456 Reliability ?? Your Opinions requested !!!
Discussion
355f said:
one point I missed!!
A survey! albeit with a very small sample.
The main Ferrari dealer that services my cars look after 11 456 on regular servicing. All these are FFSH cars low mileage.
5 of the cars have had new streering racks
6 of the cars have had new radiators
All excpet one have had the window mech update
7 of the cars the rear shocks have been replaced.
Of course I dont want to give 'incorrect information' maybe other surveys could be done to see??
Best thing to do is to ring a dealer and tell the you have a 456 and ask 'is that a common fault' and there you have your answer!!!
Well that triggered a mini avalanche! Taking that sample of 11 as representative of what'll be on the market, then the main cause of angst, the windows, has been rectified on all but one. The question is what is the lifetime and replacement cost of the other items. Let's assume worst case- all will need replacing and aren't covered under warranty; Lotusnobles has already posted the radiator is £1.6K and I know the rear shocks are £1K. This stuff falls within a £2-4K annual budget (as long as the radiator doesn't go in a cambelt year) so the missing item is the steering rack.
To balance this, you would need to look at another model, such as a 355 and compile a list of common problems including cats, manifolds, rear deck, valve guides etc. as has been posted before, and see if you come up with a dramatically different annual total.
Depreciation, the largest running cost of all, rarely gets a mention though, and that is one big point to counterbalance the others in favour of an older car.
I very much doubt whether 'the masses' will make a purchase decision based on say-so of you, I or any other faceless bod on the internet. It's a good way of polling opinion and experience. In my case the principal cost of ownership has been depreciation, but it's been massively enriching in terms of enjoying life.
If anyones interested the car I talked about is now at Broughtons ( www.broughtons.co.uk )as well as the rad the belts were done on last service with a total bill of £6.5k spent at MHT so ought to now be in very good order!
We must go back to the question that was asked of us faceless people on the internet!!
Is the 456 a reliable car that can be used everyday??
My little survey indicates that the jobs needing attention had been rectified.
The rather worrying thing is that these cars were v low miles ie 3/10K miles so; as no modifcations have been made to failing parts other than revised window mechs one would surmise they would fail again in the same mileage period.
so the advice of the panel seems to be-----
oh yes!! buy one! providing you buy from a main dealer with a full formula warranty; and sell it before it expires presumably, seems to sum up the advice!!
so im sure everyone will draw their own conclusions!!
The Ferrari 355 issues you mentioned are spot on, Ive had cats, manifolds, f1 pump ect on my 12K 99 car.
Its a pity at the time I purchased it I did not have the benefit of honest opinion as to the major issues of these cars. With a small manufacturer like Ferrai for example its unfortunate that its the customers who do the development work for them!
I was not responding to the post to denegrate the 456 which is a truly great car. I was trying to give a true indication of what many owners seem to experience when owning them.
I am sure that my say-so will not affect a decision to buy it. I do hope however that the buyer will be that much more aware of the issues concerning this model so that one can go into a transaction with the full knowledge of real word issues and not be led into false thinking that the Ferrari Formula warranty pays for it all.
and cry when it goes wrong 
...But, It's only money and Coffin's don't have pockets. Bury me in my 456. 
Well I agree with our 456-owning brethren.
I observed one yesterday, an N-plater in the ubiquitous dark blue.
If you could bottle pure, distilled class, this vehicle would be akin to that £105,000 bottle of C le F that apparently belonged to Jefferson in 1787.
The most stylish motorised conveyance bar none.
I have swooned.
I observed one yesterday, an N-plater in the ubiquitous dark blue.
If you could bottle pure, distilled class, this vehicle would be akin to that £105,000 bottle of C le F that apparently belonged to Jefferson in 1787.
The most stylish motorised conveyance bar none.
I have swooned.
My 456 experience has been very good. My dealer confirmed all the points raised s issues would be covered under the warranty, I have it in writting so no wriggling out. In my 8 months of ownership I have so far spent nothing. I have had an A/C hose develop a hole and the dealer picked the car up in their transporter and replaced the hose free. Like Prancing and 456MGT I am a happy 456 owner.
uonlyhave2seats said:
My 456 experience has been very good. My dealer confirmed all the points raised s issues would be covered under the warranty, I have it in writting so no wriggling out. In my 8 months of ownership I have so far spent nothing. I have had an A/C hose develop a hole and the dealer picked the car up in their transporter and replaced the hose free. Like Prancing and 456MGT I am a happy 456 owner.
In 8 months you haven't had a service (or at least an oil change)
Never let me buy a car from you ! Our 456s have been pretty reliable, only problem really the horrifying depreciation. With the exception of the window problem (which is likely to have been sorted on any car in the dealer network) the costs associated with the problems that do arise are not that expensive, as outlined by 456mgt.
355f said:
as no modifcations have been made to failing parts other than revised window mechs one would surmise they would fail again in the same mileage period.
