and feels solid throughout, but it is a 1994 model and one of the last ones built. I've been in a few others and have'nt noticed any build quality problems.

dealmaker said:

it was slow

0-60 in 5.6 (5.3 for the spiders/GTB/GTS) secs with a top speed of over 170mph. Not exactly slow is it and remember it was launched in 1989.

I've raced it in a straight line against an Elise 111R and was ahead at 60 mph and then the 348 just started to pull away. So it's faster than an Elise in a straight line. (Although the Elise did only have 1,000 miles on the clock so perhaps was'nt fully 100% run in???)

dealmaker said:

didnt handle

There's been a lot of talk about the 348's bad handling. It's largely agreed that the early 348's did'nt handle as well as they could have. At the limit it could catch the driver out, but let's face it, you'd be crazy to drive that fast on the public roads.

But handling problems it did have and the Factory made a few modifications to the suspension during its production life in order to resolve it.

Using the Elise comparison again, both cars were driven on an airfield circuit by race instructor Andy Walsh and he posted identical times in both cars. Not bad huh! As far as an Elise on a small circuit!!!!

On a high speed corner, the Elise has a snappy oversteer, while the 348 was more progressive. My 348 tended to understeer, which iw as told was due to the older front tyres.

So bad handling...???

What if I said the 348 handled better than an NSX. OK OK...stop laughthing and read this piece from an Autocar group test.

"But the further we traveled and the hard we drove in France, the more special, the more unique the (348) Ferrari felt. We argued long and hard over which of the two made the best noise under full throttle, although no one disputed the fact that the NSX was more refined overall and had vastly superior gearchange. But ultimately this is as much the Honda's problem as it is its strength. Because it is so well honed as an all-rounder, so easy to live with, it misses out on that last 10 per cent of pure, raw thoroughbred sports car appeal that makes the Ferrari such a deliciously rich experience.

Partly it is the steering; the NSX's is very good, the 348's exquisite. And partly it is the extra sharpness of the Ferrari's chassis, which is that crucial fraction more responsive to your inputs than not only the NSX but also any other supercar this side of £100,000 we can think of.

Also, when the day is through and you switch off, climb out and glance over your left shoulder on your way up to the front door, the Ferrari will stop you dead in your tracks and force you to stand and stare in awe of its almost sexual beauty. And it'll happen every time you park it. In the Honda you'll probably just smile, then put the key in the lock and close the door behind you. That's enough to justify the extra £17,000 on its own."

www.lotusespritworld.com/ERoadtests/S4_autocar_July93.html


And here's what Jeremy Clarkson had to say about it at the time....

"Should the man who wants to spend £76,000 on a motor car buy a 348
tb? The answer is yes, yes and yes a thousand times.........if the car had been good, or even very good, that would have been enough, but the car is, in fact, a sensation. it makes a laughting stock out of the Honda NSX, and, as far as the BMW 850 is concerned, well, this is like watching one of those nature programs where a whale eats a plankton."


So, to summarise...... most people who critice the 348 don't really know anything about the car and have'nt driven it properly. If you want to find out what owners really think, you need to go to Ferarri dedoicated forums like Fchat or Club Scuderia. here's recent thread on Club Scuderia discussing the 348 and why people criticise it. www.fcars.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7139



I've had mine for exatly 1 year now. It's only let me down once and that was due to a sticky thermostat. If I had the additional funds at the time of purchase I may have got a 355 as it is a better car, but better only in the sense that the 430 is a better car than the 360 and a 328 better than a 308.

Oh and the 355 is not a quantum leap over the 348. Some would even argue that the 355 is a leap back in driver satisfaction as it has a more racecar/go kart type feel to it in comparison to the power steering feel of the 355.

I've also driven a 360 recently with the intention to upgrade. Sure it was faster, but it just did'nt feel as good to drive as the 348. To me it felt detached and reminded me of driving an XJR jaguar. I'm not saying it's a bad car, on the contrary it's a great car... but I've become used to the raw aspect of the 348. No power steering, traction control etc.

Now if you're looking for a good 348, you're going to have a hard time. There are'nt many good ones around. Most have been neglected or clocked. You also have to remember that these cars are now between 12 and 17 years old, so things need replacing. I've already had my dampers refurbished and will be refurbing the rads next. With the amount of money you'll end up spending in the long term, you could buy a 355, but it won't be a good one and the 355's will cost a lot more £££ to fix in the long term as well.

If you want to have a 360 killer... you could alwats still on a Koenig twin turbo sytem which will give you 520bhp... for only.... £25,000!!!!

[AARONM3]

I've had the pleasure of driving a couple of different 348's- each for a week at the time so not exactly a long-term ownership opinion but I thought they were both thoroughly decent cars and I put in a decent amount of miles.

The handling is not as user-friendly as newer models but the only couple of times I felt a bit like things could go wrong was when I was operating beyond my own limits (very briefly- got carried away with the engine note so kept it pinned a couple of times when I should have eased off a tad), the brakes were absolutely terrific and you can't argue with the click-clack of a decent Ferrai manual gate IMHO. I seem to recall that one had a hydraulically assisted clutch and one didn't and the latter was a little bit harder work... ?

