3/5/7 angle valve jobs?

[spitfire4v8]

Ok, so : we've got Dave Andrews on this thread, Dave Baker, now Dave Vizard .. there's Dave's friend Dave Martin down at austec and we all know Dave's friend Dave Walker at emerald.

I think I've just spotted how to join the elite tuners of the world ..

name change to Dave !

Reminds me of the old NTNON sketch " Hey Bob, you seen Bob's torque wrench? No Bob, I think Bob's got it" .. etc etc

[Steve_D]

spitfire4v8 said:

.....Reminds me of the old NTNON sketch " Hey Bob, you seen Bob's torque wrench? No Bob, I think Bob's got it" .. etc etc

'Hand built by Roberts'

My, that was a long time ago.

Steve

[DrTre]

David Vizard said:

It's the holiday season and I have had quite a few of my old buddies in the UK call and ask how I'm doing and what I am up to theses days. Well I have now told the same hour long story (that's the short version) too a bunch of people and it occurred to me that maybe I should post something complete with pics and text of the short version of what I am currently doing in the motor sport field. It seems it would make a pretty decent article but I really don't know in what section I should post it to hit the most readers or what format it should take.
Let me have some input here and can anyone help as to the format. I envisage an article like a magazine deal but that does not seem to fit a regular posting format.
Suggestions welcome.
DV

I've alerted the site owners who ought to be in touch with you. Like, pronto...

Ps. In his defence, Mr puma's sense of humour is pretty spot on with me...though that's really not much of a defence...more of a prosecution..

Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 20th December 08:29

[Pumaracing]

spitfire4v8 said:

Ok, so : we've got Dave Andrews on this thread, Dave Baker, now Dave Vizard .. there's Dave's friend Dave Martin down at austec and we all know Dave's friend Dave Walker at emerald.

I think I've just spotted how to join the elite tuners of the world ..

name change to Dave !

Reminds me of the old NTNON sketch " Hey Bob, you seen Bob's torque wrench? No Bob, I think Bob's got it" .. etc etc

Dave Anton of APT, Dave Mountain of Mountune, Dave Fayette Taylor...the list goes on.

[dbv8]

My middle names David

[Pumaracing]

David Vizard said:

I have known Mr.Pumaracing for over twenty years know...

Doesn't time fly but try 33. It was 1979 when we first spoke about the cylinder head I was porting for my first A series engine and it was actually the same head, albeit further modified and after flowbench time that was on my Metro when we went to the takeaway that night with your daughter ten years later in 1990 or 1991.

David Vizard said:

and can tell you, smart though he may be, his humor can often be off in left field somewhere.
Right know I am trying to get him back to doing something that he is actually proving remarkably talented at (other than heads that is) - namely the writing of a scifi book. Read a few advance chapters so far and if I can get him to focus on it then I have a likely race car sponsor from all the money he will make when he sells the movie rights.

As the late, great and recently departed Christopher Hitchens once observed "It may be true that everyone has a book inside them but in most cases that's where it should stay!"

[stevieturbo]

DrTre said:

Ps. In his defence, Mr puma's sense of humour is pretty spot on with me...though that's really not much of a defence...more of a prosecution..

Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 20th December 08:29

If only the search feature worked here...

I wonder how many spotted the thread where a woman was having difficulty selecting gear in her car. Now his reply then was quite hilarious I thought !! Not appropriate, but hilarious lol

[DrTre]

Ha! missed that, I shall try to find it later on. Blimey, this thread has been derailed all over the shop

[Brummmie]

Yep....

I give in.

[DVandrews]

I met DV briefly in around 1972 or 73 at Aldon's where one my many minis was being run up on the RR, it was a 1380 and made quite good power (around 115 at the wheels) and DV popped his head into the dyno room and watched one of the power runs, we had a 2 minute chat and he disappeared. Havent seen him since .

Dave

[The Black Flash]

DrTre said:

I've alerted the site owners who ought to be in touch with you. Like, pronto...

Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 20th December 08:29

I was about to suggest the same thing - any such article ought to be on the ph front page, I'd have thought. Great though this sub-forum is, it has a fairly small readership compared to the rest of the site. Which is a shame as you get all the best abuse in here

And a warm welcome to Mr. V.

[Pumaracing]

Brummmie said:

Yep....

I give in.

I thought A) we'd covered everything that possibly could be covered re your heads. At least I spent several thousand words trying to and B) you've already taken them to someone and they'll no doubt do whatever they do.

As for anything more complex than simple rules for seat geometry like how best to port something you just can't explain that in words. You need a flowbench, or someone who already has one, to find out what works and what doesn't and the place to be experimenting with that is on scrap heads not a pair you can't afford to start buggering up. No one, not me, not DV or anyone else with any sense is going to try and opine about the ports or the guide bosses in a pair of heads we can't see, don't know what's already been done to them, have no idea how well they already flow and a bunch of other stuff you need to know before starting to modify something.