Cobblers. There are numerous parts differences between the early 456s, later 456s, and the 456M to counter the problems experienced in earlier cars. Most of these upgraded parts can be retrofitted, permanently (with luck) solving the earlier issues. One example is the rad. The cracking was as a consequence of excessive stresses being transferred into the radiator. The new radiators have an additional brace which solves the problem. Our '96 has had this upgrade under warranty. The rear shocks have also been replaced (with a little cajoling) by the dealership, again under warranty.
Check everything (especially the electrics) and have an independent inspection, and don't have unrealistic expectations of the car (it will cost a lot to run, in servicing, insurance and fuel if nothing else) and you'll experience perhaps the most enjoyable 4 seater available, and a true Ferrari Grand Turismo.
jaydee said:
My 456 experience has been very good. My dealer confirmed all the points raised s issues would be covered under the warranty, I have it in writting so no wriggling out. In my 8 months of ownership I have so far spent nothing. I have had an A/C hose develop a hole and the dealer picked the car up in their transporter and replaced the hose free. Like Prancing and 456MGT I am a happy 456 owner.
In 8 months you haven't had a service (or at least an oil change)
Eh ? I'm confused
Aren't all modern Ferrari's intervals 6k, 18k, 30k .... or an annual ? There should be no need to do more than an annual service if your mileage is low, so no service in 8 months is fine. Frostie
jaydee said:
My 456 experience has been very good. My dealer confirmed all the points raised s issues would be covered under the warranty, I have it in writting so no wriggling out. In my 8 months of ownership I have so far spent nothing. I have had an A/C hose develop a hole and the dealer picked the car up in their transporter and replaced the hose free. Like Prancing and 456MGT I am a happy 456 owner.
In 8 months you haven't had a service (or at least an oil change)
Our 456s have been pretty reliable, only problem really the horrifying depreciation. With the exception of the window problem (which is likely to have been sorted on any car in the dealer network) the costs associated with the problems that do arise are not that expensive, as outlined by 456mgt.
355f said:
as no modifcations have been made to failing parts other than revised window mechs one would surmise they would fail again in the same mileage period.
Cobblers.
Well the shocks are still the same be prepared to change those again very soon!! and the steering rack is the same, be prepared for that!! and although the rad was modified they STILL leak! thank god for the warranty!!
I agree that the 456m had many improvements; with respect the original poster was NOT asking about that car!!
There are numerous parts differences between the early 456s, later 456s, and the 456M to counter the problems experienced in earlier cars. Most of these upgraded parts can be retrofitted, permanently (with luck) solving the earlier issues. One example is the rad. The cracking was as a consequence of excessive stresses being transferred into the radiator. The new radiators have an additional brace which solves the problem. Our '96 has had this upgrade under warranty.
I can confirm for SURE from my own expereince that in many cases the Ferrari formula warranty will just pay to repair it and NOT upgrade it, this is classed as an improvement!!The rear shocks have also been replaced (with a little cajoling) by the dealership, again under warranty.
Check everything (especially the electrics) and have an independent inspection, and don't have unrealistic expectations of the car (it will cost a lot to run, in servicing, insurance and fuel if nothing else) and you'll experience perhaps the most enjoyable 4 seater available, and a true Ferrari Grand Turismo.
joelk said:
Hi there,
I'm considering buying a 456 (approx 1996) and would appreciate anyone's thoughts on their reliability when used as an everyday car.
Also, can anyone suggest what are the 456 specific problems & issues to look out for?
Many thanks,
Joel
This was the original post!! some responders seem to have lost the plot.
The individual is seeking a 96 car.
355f said:
joelk said:
Hi there,
I'm considering buying a 456 (approx 1996) and would appreciate anyone's thoughts on their reliability when used as an everyday car.
Also, can anyone suggest what are the 456 specific problems & issues to look out for?
Many thanks,
Joel
This was the original post!! some responders seem to have lost the plot.
The individual is seeking a 96 car.
355f,
I'm slightly confused by your posts. On the one hand you are quoting stats which would imply EVERY single early 456 will haved suffered from a known set of issues and then you are talking about warranties not covering the improvements/upgrades. Surely if your stats are correct then chances are almost every car anyone would go and look at will have had the issues fixed with the improvements ?
I think the key thing here is making the RIGHT purchase in the first place and ensuring that any known upgrades have been carried out before purchase or are done as part of it.
I also get the impression from your personal experiences that your expectations on the service & maintenance bills on a modern Ferrari are too low and hence might explain your negative comments.
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Saturday 9th August 21:40
355f said:
Well the shocks are still the same be prepared to change those again very soon!! and the steering rack is the same, be prepared for that!! and although the rad was modified they STILL leak! thank god for the warranty!!
Err, no the shocks are not the same, they'd be hard pressed to be, the original shocks are no longer in production. The rack is the same, but the rack failure was as a consequence of the rack mounts, not the rack itself. FWIW we had the rack stripped down as a precaution (at the dealership's expense) and there was no significant wear to it. I'd like to know how (as you do not own a 456) you have such certainty on the parts issues, as your views do not coincide with those of one of the oldest, and best regarded, Ferrari dealerships in the country who have had none of the 456s they look after back with any cooling issues following the rad replacement. The rads have been changed on all the non-M 456s with which they deal.
355f said:
I agree that the 456m had many improvements; with respect the original poster was NOT asking about that car!!