I'm 26 years old so this was only about a year ago- I know one was a H-plate but I'm not sure about the other. Since then I've driven the F430 and obviously that's a different league but I still recall the 348's with fondness.

[traxx]

There is one very important thing to remember about the comments regarding 348s on here and CS-fcars/fchat


That is that most of negative ones are an attempt to wind-up Angelis
Nothing wrong with the car at all

[angelis]

traxx said:

That is that most of negative ones are an attempt to wind-up Angelis
Nothing wrong with the car at all

Attempt being the operative word.

[derin100]

Thank you all!
I'm very grateful for all the advice and opinions...Thanks Angelis for such a detailed response. I think this has put the possibility of a 348 back on my radar! All of this assumes, of course, I finish preparing the BMW 840Ci Sport, then still decide to go ahead and sell...and that I get a good price for it!!! Otherwise my wife will put a stop to any notions of a 348!

Those straightline performance figures are easily ample enough for me. I never drive on tracks so I'm sure the handling capabilities are more than enough for me on a public road too...probably way beyond my abilites as a driver.

I guess some of the opinions I've read about the 355 being 'better' than the 348 in the same way the 348 is 'better' than the 328 etc are just a case of observations on the natural evolution of cars. I only know about BMWs but the same could (and is said about M3's). Of course, as the various models of M3s have evolved the newer have obviously always been 'better' in one sense. They may be faster and be able to post quicker laptimes etc but that doesn't necessarily mean they give the driver anymore pleasure or involvement? For example, I own this:

www.bmwclassics.co.uk/page_m3.html

There's no way I could keep up with a modern M3 on a public road in that...but I only drive it for 'fun' and I know which I'd have more 'fun' in.

The comment about "...getting out and looking over your left shoulder etc etc..." is very valid! I really do like the look of the 348!

I'm surprised that you reckon many 348's have been clocked!?! :O

When and if I start a serious search I'll have to come back and get some more advice on what to look for etc...

Realistically, without any unforseen mishaps what can I expect to have to pay annually on routine maintenance and upkeep if the car were driven VERY sparingly? I have a couple of BMWs in the garage that I probably haven't even put 1000 miles on in the last year and I'd probably be as miserly (if not more so)with a Ferrari.

Once again, many thanks all!

[derin100]

PHEW!...Just read all 10 pages of that link on Club Scuderia!

One thing I hadn't even thought about...I'm 6'2".....

[angelis]

derin100 said:

I'm surprised that you reckon many 348's have been clocked!?! :O

Actually it's a lot of variosu ferari's that have been clocked, but you'll never know.

Best thing to do is have a full PPI done on any 348 you're considering. Don't worry if there's a lot of owners as that's quite common.

Running costs are'nt that bad, as long as nothing breaks on the car. A few cost to consider:

- Sports exhaust system (beleive me you'll want this)= £1,200 - £2,000.

- Dampers refurbished = £60 each from Bilstein. ALthough very few people actually have anything done until a damper starts leaking, Bilstein recomend a refurb every 6 years.

- Repainting front & C pillars (optional)= £1,000 - £2,000. It's a low car, so you'll end up getting teh front peppered with stone chips. So a respray every few years for cosmetic reasons. The paint at the C pillar will flake and crack. Probably every 3 years it needs painting.

- Electrics = £??? Always something going wrong, but if driven regularly you'll have few problems. Biggest cost will be the A/C unit that might die. You can have it refurbed for £250 or buy a brand new one for US$2,100. Not a major worry though.

- Servicing = Costs here www.verdiferrari.biz/servicing.htm Biggest cost is the cambet change every 3 years.

You'll have things go wrong for sure, they are Ferrai's after all. However, with various forums, you're only a mouse click away from getting help and advice. I've saved loads of money by getting tips and advice from fchat and club scuderia.

Edited by angelis on Sunday 23 July 22:09

[wicked1]

I recently drove a 348GTC, and what a car. I do love the 355 to drive but i struggled to find a reason not to want one. It is a bit rare and rather unusual but worth the hunting out

Good luck

[derin100]

Hmmm...those servicing costs aren't totally outrageous at all are they...thanks.

[pdavison]

I recently bought a 348GTC and it is an amazing car, it handles superbly (might be due to the fact the GTC is one of the last of the 348 series), the performance is fantastic & you will never beat the feeling of driving your first Ferrari. I was actually looking for a 355 but decided the GTC was such a rare car I couldn't resist and I also prefer the looks as well!

I think most the points have been covered here on what to look for, but I will echo the advice to have an inspection done before you buy.

Happy hunting!

[POORCARDEALER]

Get a 328, its prettier, check u fit in though

[burriana]

Derin - check this thread out...

[url]www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=259176[url]

And I'm 6'2" and 348s are no problem!

[chrisx666]

derin100 said:

I'm surprised that you reckon many 348's have been clocked!?! :O

I didn't see any that appeared to be clocked in the traditional sense (winding back..) when I was looking - I only viewed cars with reasonable history. BUT I did suspect that the mileage on a couple was substantially less than the condition of the car indicated. This lead me to think that maybe the speedo had become 'disconnected' for periods between services. This could apply to any car where low mileage attracts a high premium. Buy on condition rather than indicated mileage IMO.