Decisions: DB7 v 996 v E46 M3 v 4200 GT
Discussion
Go for the fun to drive as the main thing, speed it not everything, handling a noise!
I was considering selling my Alfa Romeo 1750GTV (1969) for a 4200GT or 3200GT to set more space, but every time I drive one, I am dissapointed they are not really "Sports" cars more like cruisers. Maybe it is the size of them, not as much fun as the Alfa.
I still may do this though!!! Great exhaust note on the Maserati!
I was considering selling my Alfa Romeo 1750GTV (1969) for a 4200GT or 3200GT to set more space, but every time I drive one, I am dissapointed they are not really "Sports" cars more like cruisers. Maybe it is the size of them, not as much fun as the Alfa.
I still may do this though!!! Great exhaust note on the Maserati!
owned an e46 and loved it, wish i never got rid of it. The CSL is way beyond the normal one and a good car to keep if you can find an original one.
That said I actually stopped short of some lights the other day so a guy in a fully caged E30 M3 could pull alongside just so I could hear and see it. Chatted through the open window, he had a carbon airbox and I have to say it sounded better than anything this side of flat plane v8. IMHO
Since then I have been looking for an E30 as a track toy.
That said I actually stopped short of some lights the other day so a guy in a fully caged E30 M3 could pull alongside just so I could hear and see it. Chatted through the open window, he had a carbon airbox and I have to say it sounded better than anything this side of flat plane v8. IMHO
Since then I have been looking for an E30 as a track toy.
My friend has a DB7, he has had it for 2 years say. He has spent 25k on maintenance. It is always in the garage, just came back last week with another 4k bill. I wouldn't touch one. I have had 4 911's and I haven't spent that amount on all of them!! My point being, the 911 will be more bullet proof than the older aston, I would assume the same good news for the BMW. I don't know anything about the 4200GT.
Goodluck!
Goodluck!
The Mazza has probably the s
test gearbox in history if its the flappy paddle one. Its slow, it jerks you about even when you take your foot off the gas, its generally pants. However they do sound nice and are resonably quick cars. It is a Ferrari engine or part of one anyway so the costs to maintain are pretty high. Good looking car overall and easily fits 4 people in comfort plus the back seats are a ncie place to be.
M3CSL. Seriously quick car and very lairy to drive. Great fun to drive on the road and even better on a track. QUicker than a GT3??? Hmmm perhaps but it depends on who's driving.
C4S. Its 4wd, its a porsche and its pretty unspectacular to drive IMHO. The C2S is a better drive.
Aston: No opinion on these, never owned one.
In conclusion get the M3CSL.
test gearbox in history if its the flappy paddle one. Its slow, it jerks you about even when you take your foot off the gas, its generally pants. However they do sound nice and are resonably quick cars. It is a Ferrari engine or part of one anyway so the costs to maintain are pretty high. Good looking car overall and easily fits 4 people in comfort plus the back seats are a ncie place to be.M3CSL. Seriously quick car and very lairy to drive. Great fun to drive on the road and even better on a track. QUicker than a GT3??? Hmmm perhaps but it depends on who's driving.
C4S. Its 4wd, its a porsche and its pretty unspectacular to drive IMHO. The C2S is a better drive.
Aston: No opinion on these, never owned one.
In conclusion get the M3CSL.
sorry but what an uninspiring list for a car that is supposed to be a 10yr keeper
as others have said above far more politely
996TT or GT3
Get a 550 if you want to pay Maserati bills
DB7 - yesterdays tech when it was being sold, mega maintenance cost, cramped, starting to look old IMHO - get an old Vantage bruiser instead?
M3 - a CSL will be a classic, others will be chav machines unfortunately
as others have said above far more politely
996TT or GT3
Get a 550 if you want to pay Maserati bills
DB7 - yesterdays tech when it was being sold, mega maintenance cost, cramped, starting to look old IMHO - get an old Vantage bruiser instead?
M3 - a CSL will be a classic, others will be chav machines unfortunately
Edited by Adam B on Thursday 25th March 10:15
Orangecurry said:
...out of those, the Maserati 3200GT Assetto Corsa. Fit a Tubi exhause (the previous owner probably already has). Enjoy.
