F355 Model Evolution

[GI Jnr]

I'm currently trawling through my issues of EVO, but thought I'd ask here as well.

Currently considering an F355 Spyder. Can anyone give me a quick lowdown on the evolution of the 355 please? Was there a revision/upgrage between 1995-1998?

Also, anything out of the ordinary to look out for. Obviously, FSH, cambelts, etc tubi...

Thanks in advance!

Tuan

[355f]

GI Jnr said:

I'm currently trawling through my issues of EVO, but thought I'd ask here as well. Currently considering an F355 Spyder. Can anyone give me a quick lowdown on the evolution of the 355 please? Was there a revision/upgrage between 1995-1998? Also, anything out of the ordinary to look out for. Obviously, FSH, cambelts, etc tubi... Thanks in advance! Tuan

The 95/96 cars used bosch motronic 2.7. This system effectively operates the car as 2 four cylinder units so you have 2 seperate ECUs. Some individuals feel this gave them a little more power than the later units from late 96 onwards which uses bosch 5.2 and 1 ECU. from a reliability point of view though the later unit is better.

Also in 96 a change came about with the exhust manifolds which were cracking, the early cars had the aux airpipes entering in a sort of v configuration later ones were straight. This change howevermade no diference to longevity and the manifolds break at the point the airpipes enter or burn through because they are of poor quality. Its an expensive job as new ones from Ferrari will cost about £2K per side plus costs.

It seems cars suffer at any mileage from 3-15K and they keep going. Many use rebuilt ones from QV london or Tubi ( at a cost!)

In 96 there was a change from bronze valve guides to sintered steel as the bronze ones were not lasting although the factory continued to use up their old stock so some 97 might have the bronze ones!! the problem also is that becuase many f cars are low miles you might not be aware of the problem yet! best check with a Ferrari dealer who can get the info from the VIN. in 97/98 there was an upgrade to the ABS making it more advanced

As with any ferrari its the customers that do a lot of the development work so there were many many small changes that were running ones so the later car is always better.

Not many owners do the annual dynitrol rustproofing as suggested by ferrari, you can have corrosion in the battery box on drivers side front wheel arch, in the rad air intakes and on the rear 3/4 panel lower seam. On gtbs its also the rear c pillar.

The alarm battery is set to expire when its 2 years old and the unit costs about 200 for a replacement.

If you buy from a ferrari dealer be aware that the formula warranty does not cover a lot of things you might want to claim for!! but it gives some peace of mind. The warraties by independants are not worth anything, best save that money for a proper PPI with a specialist.

from my expereince there is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari you will pay now or later!! and the costs if you get it wrong are huge.

Needless to say check for belt changes ( engne out) at 3 years, a proper service history from a dealer also with the spyder check the operaton of the hood and you should cycle it once a month to keep it going, its not the best system of operation anyway!

Other than that its a great car IMO one of the best shapes ever.

Oh avoid ones that been mucked about with ECU upgrades street clear!!! and 'performance air filters!!!! avoid!!

also whilst many are mad on tubi, and indeed they do make a nice sound at high revs you should also be aware they make no difference to performance and you get a resonance at about 2,500 to 3000 revs which is really quite nasty. Not so importnant in a spider but in a berlinetta - not so good, especially if you have to stick to ythe speed limit as this equates to 60MPH

>> Edited by 355f on Monday 19th January 10:30

[GI Jnr]

355f said:

As with any ferrari its the customers that do a lot of the development work so there were many many small changes that were running ones so the later car is always better.

Wow! Thanks for all that!

On your comment above, would you say then that a later car (96-98) with higher mileage (20k-25k) would be better than an older car (95-96) with lower mileage (15k-20k)?

I don't envisage the car doing any more than 5k pa.

Thanks again

Tuan

[jjustin]

Great post!
I'm looking to get my first 355 in the next couple of months and this post gives me a few more things to consider

[bluekawala]

yeah, great post! very interesting information. but one question. why are the 'modified' cars with aftermarket air filters and ECUs bad? are they not as reliable as the stock units or just overpriced for little to no performance gain?

