Grip in the wet
Discussion
My 3200 is a handful in the wet, but I put it down to the turbos. You have to really pull back the throttle at 2900rpm at the turbos come in or you just end up floundering.
I tend to use my RS6 in the wet which seems to drive as fast in the wet as it does in the dry - quite a car if a little over efficient!
I tend to use my RS6 in the wet which seems to drive as fast in the wet as it does in the dry - quite a car if a little over efficient!
ok ... seems a drive by is needed....
Thanks for that Graham, went out driving with a pal of mine and he was on was on Dunlops, it was damp and I couldnt get close to him... we then swapped cars and the grip was stunning.
I tried to get Dunlops for the 360 but couldnt get any standard sizes.. so went back to P zero's.
wouldnt mind trying another car on S02's in the wet.
Thanks for that Graham, went out driving with a pal of mine and he was on was on Dunlops, it was damp and I couldnt get close to him... we then swapped cars and the grip was stunning.
I tried to get Dunlops for the 360 but couldnt get any standard sizes.. so went back to P zero's.
wouldnt mind trying another car on S02's in the wet.
456gt Andrew.... I think I may try the Rossos, I also hear people raving about the Corsa, but thats in the states... I dont think the semi slick tyres work well in the UK, had them on a 4wd car I had and the back used to step out all the time.
Mal, RS6 eighhhh ?? The Devils wheels...!!!! Reminds me when I had a track Lancia Integrale... was it really wet ? oh well...
Mal, RS6 eighhhh ?? The Devils wheels...!!!! Reminds me when I had a track Lancia Integrale... was it really wet ? oh well...
Had P zeros on the 360 and have got them on my porky b'stard currently and I have to say I was always a bit timid in the 360 in the wet but the porky thing just has phenominal levels of grip in the wet - I keep trying to provoke it into tail out moves with the pcm switched off and it only really happens with serious abuse/lifting off mid corner before standing back on it I guess it is 4wd though!! 
456mgt...I have just fitted a set of Rossos to my C2, where I had Pilot Sport Cups previously, and have been well impressed with the comparable grip, however as for in the wet, it only rains here 3 or 4 days a year, so no help there I'm afraid. I am trying to change the factory supply on a GT3 I have coming at the end of the year to Corsas, rather than the Pilot Sports that are supplied standard, as I read a very positive review on the improved handling on the GT3 RS, which has Corsa as standard.
I'm also going to change from PZero to Rossos on my 355 shortly to try them out. I guess I'll have to get the hose out to try the wet handling though
We get sand on the road here, which can be every bit as involving as rain, particularly when only your outer wheels go over it on a roundabout.
I'm also going to change from PZero to Rossos on my 355 shortly to try them out. I guess I'll have to get the hose out to try the wet handling though
We get sand on the road here, which can be every bit as involving as rain, particularly when only your outer wheels go over it on a roundabout.
Hi David. Agree with you on the sand thing! I too am in Dubai and there's not a lot that tyres can do about sand.
Interested to note that you switched from Michelin Cups to Rossos. I recently went from the standard Michelin Sports to the Sport Cups for autocross purposes but find the grip too much to really enjoy on the public road.
I have thought about switching back to a more "playful" tyre for road use and using the Cups for autocross only. My experience on other types of Pirellis on other cars has not been positive in Dubai as I found their hot weather grip was not as good as some. Care to enlighten me?
(Sorry for the hijack!)
Interested to note that you switched from Michelin Cups to Rossos. I recently went from the standard Michelin Sports to the Sport Cups for autocross purposes but find the grip too much to really enjoy on the public road.
I have thought about switching back to a more "playful" tyre for road use and using the Cups for autocross only. My experience on other types of Pirellis on other cars has not been positive in Dubai as I found their hot weather grip was not as good as some. Care to enlighten me?
(Sorry for the hijack!)
Harris....small world.
I switched to the Rossos as the tread on the Cups ran out after about 10k km, and as I will be selling the C2 shortly, I thought I would put a set of more friendly rubber on the car. I have been surprised at how grippy the Rossos are compared to the Cups, having expected a lot less, but I must confess that it is a 'feel' thing and have not run any times.
Will probably see you at autocross next season with a Radical Tracksport I have just brought out to Dubai. It really is the mutts nuts! Should gives the Caterhams and Westfields a pause for thought.
I switched to the Rossos as the tread on the Cups ran out after about 10k km, and as I will be selling the C2 shortly, I thought I would put a set of more friendly rubber on the car. I have been surprised at how grippy the Rossos are compared to the Cups, having expected a lot less, but I must confess that it is a 'feel' thing and have not run any times.