Thanks, I can read. Many of the parts upgrades to the 456m have subsequently been applied during the work that has been done on them under warranty and otherwise.
355f said:
I can confirm for SURE from my own expereince that in many cases the Ferrari formula warranty will just pay to repair it and NOT upgrade it, this is classed as an improvement!!
I can confirm that the very few parts that have required work have been replaced with those currently recommended by Ferrari, by a main dealer, principally under warranty. In a number of cases the parts are those currently available, which differ from those originally fitted to the vehicle and could be regarded as upgrading those parts originally fitted. Although we have not had the window upgrade, this clearly does not concur with your opinion as it is undoubtedly an upgrade (replacing a system that doesn't work with one that does) and has been carried out under warranty on numerous cars.
frostie said:
Eh ? I'm confused
456GT, oil and filter service 6k or every 6 months (according to the handbook).
frostie said:
joelk said:
Hi there,
I'm considering buying a 456 (approx 1996) and would appreciate anyone's thoughts on their reliability when used as an everyday car.
Also, can anyone suggest what are the 456 specific problems & issues to look out for?
Many thanks,
Joel
This was the original post!! some responders seem to have lost the plot.
The individual is seeking a 96 car.
355f,
I'm slightly confused by your posts. On the one hand you are quoting stats which would imply EVERY single early 456 will haved suffered from a known set of issues and then you are talking about warranties not covering the improvements/upgrades. Surely if your stats are correct then chances are almost every car anyone would go and look at will have had the issues fixed with the improvements ? ...
I also get the impression from your personal experiences that your expectations on the service & maintenance bills on a modern Ferrari are too low and hence might explain your negative comments.
This confused me also. If every car has had the work done and the work, for the most part, solves the original problems then why worry. Surely this is in the same category as an early Speed 6, you'd want the car that had had the work done, as it wouldn't need it doing by you
I would echo the second part of your post frostie. If 355f is having his car serviced by a main dealer he may be getting the 'we don't care' service, sadly so prevalent
, and have an unrealistically low view of what the costs associated with a prancing pony come out at.
frostie said:
joelk said:
Hi there,
I'm considering buying a 456 (approx 1996) and would appreciate anyone's thoughts on their reliability when used as an everyday car.
Also, can anyone suggest what are the 456 specific problems & issues to look out for?
Many thanks,
Joel
This was the original post!! some responders seem to have lost the plot.
The individual is seeking a 96 car.
355f,
I'm slightly confused by your posts. On the one hand you are quoting stats which would imply EVERY single early 456 will haved suffered from a known set of issues and then you are talking about warranties not covering the improvements/upgrades. Surely if your stats are correct then chances are almost every car anyone would go and look at will have had the issues fixed with the improvements ?
I think the key thing here is making the RIGHT purchase in the first place and ensuring that any known upgrades have been carried out before purchase or are done as part of it.
I also get the impression from your personal experiences that your expectations on the service & maintenance bills on a modern Ferrari are too low and hence might explain your negative comments.
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Saturday 9th August 21:40
I agree with you 100pc!!! the issue is to make the right choice and one can only do that if individuals write in and say what the issues CAN be!
My point is,; would it help you to make a decision if I say ive had mine for x months and its a very reliable car!!! what the questioner wants to know are the major issues. What MAY he face?
Now, going back to my previous statements in the cases of the cars ive mentioned they were sold within the past year and have the formula warranty. My own experience with the Ferrari underwritters was that they would not pay for what they considered an upgrade, merely a repair, otherwise they would be unable to insure the vehicles for a sensible sum( his words)
So in these cases ( apart from known problems which have not been dealt with by ferrari) these cars would im sure be great purchases - but what about all the other cars out there, after all many are not under warranty?
My comments are not negative at all, its a great car!! and I have paid handsomely I regret to say! to keep my vehicles in order ,so well aware of the cost issues and more!
355f said:
Now, going back to my previous statements in the cases of the cars ive mentioned they were sold within the past year and have the formula warranty. My own experience with the Ferrari underwritters was that they would not pay for what they considered an upgrade, merely a repair, otherwise they would be unable to insure the vehicles for a sensible sum( his words)
Just to re-reiterate those components that are replaced are replaced with the current recommended parts if the work is carried out under warranty. In some cases (most on early cars) this results in what most buyers would perceive as an upgrade, namely the replacement of a part with known problems with one that works.
Joel, I would strongly suggest going through the known issues with the dealer, with reference to the particular car you're interested in, and checking what repair work has been done and what work would be covered that has not been done. You should, then, be covered against possible mishap.
Jaydee
I have owned a 456 and two other Ferraris.
I regret to say, although acquired from a main dealer and with a formula warranty it was not the epitome of reliability.
At least as a result of the posts on this site hopefully the questioner will be fully armed to buy a great reliable 1996 car fully updated to 2001 spec!
I have owned a 456 and two other Ferraris.
I regret to say, although acquired from a main dealer and with a formula warranty it was not the epitome of reliability.
At least as a result of the posts on this site hopefully the questioner will be fully armed to buy a great reliable 1996 car fully updated to 2001 spec!
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