RE: Denbies Sunday Service 19/11

[yellowjack]

Dr G said:

Serious question: I am just off the bottom of the list but have booked a tour.

I'm assuming the normal attrition will occur with list but if it doesn't am I precluded from said tour?

Really wish that people wouldn't sign up if they don't know they can attend. Makes planning for anyone that is a definite very difficult

Turn up anyway and park with the "regular Denbies punters" in the non-reserved car park?

I loved this post...

BenLowden said:

Everyone is welcome at a Sunday Service, doesn't matter what you drive. So come along! If you don't want to park in the Sunday Service area there's other parking available at the venue, but you are more than welcome to.

I'm guessing my '12 plate Mondeo Titanium X would be severely frowned upon in the reserved area list, especially if exotica got left out because of it. I recall the hoo-haa over a SS or other meet at Virginia Water not so long ago, when the "worthy of PH" owners got quite shirty with those of us who threatened to turn up (it's a public car park, by the way) in more humble cars.

It's one thing to say "everyone is welcome, whatever they drive", but when you're not made to feel welcome to attend even outside the VIP velvet rope area, saying it sounds a bit hollow.

I may or may not fancy treating my wife to breakfast at Denbies on that date, or I might turn up on a bicycle. But chances are I'll get the feeling, as so often with Sunday Services, that it's only really for those involved. Sorry if that upsets any applecarts, but it feels as though there is a LOT of (ownership based) judgmental attitude going around on PH these days, yet it's not supposed to be an exclusive "owners club", more of a car enthusiasts' forum. More than once I've had my opinion on some unrelated matter questioned solely on the basis of profile stalking of my car history.

Just an idea, but if you don't want "plebs" pawing at your pride and joy, stick to private events away from places that are either public access or businesses staying open to their regular punters. It's not a dig at everyone who owns a "better" car than me, nor am I bitter or jealous, and I've never encountered this attitude in person. But hiding behind a keyboard can bring out the shallow in some folks good'n'proper...

[nicholasm]

ecsrobin said:

Noesph said:

I wouldn't mind going to have a look around, as its pretty near to me (about 15 miles I would guess). But I only have a little Renault Twingo, I'd feel a bit silly bringing it to a show / meet.

The reason I attend Sunday service’s is for the variety of cars.

Exactly. I enjoyed seeing the Twingo at the Bruntingthorpe SS last year (think it was JOakley1's?).

Looks like this will be a cracking day. Unfortunately I won't be signing up because some thieving cs nicked my car a couple of weeks ago.

[jeremyc]

yellowjack said:

I'm guessing my '12 plate Mondeo Titanium X would be severely frowned upon in the reserved area list, especially if exotica got left out because of it. I recall the hoo-haa over a SS or other meet at Virginia Water not so long ago, when the "worthy of PH" owners got quite shirty with those of us who threatened to turn up (it's a public car park, by the way) in more humble cars.

It's one thing to say "everyone is welcome, whatever they drive", but when you're not made to feel welcome to attend even outside the VIP velvet rope area, saying it sounds a bit hollow.

You are confusing another Virginia Water event discussed on the PH forums with the Sunday Services that are organised and run by PH. They are very different.

In my experience any and all have been openly welcomed at all Sunday Services. So come along in whatever you like, it certainly won't be frowned upon.

[nicholasm]

jeremyc said:

yellowjack said:

I'm guessing my '12 plate Mondeo Titanium X would be severely frowned upon in the reserved area list, especially if exotica got left out because of it. I recall the hoo-haa over a SS or other meet at Virginia Water not so long ago, when the "worthy of PH" owners got quite shirty with those of us who threatened to turn up (it's a public car park, by the way) in more humble cars.

It's one thing to say "everyone is welcome, whatever they drive", but when you're not made to feel welcome to attend even outside the VIP velvet rope area, saying it sounds a bit hollow.

You are confusing another Virginia Water event discussed on the PH forums with the Sunday Services that are organised and run by PH. They are very different.

In my experience any and all have been openly welcomed at all Sunday Services. So come along in whatever you like, it certainly won't be frowned upon.

That sounds about right. I don't think PH own a VIP velvet rope, do they?

[Alex]

nicholasm said:

That sounds about right. I don't think PH own a VIP velvet rope, do they?

Maybe a piece of string.