[f355gtb]

Check out Ferrarichat.com for the recent post on 355 valve guides.A very informed post on this subject,and eliminates many myths.

[355f]

GI Jnr said:

355f said: As with any ferrari its the customers that do a lot of the development work so there were many many small changes that were running ones so the later car is always better. Wow! Thanks for all that! On your comment above, would you say then that a later car (96-98) with higher mileage (20k-25k) would be better than an older car (95-96) with lower mileage (15k-20k)? I don't envisage the car doing any more than 5k pa. Thanks again Tuan

Ive bought 3 355s and without doubt the best ones are the latest 97/99 with a higher mileage say 20K is fine. Lets face it thats still only 4K miles per year, anything less and I think the engine is worse for it. Dont buy a garage queen!!

[355f]

bluekawala said:

yeah, great post! very interesting information. but one question. why are the 'modified' cars with aftermarket air filters and ECUs bad? are they not as reliable as the stock units or just overpriced for little to no performance gain?

well there is huge dyno evidence to suggest that these hi flow filters are hi flow and LOW filtration they allow a lot of damaging bodies into the engine and do NOTHING for performance.

as to the CHIPS!! in the 96 cars where there are 2 motronic boxes some are chipped in tyhe case of the 97 on cars there is are only 2 companies worldwide that can produce a proper programme thats an improvement and NO superchips is not one of them!!! we are not talking about companies who make a chip for every car! what they all tend to do is allow overfuelling on overrun hence the flashes of flame when you back off at high revs, all very nice but its not enhancing power and if you want to keep the car dont do it!!!

[jjustin]

355f said:

Dont buy a garage queen!!

Are there particular things to look out for when considering low mileage examples - say less than 10k miles on a 95/96 car?

[355f]

one other thing I missed!!! the exhaust bypass valves tend to pack up, so check its working, sometimes this shows itself as a horrible rattle at idle. Its £800 plus fitting for a new one.

Also look for corrosion around the winscreen seals, lift up the seals to check.

If it was me I would looke for a higher mileage 9798 car I would NOT buy a 95/96 lets face it say upi find a 96 car with 7K on it. Thats less than 1000 mles peryear. I doubt the speedo is correct for a start and 1K per year is not enough to keep problems at bay.

[GI Jnr]

Thanks for all of the advice! I know my TVR's but not italian...

Looking at what's out there, I've got my eye on a couple of 97R/98S 355's with between 10k-20k on the clock.

All will come with a service and recent belt change.

Ranging from £63k-£69k

Re: Number of owners. Not uncommon to have a few as per TVR's?

Thanks again

Tuan

[355f]

GI Jnr said:

Thanks for all of the advice! I know my TVR's but not italian... Looking at what's out there, I've got my eye on a couple of 97R/98S 355's with between 10k-20k on the clock. All will come with a service and recent belt change. Ranging from £63k-£69k Re: Number of owners. Not uncommon to have a few as per TVR's? Thanks again Tuan

well of course a number of owners is quite common on a 97 car I would want no more than say 4. Whats important is how long the LAST owner had it. If he owned it for say 18months or more thats ok if less than a year I would worry a bit.

£64K sounds very cheap to me I would be happier spending 68K for a good car or more fpr one with a formula warranty

[GT2man-2]

-- "If he owned it for say 18months or more thats ok if less than a year I would worry a bit."

Hmm, not sure about that bit.. often they're bought as play things, on a whim even.. It's not unusual for a car to be bought, rarely used, and then sold soon when the owner has another fad in mind.

I only had mine (1998 R) for 5-6 months, and it was in perfect condition before + after.

I was the 9th owner. It's quite common for a car such as a Ferrari to change hands 2-3 times even in the first few months.