They only made a few. I knew you didn't really mean a 4200.
helloThey only made a few. I knew you didn't really mean a 4200.
pls can you develop why 3200 gt assetto corsa over the 4200 ? i guess you also mean the Maserati 3200GT Assetto Corsa only in manual version
but i heard all around me that the 3200 is very fragile with the 2 turbos ??? so really no doubt : a 3200 better than a 4200 ? better than a gransport ?
thanks
chris
Can I inject a little realism on cost of running a 4200GT, they are no more expensive than running an "M" car and in the 2 years I owned one was actually far more reliable than either of my two previous Bimmers, M3 and M5. Regular annual service is about £800 and a full one £1200 and that is from a dealer, indis will be slightly cheaper. I was regularly spending close to £800 on the Bimmers and thank the lord for their warranties because there was always something that needed doing. Is is fair to say that if something major needs doing on the Maser it will not be cheap but is actually far less expensive than equivalent Ferrari prices and would be about the same as a CSL which I understand has some very significant costs if things need to be fixed.
For me the 4200 is in a different league to all the others, Aston included. The Aston would be out for me as it is too fragile and really does have eye watering costs. 996 C4S is simply too ordinary and there really is very little room in the back. If you really had to have a 911 it would need to be a 993 for me. Regular M3 is simply not an occasion, if you have a weekend car you need to have a sense of occasion when you walk up to it and get inside, M3 simply does not have this. CSL slightly better but from what I understand (I have not driven one) only comes into its own when being driven hard, otherwise I think it is much like any other M3. 4200 really does have a sense of occasion, is great to look at and has a wonderful interior, with proper space in the back and a very useable boot. It makes a stunning noise and is actually a pretty quick car. Is it a balls out sports car, no. That said it does a pretty good impression of one but is much more useable as a result. Depends on what you will be using it for but as a road car it is very hard to beat.
Having said all of the above and bearing in mind you wanted some back seat space I have always had a hankering for an Ur Quattro and also a late Evo Intergale. Both have legendary status and will/are collectable cars, which means depreciation should not be much of an issue. Food for thought!
For me the 4200 is in a different league to all the others, Aston included. The Aston would be out for me as it is too fragile and really does have eye watering costs. 996 C4S is simply too ordinary and there really is very little room in the back. If you really had to have a 911 it would need to be a 993 for me. Regular M3 is simply not an occasion, if you have a weekend car you need to have a sense of occasion when you walk up to it and get inside, M3 simply does not have this. CSL slightly better but from what I understand (I have not driven one) only comes into its own when being driven hard, otherwise I think it is much like any other M3. 4200 really does have a sense of occasion, is great to look at and has a wonderful interior, with proper space in the back and a very useable boot. It makes a stunning noise and is actually a pretty quick car. Is it a balls out sports car, no. That said it does a pretty good impression of one but is much more useable as a result. Depends on what you will be using it for but as a road car it is very hard to beat.
Having said all of the above and bearing in mind you wanted some back seat space I have always had a hankering for an Ur Quattro and also a late Evo Intergale. Both have legendary status and will/are collectable cars, which means depreciation should not be much of an issue. Food for thought!
I have a 1998 DB7 Volante that has been maintained in VGC condition and aside from routine servicing hasn't cost me anything extra. I guess it all depends on what condition you buy, as with any car, and as my one has been in our family since new I know it hasn't been thrashed or abused etc... Its a pleasure to drive, has never broken down and it is certainly not 'a dog', as described by someone earlier ....!
Incidentally what did the original poster buy?
Incidentally what did the original poster buy?
I will also back up the 4200 GT, I ran one for 28k over 3 years and it needed nothing but servicing and consumables, it sounded amazing, was practical but I have to agree it wasn't a track car but so what that isn't why I bought it, I've had 2 3200 GTs before and can honestly say that if you like the idea of running an Italian TVR then fine but they had far too many serious faults for me and felt underdeveloped. The M3 CSL is a great car but at a glance looks like a 318Ci, The 996 is a 996 - boring. And the Aston, I had a V12 Vantage for 3 months, sounds great but what an under developed piece of crap! My money is with the Maser and my alternatives would be none of yours - I would look at SL55 AMG or Jag XKRs or even a 650i BMW but defo not a 645i
rdbrooksie said:
Incidentally what did the original poster buy?