[ecsrobin]

nicholasm said:

jeremyc said:

yellowjack said:

I'm guessing my '12 plate Mondeo Titanium X would be severely frowned upon in the reserved area list, especially if exotica got left out because of it. I recall the hoo-haa over a SS or other meet at Virginia Water not so long ago, when the "worthy of PH" owners got quite shirty with those of us who threatened to turn up (it's a public car park, by the way) in more humble cars.

It's one thing to say "everyone is welcome, whatever they drive", but when you're not made to feel welcome to attend even outside the VIP velvet rope area, saying it sounds a bit hollow.

You are confusing another Virginia Water event discussed on the PH forums with the Sunday Services that are organised and run by PH. They are very different.

In my experience any and all have been openly welcomed at all Sunday Services. So come along in whatever you like, it certainly won't be frowned upon.

That sounds about right. I don't think PH own a VIP velvet rope, do they?

Certainly a non PH event that one as I was one of those causing a stir saying I’d just park in the public car park

I used to attend SS in my bogo civic, no complaints from anyone.

[yellowjack]

Well I'm happy to be proved wrong on this one then.

But that's how I've felt in the past, when thinking about attending a SS even as "just an interested spectator". I've certainly not felt encouraged to attend "just for a look".

I'm under no illusions that anyone will find a slightly dog-eared 5 year old Mondeo interesting in the slightest, and wouldn't put my name down on any list. But the whole "limited to 100/150/300/500* (delete as appropriate) cars" thing sends a message to me, and possibly to others, that we needn't bother turning up as there'd be "no room at the inn" anyway.


I'll also admit, up front, to being biased toward having a bit of a low opinion of car-meet types anyway, based on a number of occasions where I've been passing a meet and had to suffer participants driving like total twonks on public roads upon leaving the event, when all around them the "general public", who typically have no idea there's even an event on, just want to go about their business safely and legally. Again, sorry if that's no-one on here, but I've seen it at a number of regular meets in a variety of locations over a number of years, and with the "youtuber" phenomenon at the moment it seems to only get worse.

Sorry to be a "Negative Nelly" on this thread about it, but I needed to say my piece on the subject. I shall, however, try to persuade my wife to join me for a trip to Denbies on the 19th November so that we may test out the warmth of the welcome for ourselves...

[yellowjack]

Alex said:

nicholasm said:

That sounds about right. I don't think PH own a VIP velvet rope, do they?

Maybe a piece of string.

How long is this piece of string then..?



Sorry for the grumpiness, and apparent flounce earlier!

[ecsrobin]

yellowjack said:

Stuff

Like the current mx5 vs 124 thread in general gassing, you really need to try it to get it.

PH meets have on occasion had the odd enthusiastic departure but it’s no cruise in Asda on a Friday night.

The behaviour this year has been very good (except 1 BMW driver at Farnborough) the reason for 100/200/300 spaces is the venues have limited space. For most events the venue also puts on something to see prodrive - factory tours, bmw - their cars to crawl over, Honda - heritage fleet and BTCC car.

[Leggy]

yellowjack said:

Well I'm happy to be proved wrong on this one then.

But that's how I've felt in the past, when thinking about attending a SS even as "just an interested spectator". I've certainly not felt encouraged to attend "just for a look".

I'm under no illusions that anyone will find a slightly dog-eared 5 year old Mondeo interesting in the slightest, and wouldn't put my name down on any list. But the whole "limited to 100/150/300/500* (delete as appropriate) cars" thing sends a message to me, and possibly to others, that we needn't bother turning up as there'd be "no room at the inn" anyway.


I'll also admit, up front, to being biased toward having a bit of a low opinion of car-meet types anyway, based on a number of occasions where I've been passing a meet and had to suffer participants driving like total twonks on public roads upon leaving the event, when all around them the "general public", who typically have no idea there's even an event on, just want to go about their business safely and legally. Again, sorry if that's no-one on here, but I've seen it at a number of regular meets in a variety of locations over a number of years, and with the "youtuber" phenomenon at the moment it seems to only get worse.

Sorry to be a "Negative Nelly" on this thread about it, but I needed to say my piece on the subject. I shall, however, try to persuade my wife to join me for a trip to Denbies on the 19th November so that we may test out the warmth of the welcome for ourselves...