Will probably see you at autocross next season with a Radical Tracksport I have just brought out to Dubai. It really is the mutts nuts! Should gives the Caterhams and Westfields a pause for thought.
davosr3 said:
456mgt...I have just fitted a set of Rossos to my C2, where I had Pilot Sport Cups previously, and have been well impressed with the comparable grip, however as for in the wet, it only rains here 3 or 4 days a year, so no help there I'm afraid. I am trying to change the factory supply on a GT3 I have coming at the end of the year to Corsas, rather than the Pilot Sports that are supplied standard, as I read a very positive review on the improved handling on the GT3 RS, which has Corsa as standard.
I'm also going to change from PZero to Rossos on my 355 shortly to try them out. I guess I'll have to get the hose out to try the wet handling though
We get sand on the road here, which can be every bit as involving as rain, particularly when only your outer wheels go over it on a roundabout.
I was going to put rossos to replace pzeros standard on the 355.
Quick call to Pirelli technical confirmed that they would NOT suggest them for the 355 indicating stabdard p zeros are what the car was designed for.
Perhaps someone could let me know experiences!
I didn't like PZeros in the wet. Switched to Bridgestone S02s and have just done my first torrential downpour in them last night.
Verdict - better, but still not exactly confidence inspiring. I also think that road noise and ride have suffered marginally so neither are, in my view, ideal for use in the UK.
The problem I'm finding is when you hit standing water at 80+mph. Particularly if only one side of the car hits it.
I suspect it may simply be down to the car being heavy and the tyres being pretty wide. Perhaps any tyre will aquaplane like this.
Either that, or my tyre pressures aren't correct (will search the forum, but if anyone has any top tips, they'd be gratefully received), or the suspension geometry's out or something.
Of course the final possibility is that I'm turning into a grandma and should trust that the car will pull through OK. But it's a pretty unpleasant feeling having the car dance to one side or the other and "float" at speed on a dark rainy night...
The last solution would be to petition the government to sort our bloody roads out. The amount of unlit stretches of motorway with standing water encroaching half way into the fast lane defies belief.
I could, of course, slow down. Which I did. But if Vauxhall can make a van that can cope with these situations, or Toyota's finest midnight cowboy taxis can do the same, why not Ferrari? (My Caterham slices through this sort of thing btw).
Verdict - better, but still not exactly confidence inspiring. I also think that road noise and ride have suffered marginally so neither are, in my view, ideal for use in the UK.
The problem I'm finding is when you hit standing water at 80+mph. Particularly if only one side of the car hits it.
I suspect it may simply be down to the car being heavy and the tyres being pretty wide. Perhaps any tyre will aquaplane like this.
Either that, or my tyre pressures aren't correct (will search the forum, but if anyone has any top tips, they'd be gratefully received), or the suspension geometry's out or something.
Of course the final possibility is that I'm turning into a grandma and should trust that the car will pull through OK. But it's a pretty unpleasant feeling having the car dance to one side or the other and "float" at speed on a dark rainy night...
The last solution would be to petition the government to sort our bloody roads out. The amount of unlit stretches of motorway with standing water encroaching half way into the fast lane defies belief.
I could, of course, slow down. Which I did. But if Vauxhall can make a van that can cope with these situations, or Toyota's finest midnight cowboy taxis can do the same, why not Ferrari? (My Caterham slices through this sort of thing btw).
PS 355f - there was a third tyre approved for the 355. Can't recall if it was Goodyear or Michelin. Should I get to need a new set of tyres with the car, I'll be trying whichever it was next.
That said, the guys in the States seem to say good things about Toyo Proxes which may be worth a try. I do wonder, however, what insurers would say if you had to make a big claim for an accident should the car be shod with "non-approved" tyres.
That said, the guys in the States seem to say good things about Toyo Proxes which may be worth a try. I do wonder, however, what insurers would say if you had to make a big claim for an accident should the car be shod with "non-approved" tyres.
I have heard about TOYO but as i understand it they do not do the correct sizes for the year of the car.
So it means you end up with a larger sidewall which im not convinced about!
the other tyres are goodyear fioranos but very expensive, I think double the price of p zero.
I would not fit the toyo solely for the reason that they are not standard size and i think there would be insurance problems
So it means you end up with a larger sidewall which im not convinced about!
the other tyres are goodyear fioranos but very expensive, I think double the price of p zero.
I would not fit the toyo solely for the reason that they are not standard size and i think there would be insurance problems
The tyres specified for the 355 are Bridgestone SO-1, Michelin Pilot SX, P Zero and Goodyear Fiorano (as of a '98 car). My car came with Fioranos fitted and they had crap wear and had to be changed after 6k km, the P Zero are ok but I don't get a lot of feel from them, and I haven't tried either Bridgestone or Michelin.
Tyre technology has moved on since the 355 arrived and it makes sense to experiment, provided you don't step outside the parameters of the rims that you have on the car. However I don't have any technical knowledge per se, so I would certainly have a chat to the tyre manufacturer before I fit a tyre. I haven't yet discussed Corsa's with the Pirelli agent here but plan to do so before going ahead with the tyres. I just know that there must be a better solution than the tyres I have at present.