What a bump...................I'd forgotten I'd even started this thread and certainly haven't looked at it in the last 18 months so its hilarious reading some of the views offered up based on not driving the cars.............The initial options posted were extended during the search to include
996 Turbo - quick but sounds pish.
996 GT2 - quicker again but sensitive to camber, raod surface and geo set up.
Ferrari 328 - beautiful but dymanically off the pace
Ferrari 348 - not a good drive
Ferrari 355 - lovely..........maybe next time
Merc SL55...........very nearly bought one...GT
Merc SLK 55 - still depreciating a lot.
Gransport - my preferred Maser......again maybe next time
CSL............still like these.........dont like M3 image
Bought this in January 2010:
Immaculate low mileage 996 C4S manual with a fantastic spec including PSE, BOSE, Litronics, Sunroof, memory heated embossed seats etc.
I am still extremely happy with the decision...............the car is quick enough on the road to stay with 997 Turbo, GT2, GT3, Gransport F430 etc..on our regular PH runs and personally I prefer the naturally aspirated throttle response.
Christmas Mini Run
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/8/DdSl8WlqN...
January Mini Run
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/7/faDyZO1Ds...
March 13th Run (2 parts)
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/5/eRZhA7_t_...
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/4/EniyEIwXB...
March 20th Run (2 parts)
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/3/TLix7PLyi...
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/2/CPRGX0Qnj...
April Arran Run
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/1/ISBJVF4he...
April Ayrshire Run
http://www.youtube.com/user/6C4GTS#p/u/0/aybkHLf4Z...
IMHO its by far the best looking 996 and with the 3.5K worth of Porsche Sports Exhaust it has the best exhaust note of any car I have driven or heard..........430 and Larini GranSport are close but........
Cheers B
VERY NICE TO READ YOUR CHOICE
well in fact i was also considering this car ( PORSCHE 996 4S - X51 - Ech. Clapets ) at 50000 euros
but i do not find it as beautiful both outside and inside as the maserati
now if the sound is as good, the handling most probably better AND THE MAINTENANCE COST better ( not to mention the resale value ! ).... i should may be think twice before buying the mazerati ??
nice week end
well in fact i was also considering this car ( PORSCHE 996 4S - X51 - Ech. Clapets ) at 50000 euros
but i do not find it as beautiful both outside and inside as the maserati
now if the sound is as good, the handling most probably better AND THE MAINTENANCE COST better ( not to mention the resale value ! ).... i should may be think twice before buying the mazerati ??
nice week end
especially as I have been an 'Italian man' for many years with the exception of the Aston! 6C4GTS said:
Careful she doesn't embarrass the countach - these are very capable road cars....despite what paulQV will try to tell you!!
True true, I did 'take on' one in Hong Kong a while back on a nice winding hill road, but soon realised the errors of my way haha. The Countach has all the looks, noise and everything else but certainly, and its difficult to admit, lacks the handling or braking for that matter 
Colossus said:
Can I inject a little realism on cost of running a 4200GT, they are no more expensive than running an "M" car and in the 2 years I owned one was actually far more reliable than either of my two previous Bimmers, M3 and M5. Regular annual service is about £800 and a full one £1200 and that is from a dealer, indis will be slightly cheaper. I was regularly spending close to £800 on the Bimmers and thank the lord for their warranties because there was always something that needed doing. Is is fair to say that if something major needs doing on the Maser it will not be cheap but is actually far less expensive than equivalent Ferrari prices and would be about the same as a CSL which I understand has some very significant costs if things need to be fixed.