As long as there are enough special cars to look at then rocking up in something normal isn’t a problem. However if you drove a couple of hours to a sea of bog standard cars you might as well go to the nearest superstore car park. So it’s getting the balance right.

[lezdix]

Alex said:

nicholasm said:

That sounds about right. I don't think PH own a VIP velvet rope, do they?

Maybe a piece of string.

They DO have a rope! They put it around the biscuit tin😊

[CaptainRAVE]

yellowjack said:

I'll also admit, up front, to being biased toward having a bit of a low opinion of car-meet types anyway

Based on this quote and the rest of your ranting, it doesn't sound like this is the forum for you seeing as this whole section is about meeting up in cars.

yellowjack said:

"youtuber" phenomenon at the moment it seems to only get worse.

No, it was always there, it is just that high performance cars are now more accessible and that social media makes such events more visible to you.

yellowjack said:

so that we may test out the warmth of the welcome for ourselves...

Lucky us! I hope we pass this test of yours...

That was certainly one negative post that is based on absolutely no evidence other that your 'feeling'. Geez.

The PH community at SS events is one of the warmest and most welcoming of any car community I have come across. I frequently bring my wife to these events and she loves them. It is great to be able to chat to genuine enthusiasts that bring all sorts of cars to the event.

[ecsrobin]

In yellow jacks defence he is one of the few individuals I always agree with when he posts on here (apart from this time) I’m guessing he was having an off day.

[yellowjack]

To respond to the last two posts -

I've apologised (based on the reasonable responses I got) for my negativity. No doubt the Sunday Services are welcoming, based on the unanimously positive responses, and the fact that no-one has agreed with my view of things. How I came to that view? Experience, but in all honesty it was experience of events other than PH organised Sunday Services.

Now I'm fully aware that people tend to remember more the negative encounters than the positive. I'm a cyclist, and despite overwhelmingly positive encounters with drivers over the years, the stories I can relate most accurately are the negative ones. Same with drivers, some of whom seem to have an all-consuming hatred of cyclists based on one or two minor delays behind cyclists, forgetting any and all positive interactions, or simply those occasions when the cyclist ahead had absolutely no influence on their journey whatsoever. So I can readily accept there are two sides to a story.

I didn't think I was particularly "ranting" on this thread at all, to be fair. You ought to see me on other threads where I can get quite "emotionally involved" with the terminally thick among us.

On the subject of dangerous, and downright illegal driving behaviour on public roads by participants at car meets, at least you had the grace to accept that it does happen...

CaptainRAVE said:

No, it was always there, it is just that high performance cars are now more accessible and that social media makes such events more visible to you.

...and the reason I brought that up was a video of a particularly "exuberant" departure from a classic car meet locally, where some doofus in a Morgan ended up giving a piggy-back to a Peugeot who was already on the dual carriageway onto which the Morgan driver was turning right. And the absolute idiot in a BMW Z4 doing donuts in the mud at a particularly wet Goodwood FoS, churning the place up for later departures, and dangerously close to other people's cars. And the previous year, in nicer weather, where a TVR Chimaera driver was showing off his ability to do donuts in a grass car park (not particularly impressive a feat on a grass surface) which happened to be full of families heading back to their cars. Highly dangerous with kids running around excited after a long day out, but when challenged this oaf and his passenger became abusive. I'll re-assert my position on this matter. It is NEVER, in my opinion, appropriate to dick-about in a performance car with cold tyres while on a public road. Especially not on a damp day while leaving an event into a bank of fog. But then there's a video of one such meet that was linked to on PH a good while ago where the majority of posters seemed to see nothing wrong with such idiocy. And many's the time you see criticism of drivers of powerful cars who refuse to play to the gallery and leave sensibly.

As for this...

CaptainRAVE said:

yellowjack said:

so that we may test out the warmth of the welcome for ourselves...

Lucky us! I hope we pass this test of yours...

...I think you know full well what I meant. If I said I was going to "test the warmth of the welcome" at a hotel or restaurant, or even at potential in-laws, then it's not meant as a serious pass/fail test, FFS! Maybe if I'd used the word "sample" instead of "test" it would have been better, but I don't think it warrants the passive-aggresive response either way. I'm beginning to assume that you may be the exception that proves the rule. I certainly hope so.