I wouldn't expect to pay more than £64K for a 98R with a Formula warranty and about 10-15K on the clock



>> Edited by GT2man-2 on Tuesday 20th January 15:09

[355f]

GT2man-2 said:

-- "If he owned it for say 18months or more thats ok if less than a year I would worry a bit." Hmm, not sure about that bit.. often they're bought as play things, on a whim even.. It's not unusual for a car to be bought, rarely used, and then sold soon when the owner has another fad in mind. I only had mine (1998 R) for 5-6 months, and it was in perfect condition before + after. I was the 9th owner. It's quite common for a car such as a Ferrari to change hands 2-3 times even in the first few months. I wouldn't expect to pay more than £64K for a 98R with a Formula warranty and about 10-15K on the clock >> Edited by GT2man-2 on Tuesday 20th January 15:09

well would agree about the ownership bit! the only thing is each owner intially abuses the car in their own way and if its purchased as automotive jewellery then high revs from cold seem to be the order of the day. Hence so many sad ones with apparently low miles!

Quite frankly I would NEVER buy a car with that many owners but thats just me, and when you try to sell a 97 car with 8 owners in the trade- well its not good news!
As to pricing, i rememebr the first car I bought; reasearched the market and my priority was to get the best price I could and indeed I got it from a main dealer- that purchase was a disaster and its then i realosed that with the cost of repairing even small things a few thousand is gone in a flash!

>> Edited by 355f on Tuesday 20th January 15:36

[GI Jnr]

I've got my eye on two in particular

1: 98S, 10k, will come with service and new belt from dealer in Swindon. It's a sale or return @ the moment @ £69k, but I'm hoping I can get them down to £65k. F1 box

2: 98S,21k, Indie Prestige car dealer in N Yorkshire. Will come with service and new belt from Grey Pauls when deposit taken. £64k, again hoping to get down by a couple of grand. F1 box also. 11 months Formula Warrenty outstanding.

Now, I'm wondering do I put the £2k or so premium on the lower mileage car. I know it's still only 21k, but it's twice the mileage of the other one... or am I being a bit anal?

Tuan

[355f]

GI Jnr said:

I've got my eye on two in particular 1: 98S, 10k, will come with service and new belt from dealer in Swindon. It's a sale or return @ the moment @ £69k, but I'm hoping I can get them down to £65k. F1 box 2: 98S,21k, Indie Prestige car dealer in N Yorkshire. Will come with service and new belt from Grey Pauls when deposit taken. £64k, again hoping to get down by a couple of grand. F1 box also. 11 months Formula Warrenty outstanding. Now, I'm wondering do I put the £2k or so premium on the lower mileage car. I know it's still only 21k, but it's twice the mileage of the other one... or am I being a bit anal? Tuan

ah! you did not say it was an f1!!

In that case I would only buy it from a ferrari dealer.

One car you mention comes with 11 months warranty already supplied so presumably the original purchaser had a 24 month warranty??

The thing is if a ferrari dealer issues the warranty NOW they have to do a FULL PPI and put all matters right before they issue the warranty and it looks very bad on them with ferrari UK if issues arise after they sell the car which would indicate they did not do the PPI properly .

The car you mention was last inspected 12 months ago and you dont know whats happened since. Also I have the F1 and love it but be aware of the costs, if you use the car in town it eats clutches and if the F1 pump goes ( not that common but they can) it costs £7000 with the most popular failure being the actuator which costs £2500.
The specialist dealer takes it to graypaul and motor dealers being what they are will say just do a belt change nothing else and stamp the book. You are the reliant on the formula warranty to help you and in my case on 3 occasions it did not pay out!

I dont think you will get a couple of grand off a good car at a franchised dealer, you can try!!

You will be stuck with main dealer servicing to keep the ferrari warranty in place and whilst you might well get low initial quotes you always seem to get that call to indictae otehr work is required!

Realistic costs are cambelt and 6K service about 2K

18 k service 1K

assuming no brakes or clutch

in the case of the car with 21 K I would want to see bills indicating that the clutch had been changed also!

>> Edited by 355f on Tuesday 20th January 16:46

[ninja_eli]

Is it a GTB/GTS/Spider? Spiders seem to have a premium of circa £3-5K over the others, with the GTS sometimes cheapest sometimes on par with GTB.