For me the 4200 is in a different league to all the others, Aston included. The Aston would be out for me as it is too fragile and really does have eye watering costs. 996 C4S is simply too ordinary and there really is very little room in the back. If you really had to have a 911 it would need to be a 993 for me. Regular M3 is simply not an occasion, if you have a weekend car you need to have a sense of occasion when you walk up to it and get inside, M3 simply does not have this. CSL slightly better but from what I understand (I have not driven one) only comes into its own when being driven hard, otherwise I think it is much like any other M3. 4200 really does have a sense of occasion, is great to look at and has a wonderful interior, with proper space in the back and a very useable boot. It makes a stunning noise and is actually a pretty quick car. Is it a balls out sports car, no. That said it does a pretty good impression of one but is much more useable as a result. Depends on what you will be using it for but as a road car it is very hard to beat.
Having said all of the above and bearing in mind you wanted some back seat space I have always had a hankering for an Ur Quattro and also a late Evo Intergale. Both have legendary status and will/are collectable cars, which means depreciation should not be much of an issue. Food for thought!
In further defence of the Masers honour, the latest software upgrades for the the CC (F1) gearbox software seriously improve speed and change quality of the box. For me the 4200 is in a different league to all the others, Aston included. The Aston would be out for me as it is too fragile and really does have eye watering costs. 996 C4S is simply too ordinary and there really is very little room in the back. If you really had to have a 911 it would need to be a 993 for me. Regular M3 is simply not an occasion, if you have a weekend car you need to have a sense of occasion when you walk up to it and get inside, M3 simply does not have this. CSL slightly better but from what I understand (I have not driven one) only comes into its own when being driven hard, otherwise I think it is much like any other M3. 4200 really does have a sense of occasion, is great to look at and has a wonderful interior, with proper space in the back and a very useable boot. It makes a stunning noise and is actually a pretty quick car. Is it a balls out sports car, no. That said it does a pretty good impression of one but is much more useable as a result. Depends on what you will be using it for but as a road car it is very hard to beat.
Having said all of the above and bearing in mind you wanted some back seat space I have always had a hankering for an Ur Quattro and also a late Evo Intergale. Both have legendary status and will/are collectable cars, which means depreciation should not be much of an issue. Food for thought!
The latest Gransport model is more driver focused with lower ride height, quicker steering, and 30% faster cc gearbox.
My 2005 Gransport has cost me all in £500 routine servicing for the past 12 months, 6000 miles. Thats it, kiss of death now !!
James
Based on what I've owned and driven:
- DB7 looks nice but has the dubious honour of being about the only car I took for a test drive which I returned early because it wasn't doing it for me (I should say I had a Mk1 GT3 at that point so the comparison wasn't good - perhaps in isolation it would have been better).
- 996C4 is probably good long-term bet but like many have mentioned, a 993 C2 would probably be better (I would say that as I just bought one - first time I've bought exactly the same model 911)
- Maserati: never driven any Maser...must do something about that someday...
- M3 - I had one new and thought it was great...but also agree not special enough unless CSL and even then, only car geeks will probably be able to tell it is a CSL and not a modified stock M3
The 456 would also be lovely but expensive. I almost took the plunge a couple of year ago (ended up getting an E93 M3 convertible instead) but got cold feet with worries on cost and ability to resell (plus insurance was double on the Fezza and £4k here in Switzerland, despite fact it would have been garaged, I live in very safe area, it would have done limited miles plus we have full no-claims and I'm over 40!)
- DB7 looks nice but has the dubious honour of being about the only car I took for a test drive which I returned early because it wasn't doing it for me (I should say I had a Mk1 GT3 at that point so the comparison wasn't good - perhaps in isolation it would have been better).
- 996C4 is probably good long-term bet but like many have mentioned, a 993 C2 would probably be better (I would say that as I just bought one - first time I've bought exactly the same model 911)
- Maserati: never driven any Maser...must do something about that someday...
- M3 - I had one new and thought it was great...but also agree not special enough unless CSL and even then, only car geeks will probably be able to tell it is a CSL and not a modified stock M3
The 456 would also be lovely but expensive. I almost took the plunge a couple of year ago (ended up getting an E93 M3 convertible instead) but got cold feet with worries on cost and ability to resell (plus insurance was double on the Fezza and £4k here in Switzerland, despite fact it would have been garaged, I live in very safe area, it would have done limited miles plus we have full no-claims and I'm over 40!)
