RE: Can I borrow a Veyron again, please?
Discussion
"My point is that when reviewing a car as amazing and one off as this... nothing should be compared to it until a manufacturer creates a car that has similar power output/weight etc."
like a Koenigsegg? (imagine a 4wd Koenigsegg, never happen, but would be amazing), as VW had so much trouble with cooling why didn't they go with bio fuel, is't it supposed to burn cooler?
like a Koenigsegg? (imagine a 4wd Koenigsegg, never happen, but would be amazing), as VW had so much trouble with cooling why didn't they go with bio fuel, is't it supposed to burn cooler?
Fair enough - there aren't alot of cars knocking about with near on 1k-bhp. But you do need a reference point, and a well-driven 997 GT3 RS is as good as any. As Steve Sutcliffe was driving the pants off the Porker through the bends, a car less suited (in terms of weight anyway) was keeping it in check without raising a sweat.
So ignoring the power differential, the Veyron had all the Porsches moves covered. From a technical point of view, that's impressive. As oft said 'competence is never dull on a demanding road' but obviously the objective isn't as important as the subjective in terms of sports and supercars.
As an engineer, I think it is a staggering achievement. But as a lover of driving, I was resigned to thinking they might have sacrificed too much to achieve that step-change from super-to-hypercar. So the fact the Veyron engaged and entertained as it went about its business is very heartening.
So ignoring the power differential, the Veyron had all the Porsches moves covered. From a technical point of view, that's impressive. As oft said 'competence is never dull on a demanding road' but obviously the objective isn't as important as the subjective in terms of sports and supercars.
As an engineer, I think it is a staggering achievement. But as a lover of driving, I was resigned to thinking they might have sacrificed too much to achieve that step-change from super-to-hypercar. So the fact the Veyron engaged and entertained as it went about its business is very heartening.
val said:
Yeah right...
Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
Sorry mate, your talking out of your arse.Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
did you read this bit at all?
"How about any other car/driving etc experience that is relevant?
Three seasons as a works driver in TVR Tuscan Challenge (1998, 1999, 2000; 12 podiums, 2 poles and 3 race wins in 2000).
BTCC with Lexus in 2001; took class pole at 2000 Nurburgring 24h; raced for Ford junior DTM team at 2002 Nurburgring 24h. 2nd in first ever race – Caterham road sports.
Driven and road tested the following road cars for Autocar; McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220, Jaguar XJ220 C, Porsche 911 GT1, Ferrari F40, Bugatti Veyron, to name just a few.
Driven and track tested the following competition cars for Autocar & Autosport; Toyota Corolla WRC, Ford focus WRC, Audi R8 Le Mans wining car, Jaguar R3 F1 car, Tyrrell 005 F1 car, Porsche 911 GT1 Le Mans winner, BMW M3 GTR race car. "
I think that classifies Sutters as a proper driver, Pole at the 'Ring and driving as a works driver and winning Tuscan races isn't the easiest thing to do, I'm sure you'll agree.
Edited by TIGA84 on Friday 15th June 12:18
val said:
Yeah right...
Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
I knew it! I knew some idiot would say something like this almost straight away and I was wondering how long it would take for the inevitable.Even after Sutters (who really can drive, by the way) has directly compared it to one of the great drivers' cars of the moment, some armchair racer has to say that he's talking rubbish.
Jesus. Some people are just tossers.
I am really glad to see a review of a head to head with the Veyron. Most of the other articles don't talk about the car on the road, where let's face it most Veyron drives are going to use their cars. I don't know if the GT3 RS is the best car for this comparison, but it sure is a fast car around corners and shows just how great of a car the Veyron is. Man I want one, maybe the wife will let me get one....it is that or a new house...I know which one I am going for.
lingus75 said:
val said:
Yeah right...
Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
Bell, and quite literally end.Put a proper driver in GT3 and it will spank this journo-boy so hard he'll cry for his mommy.
2 tonne car cant be a sports car by the laws of physics.
And I realise this won't be well received but I have to question it... If the veyron is so outrageously quicker than any other road car. Why are they so keen to avoid any journo taking it on a race circuit and doing a proper laptime against any other car?? They are lending the veyron to anyone who puts there hand up and asks, yet only for straight line runs, or twisty back roads. I havent seen one article of it on a track compared against something else. (Watch me get corrected in 30seconds) Porsche, Corvette and every other manufacturer always allows this.
In truth a very powerful car will always outperform a well balanced car on a twisty road.
I guess a definitive answer would be the trackday that flemke went on in his Mclaren and a veyron was there. He would probably be able to give us a half decent answer as to how quick the car really was.