Tyre technology has moved on since the 355 arrived and it makes sense to experiment, provided you don't step outside the parameters of the rims that you have on the car. However I don't have any technical knowledge per se, so I would certainly have a chat to the tyre manufacturer before I fit a tyre. I haven't yet discussed Corsa's with the Pirelli agent here but plan to do so before going ahead with the tyres. I just know that there must be a better solution than the tyres I have at present.
yeah I agree with most things on the Pirelli.. they are sub standard in the wet.. I read it somewhere that they need heat to work..
well not going to happen on a wet winter night in the UK.
Have to say I drove the Stradale on the Corsa's and there was a lot more grip. I was shocked cause I expected it to be a lot worse than on P zero's.
Drove another 360 on Dunlops and the grip was fantastic but they dont do the standard size for the fronts, so again problems with the insurance if they ever got the chance.
well not going to happen on a wet winter night in the UK.
Have to say I drove the Stradale on the Corsa's and there was a lot more grip. I was shocked cause I expected it to be a lot worse than on P zero's.
Drove another 360 on Dunlops and the grip was fantastic but they dont do the standard size for the fronts, so again problems with the insurance if they ever got the chance.
A weekend hoonet with Steve (Trackdemon) in torrential rain leads me to conclude that PZeros are just anomolously bad. OK, so this was in a 911, but it's the same car, settings etc that previously had PZeros. While the car was skittish in the wet on PZeros, on Continental Contisport contacts, the level of grip was just astonishing. I kid you not- it wasn't much less than the grip you get when it's bone dry, and the car felt really sure footed. The PZeros on the 911 were fine when they were brand new, but fell off a cliff performance-wise soon after.
Makes me wonder just how much of the 'nervous' handling characteristic (as opposed to lack of grip) of the 360 Modena is down to the tyres.
Makes me wonder just how much of the 'nervous' handling characteristic (as opposed to lack of grip) of the 360 Modena is down to the tyres.
My guess would be "a lot" Kevin. I've never driven a 360, but that would be my take.
Different world, but the single biggest improvement I ever made on the 7 was to get some decent tyres. Made the difference between the car being edgy and being 100% planted and able to carry sooooooo much more speed through corners it was ridiculous (and required a mental shift in the kahoonas department).
I strongly suspect this is the case with most/all cars.
Problem with standing water, as I see it, is the width of the tyres doesn't help. That and the fact that there's not shed loads of choice of rubber out there.
And at 800 quid or more a set, experimenting is an expensive business.
Sadly I suspect the tyres that end up on a car as standard fitment has more to do with the "financial benefits" a manufacturer can get from a tyre vendor than it does outright performance.
Different world, but the single biggest improvement I ever made on the 7 was to get some decent tyres. Made the difference between the car being edgy and being 100% planted and able to carry sooooooo much more speed through corners it was ridiculous (and required a mental shift in the kahoonas department).
I strongly suspect this is the case with most/all cars.
Problem with standing water, as I see it, is the width of the tyres doesn't help. That and the fact that there's not shed loads of choice of rubber out there.
And at 800 quid or more a set, experimenting is an expensive business.
Sadly I suspect the tyres that end up on a car as standard fitment has more to do with the "financial benefits" a manufacturer can get from a tyre vendor than it does outright performance.
Normal P Zeros are notorious for being bad in the wet, not just on Ferraris but pretty much any performance car. As mentioned, they are designed to work best when hot. Contisport Contacts, Michelins etc should all be better.
However, the best tyres for wet grip are Goodyear Eagle F1s (very good), Bridgestone S02s (better) and Pirelli P Zero Rosso Corsas (best).
As for aquaplaning, this is simply a matter of low profile fat rubber. I have found that tyres which are good in the wet generally resist aquaplaning a bit better, but I'm afraid that narrow-tyred hot hatches and Mondeos will do a lot better through standing water than any Porsche or Ferrari. The way to avoid this problem is to take lots of trips to the south of France
I'm picking up a 550 next week and will immediately be changing the tyres for Rosso Corsas - will report back in a month or two.
However, the best tyres for wet grip are Goodyear Eagle F1s (very good), Bridgestone S02s (better) and Pirelli P Zero Rosso Corsas (best).
As for aquaplaning, this is simply a matter of low profile fat rubber. I have found that tyres which are good in the wet generally resist aquaplaning a bit better, but I'm afraid that narrow-tyred hot hatches and Mondeos will do a lot better through standing water than any Porsche or Ferrari. The way to avoid this problem is to take lots of trips to the south of France
I'm picking up a 550 next week and will immediately be changing the tyres for Rosso Corsas - will report back in a month or two.
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