I went through this decision making exercise before I bought in April '10. I was looking for a 4 seater GT and there really aren't that many cars that fit the bill, your list pretty much covers them in this price bracket. Ferrari 456 would be a very brave buy and the 612 and DB9 are double the price.
I decided the M3 was too common and not particularly special and the CSL was too extreme for a family GT. The Porsche was just too obvious and I felt was the choice for those with no imagination (sorry and 996 owners reading this) it was also dated inside and has virtually no rear seats. The DB7 is so far out of date now it isn't really comparable and is way too cramped.
I went for the 4200 and do you know what? it's absolutely sublime.
Mine is a updated 04 model, I did 6k miles in it over the last year including a family break to Devon with enough bags for a week and a trip to south west France. It is an extremely capable and supremely comfortable GT with the 4.2 Ferrari V8 from the 360/430. A different crank, granted, but boy does it sing at 6k rpm!.
I've just had the 31k service which is the big one at a good indie and it came in at £1200, next year should be around £700 hopefully. I have a new pair of rear boots arriving on Thursday at £180 each, and Ferrodo pads all round for £78 which I will fit myself (anyone can fit brake pads) so that will be 2k for the year. Oh, the throttle potentiometer failed shortly after I bought so add another £360ish I think.
I love it, it is very elegant and quite understated, but (I think) exudes class and refinement without shouting about it.
Downsides? Well, I average around 17mpg combined, although when cruising with the sat nav indicating 70mph I get 24mpg. (this is according to the trip computer so take with a pinch of salt). It's definitely not a town car and is realistically only available as a robotised manual although there are a couple of manuals around.
I can't think what I'd ever replace it with. A Maserati GT maybe? too big and heavy, Gransport more likely. Ideally I'd love a 612 but as I said earlier, it's in another league price and maintenance wise altogether.
I can't recommend it enough, the interior is just gorgeous, it makes the 911 interior feel rubbish by comparison. Full bore up shifts in sport mode are a sensation yet you can do 500 miles in a day at over a ton and still feel fresh at the other end.
And it attracts lots of admiring looks; you don't get that in an M3 or 996!
I decided the M3 was too common and not particularly special and the CSL was too extreme for a family GT. The Porsche was just too obvious and I felt was the choice for those with no imagination (sorry and 996 owners reading this) it was also dated inside and has virtually no rear seats. The DB7 is so far out of date now it isn't really comparable and is way too cramped.
I went for the 4200 and do you know what? it's absolutely sublime.
Mine is a updated 04 model, I did 6k miles in it over the last year including a family break to Devon with enough bags for a week and a trip to south west France. It is an extremely capable and supremely comfortable GT with the 4.2 Ferrari V8 from the 360/430. A different crank, granted, but boy does it sing at 6k rpm!.
I've just had the 31k service which is the big one at a good indie and it came in at £1200, next year should be around £700 hopefully. I have a new pair of rear boots arriving on Thursday at £180 each, and Ferrodo pads all round for £78 which I will fit myself (anyone can fit brake pads) so that will be 2k for the year. Oh, the throttle potentiometer failed shortly after I bought so add another £360ish I think.
I love it, it is very elegant and quite understated, but (I think) exudes class and refinement without shouting about it.
Downsides? Well, I average around 17mpg combined, although when cruising with the sat nav indicating 70mph I get 24mpg. (this is according to the trip computer so take with a pinch of salt). It's definitely not a town car and is realistically only available as a robotised manual although there are a couple of manuals around.
I can't think what I'd ever replace it with. A Maserati GT maybe? too big and heavy, Gransport more likely. Ideally I'd love a 612 but as I said earlier, it's in another league price and maintenance wise altogether.
I can't recommend it enough, the interior is just gorgeous, it makes the 911 interior feel rubbish by comparison. Full bore up shifts in sport mode are a sensation yet you can do 500 miles in a day at over a ton and still feel fresh at the other end.
And it attracts lots of admiring looks; you don't get that in an M3 or 996!
Edited by allgonepetetong on Tuesday 10th May 16:54
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