You go on to say

CaptainRAVE said:

The PH community at SS events is one of the warmest and most welcoming of any car community I have come across. I frequently bring my wife to these events and she loves them. It is great to be able to chat to genuine enthusiasts that bring all sorts of cars to the event.

..so why do I feel as if you are being quite hostile then? It's exactly the sort of response that led me to form my earlier (and quite possibly biased) opinion that I wouldn't be welcome. Either it's warm and welcoming, or it isn't. Some of your responses (to me, at least) seem somewhat less than warm, and very much unwelcoming. Almost like someone who thinks for himself and is prepared to revise an opinion based on giving something another try, or a fair first opportunity to prove him wrong, isn't welcome.


I'll go back to trying to explain one of the fundamental reasons why I took my original opinion. That is the repeated insistence that "space is limited to 'x' number of cars. Quite often it isn't made clear that this refers to the "show cars". I'm left with the impression that it is based on limited physical space, and that "if you're name's not Dan, you're not coming in". If I got the wrong end of the stick, then I again apologise. I didn't come here for an argument. More to give feedback. It's often pointed out that PistonHeads is inclusive, by virtue of being an "enthusiast" site rather than being "exclusive" like say, an owners' club. Which is why I "took the hump" a bit over Sunday Services. But as I've said already, I'm happy to have had some feedback on my comments that suggests that exclusivity isn't the order of the day at Sunday Services. As such, having not bothered with them before (for fear of being turned away after several hours of driving to get there), I'm now more inclined to at least give them a try, and to attend with an open mind.

Like I said. I like to think I'm open to having my opinion adjusted by experience. If I've been overly negative, I apologise. But that is the nature of the written word, where in a direct conversation I might be able to scrabble around and drag a more appropriate word out of my vocabulary, once I've typed something and you've read it it's too late to find that more suitable language. I'm really not after a fight, and don't want to derail this thread for those who want to discuss the detail of the venue and the event. I'm a regular at Denbies, usually for a bite to eat on the way to somewhere else. It's a beautiful place and provided you get some decent weather I'm sure that all who attend will have a thoroughly enjoyable day out. Whether I end up attending or not, I sincerely hope that everyone who goes along will have a great time. And that, I think, is where I want to park this issue for now. I'll keep an eye on this thread, of course I will, but I will try not to respond to comments where I'll only end up going over the same ground again. That is what ends up spoiling threads like this for everyone else.

[CaptainRAVE]

yellowjack said:

..so why do I feel as if you are being quite hostile then?

Because you have judged the entire community without having even been to a SS.

[ecsrobin]

Just again on your view of your names not on the list you’re not coming in. Whilst that is kind of true anyone’s allowed to add their name to that list until it is full (and then continue to add to the reserve list) there is no requirement to have a good car or a car that meets the theme (although all the bmw owners crawl out the woodwork for BMW UK which kind of makes it boring when there’s no variety)

[yellowjack]

CaptainRAVE said:

yellowjack said:

..so why do I feel as if you are being quite hostile then?

Because you have judged the entire community without having even been to a SS.

Errrm? You KNOW that for sure? Because I certainly don't. I strongly suspect that I did indeed turn up at a Sunday Service (quite by accident, I hasten to add, I was going to the venue for another reason), possibly on more than one occasion.

I also dispute your comment about judging an entire community. I singled out specific behaviours which I (and to be fair, any reasonable person) would find less than ideal and wholly unacceptable on a public road. I also said I was more than willing to have my views adjusted by experiencing an upcoming event for myself. But then there was a snidey comment about my use of the word "test".

It seems, as with other posters, on other threads, we have started off on the wrong foot. It is clear that no amount of apologising for my uninformed, biased opinion further up the thread will cut any ice with you. I've tried to explain myself, but you seem determined to pick on specific portions of my comments in order to further continue an argument that I don't want to have. Consider this my last comment on the matter now. I've tried to avoid derailing the thread so far, and will take no further part in recycling the same discussion over again to the detriment of other forum users. In plain English? I admit defeat, as this seems to be the only thing that will appease you. We're done here. Move on please...

[Master Bean]

Oh Geezus. Will someone pass me some wine

[lezdix]

Master Bean said:

Oh Geezus. Will someone pass me some wine

I know where there's a vineyard!
You just need to find out when they're open and welcoming cars

[Mannginger]

Thanks for the reminder Jack, unfortunately I'm not able to go now so have taken myself from the list