Also they are slightly colour sensitive. tdf blue cheapest, red most expensive (my experience).

No you're not being anal with the 10K more miles, it counts towards your depreciation curve and you'll be hit more on the higher mileage car, disproportionately.

There seems to be a 25K mental barrier on these cars.

FYI, I traded my 355 spider in, with 27K miles, I bought it on roughly 16K. At 20K miles they offered £55K trade in, @ 27-28K, they only offered £50K. Its being sold for £62K.

Many mileages might not be accurate, a friends 95 car had low 8k miles, but he later found out his odo was sticking, he put on 2k miles without it showing, so go figure. Still, you'll get hit worse over 25K miles on sale/trade in. Alternatively, get one with 30K+ miles for cheap, and don't give a shit how many miles you put on it. you wont lose much. low miles cars are often crap.

Bare in mind my ex is still not sold. I'd guess they'd take £59-60 easily, better to have their cash back. SOR cars are usually more expensive and more difficult to get a discount on... the owner usually wants more for his car hence why s/he has not sold it directly to dealer for a couple of £K less. Good luck with SOR car, its usually an arsehole, but maybe you might be luckier.

With early 360 coupes being traded for circa £70K, a 355GTB should easily be £15K or so less.

Dont pay too much over £55K-60K for a 355, whatever you get, from an authorised Ferrari dealer and make sure the bypass valve and cats are perfect within the 3 months goodwill period, otherwise it is not covered by warranty. Also, if you get a spider, make sure all the seals are right too, leave it out in the rain to test, lol Having said all that, look for value, and in my opinion the price difference between official dealer and other sources is not worth it. Formula warranty is v good, especially to get the car perfect in the first 3 months.

Be wary of too many owners, each one might have ragged the tits off it from cold, but a test drive and engine check should show up any problems if it really is a bargain, so worth doing the investigating.

Take your time, this time of the year they ain't selling shitloads, and test drive MANY cars, you'll then get a feel for how a proper one drives. Silly me, I bought mine over the phone, and was pretty lucky I guess, but why risk it?

sorry not the most coherent post, but I'm in a hurry!

good luck.

[355f]

SOR cars are usually more expensive and more difficult to get a discount on... the owner usually wants more for his car hence why s/he has not sold it directly to dealer for a couple of £K less. Good luck with SOR car, its usually an arsehole, but maybe you might be luckier.

Not really!! most dealers want to take a large margin forthemselves if they have to keep it in stock, a commision route is often the best way if your a private seller not in a hurry



Dont pay too much over £55K-60K for a 355, whatever you get, 3 months.
Please tell me where I can buy an excellent 98 355 spider f1 from a ferrari dealer for 55k I will add it to my collection!

[GI Jnr]

ninja_eli said:

Bare in mind my ex is still not sold. I'd guess they'd take £59-60 easily, better to have their cash back.

Ali, who's got the car if you don't mind me asking...

ninja_eli said:

SOR cars are usually more expensive and more difficult to get a discount on... the owner usually wants more for his car hence why s/he has not sold it directly to dealer for a couple of £K less. Good luck with SOR car, its usually an arsehole, but maybe you might be luckier.

The 355 I mentioned with 10k on the clock is a SOR, hence the higher price. Would be interesting to see what the owner will move on if they want to shift the car...

ninja_eli said:

I bought mine over the phone, and was pretty lucky I guess,

Does that mean your old one was/is a good one...?

Again, fantastic advice, keep em coming!

Tuan

[ferrariphil]

Hi , I am currently driving a f355 f1 spider that is the best model to buy i have had no problems with the car what so ever , however a fsh is an absolute must i fthe car has been serviced correctly at registered dealers all the information on the car is held on an internal data bank so its history can be varified . I am selling mine at present unfortunately because i am going through a divorce so if you might be interested in a 98 s redg with 20k and a warranty from graypaul please feel free to contact me and i can give you some more information . [e-mail] drop us a line and i will be pleased to help you make the right decision. You will be pleasantly impressed by the car they are truly awesome .