Great article. I am seriously thinking of taking the plunge and going for a Veyron next year , God willing. But i seem to have this feeling that this car was created as the ULTIMATE 911 turbo?! before , i get slandered , look at the basics of the car: Small , compact , ok wide! , 4WD , not 2 but 4 turbo's , all weather supercar ,German , refined and smooth , etc. Do you think that, by removing the cachet of the Veyron , that an absurdly powerfull 997TT , say at 650bhp , would'nt offer at least 90% of what the Veyron is capable of? Maybe one would , reply that it's that elusive, exclusive 10% that makes the Veyon what it is and so out of reach , or imcomparable to others? what are your thoughts ? Sal..
To smash a 997 GT3 RS out of the ball park on a twisty road without trying is just staggering. It must come as such a disappointment that after driving a Veyron, future road tests will surely be an anti-climax. I, like most people, just can't comprehend how good this car must be. Excellent write up.
.. very odd comparison.
1000 vs 420? bhp
Turbo vs N/A
Road Setup vs Track Setup
4WD vs 2WD
A better 'comparison' would have been the 997 Turbo - then at least we would have had turbo vs turbo, road setup vs road setup, 4WD vs 4WD - still would have had 500-600 bhp difference mind you ..
I've no doubt the Veyron is a monster but this article doesn't put it into 'perspective' for me personally ..
1000 vs 420? bhp
Turbo vs N/A
Road Setup vs Track Setup
4WD vs 2WD
A better 'comparison' would have been the 997 Turbo - then at least we would have had turbo vs turbo, road setup vs road setup, 4WD vs 4WD - still would have had 500-600 bhp difference mind you ..
I've no doubt the Veyron is a monster but this article doesn't put it into 'perspective' for me personally ..
sal430 said:
Great article. I am seriously thinking of taking the plunge and going for a Veyron next year , God willing. But i seem to have this feeling that this car was created as the ULTIMATE 911 turbo?! before , i get slandered , look at the basics of the car: Small , compact , ok wide! , 4WD , not 2 but 4 turbo's , all weather supercar ,German , refined and smooth , etc. Do you think that, by removing the cachet of the Veyron , that an absurdly powerfull 997TT , say at 650bhp , would'nt offer at least 90% of what the Veyron is capable of? Maybe one would , reply that it's that elusive, exclusive 10% that makes the Veyon what it is and so out of reach , or imcomparable to others? what are your thoughts ? Sal..
Firstly SAL, fair play on the contemplation!! I think that your 90% comment is valid. But you can say a Lotus Elise provides 90% of what an NSX provides too. Tis the law of decreasing marginal returns I suppose.... so it isn't slander IMO. Secondly, it being an úber-997TT is also probably right - the photo in the article showing a tiny smear of tail out is the first I've seen, and probably is the sum of £££££ + the height of the cars limits which will rarely be exceeded for fear of what lies beyond. So do you like the 997TT? Or would you prefer a GT3RS? We all have tick boxes of cars we want, and are realistically aspirational. they don't always make sense either! So if the Veyron is a tick, and ya have the means, go tick it! You'd hardly regret it :-)
From your own perspective, how bad do you want that elusive 10%? What other boxes have you already ticked to reach the one saying 'VEYRON'? Macca F1, Carrara GT, Enzo, SLR, Murchie et al? I reckon those would offer 98% of the Veyron experience for alot less moolah.
Edited by T.J. on Friday 15th June 14:26
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a...
Little tweak of the Veyron's tail in there (about 7:45)...also worth watching how quickly it pulls away from the R8!
Little tweak of the Veyron's tail in there (about 7:45)...also worth watching how quickly it pulls away from the R8!
Very enjoyable article - it was written how I'd like to be able to write!
A pal and I did bid for a Veyron at an auction last year and got 'reasonably' close - we were serious I should add. God knows what our wives would have thought!
I daresay one of use would be in a French jail right now for a 2 lepton offence had we been successful.
Good article, enjoyed it and gives me a more clear view , also respect the Veyron better and understand why it took them so-long to build it, its awesome power hidden in a "every" day useable car, its a super-car with no real drama, when I read it you don't have to be a F1 driver to drive it normal, ofcorse to drive it to the max you need some skills but I mean it looks like its easy to handle when you drive normal, its a great achievement and to come this far they had to do a lot refinements to make it this good, so respect yes, but think I rather have a K'egg or Zonda and keep the rest of the money for a good garage and petrol bills
its not shouting I WANT ONE but I do want to have a go in it some day, just to feel how it feels and drives
GTRene
but I mean it looks like its easy to handle when you drive normal, its a great achievement and to come this far they had to do a lot refinements to make it this good, so respect yes, but think I rather have a K'egg or Zonda and keep the rest of the money for a good garage and petrol bills its not shouting I WANT ONE but I do want to have a go in it some day, just to feel how it feels and drivesGTRene
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