What I can tell for you for absolutely certain is that someone who hasn't spent time on a flowbench isn't going to have a cat in hell's chance of knowing which are the important areas in a head to modify and which need left well alone.

I remember Dave Walker taking his flowbench and a Pinto head he'd prepared to the Autosport Show many years ago. One port he hogged right out, removing all the guide boss and then polishing everything to a mirror shine but he cut a really crappy valve seat and did nothing contructive to the shortside bend. The next port had less work but a decent seat and a bit more done to the shortside, the next even less work but more done where it mattered and finally the last port was untouched except for a perfect short side bend and 3 angle seat and backcut valve. No polishing, port still as-cast and all lumpy, guide boss not touched, to the untrained eye it looked stock.

So all the punters got asked which port flowed the most and of course most of them plumped straight for the big hogged out shiny one. Then he put it on the flowbench and proved that the one that looked stock outflowed all the others by miles.

[Brummmie]

Pumaracing said:

So all the punters got asked which port flowed the most and of course most of them plumped straight for the big hogged out shiny one. Then he put it on the flowbench and proved that the one that looked stock outflowed all the others by miles.

Scary!!!

You have answered more than i can comprehend

I'm scared witless now what i am going to get back, i'll be looking at what you have said and comparing, no doubt there will be differences.
Just was interested on comparing those two pictures i put up on the same casting.

Again Thankyou.

[rev-erend]

David Vizard said:

I have known Mr.Pumaracing for over twenty years know and can tell you, smart though he may be, his humor can often be off in left field somewhere.
Right know I am trying to get him back to doing something that he is actually proving remarkably talented at (other than heads that is) - namely the writing of a scifi book. Read a few advance chapters so far and if I can get him to focus on it then I have a likely race car sponsor from all the money he will make when he sells the movie rights.

David Vizard

Next post, Mr. Pumaracing permitting, I will get onto something a little more technical!!

Puma has been banging on about writing a book for a few years now ..

I had always assumed it was about tuning and had no idea that we had a budding Arthur C Clark in our midst !

[David Vizard]

In Dave Bakers defense about my critical comments on his sense of humor I should add he has been a good friend especially in my recent times of difficult health issue. Joking aside thanks Dave.

Have we come to any conclusions about this article deal and where to put it??
DV

[DaveL485]

Pumaracing said:

DaveL485 said:

Hello! Pleasure to have you on board.

While you are both here, would you mind suggesting somewhere I can get a set of exhaust valves made please? The OE valves in the head im using won't put up with the stresses of forced induction.

Who says?

The man who said "the standard valves melted in my 12v turbo-converted head after it was mapped".

Well, he didnt actually say that as he's French, but the valves melted and it was remapped (on an OE ECU with an EPROM).
I'm using standalone, but after spending several thousand quid on 1-off forged pistons, nitride coated rings and steel liners, plus billet cam to come and hopefully uprated springs when I get the valves done, its not a risk I want to take.

[DaveL485]

David Vizard said:

In Dave Bakers defense about my critical comments on his sense of humor I should add he has been a good friend especially in my recent times of difficult health issue. Joking aside thanks Dave.

Have we come to any conclusions about this article deal and where to put it??
DV

I've dropped an email to the Bossman himself on your behalf, as well as whatever the other guys have done. Too good an opportunity to pass up!

[Pumaracing]

DaveL485 said:

The man who said "the standard valves melted in my 12v turbo-converted head after it was mapped".

Well, he didnt actually say that as he's French, but the valves melted and it was remapped (on an OE ECU with an EPROM).
I'm using standalone, but after spending several thousand quid on 1-off forged pistons, nitride coated rings and steel liners, plus billet cam to come and hopefully uprated springs when I get the valves done, its not a risk I want to take.

Well I only use OE valve steels in my own big valves and the highest power turbo engine they've run in without problem was 430 bhp at 2 bar boost in a 2 litre 8v ZVH engine. What I suspect you don't realise is that all stock exhaust valves have 21/4N stainless steel heads anyway and that's all anyone is likely to offer you as a "race" valve and inlet valves can't possibly get hot enough to fail unless there's something seriously wrong with the engine.

Whatever happened when your engine failed it wasn't the valves - more likely the person mapping it - or the seats had been badly cut and weren't concentric with the guides or maybe just a one in a million manufacturing fault with a valve.

[anonymous-user]

DaveL485 said:

The man who said "the standard valves melted in my 12v turbo-converted head after it was mapped".

Well, he didnt actually say that as he's French

Mon Dieu, Sacrebleu, Merde, les soupapes d'échappement dans mon moteur doit avoir été faite de fromage, car ils ont fondu, et maintenant je ne suis pas un mec heureux de français !!


(or something like that ;-)

[stevieturbo]

David Vizard said:

Let me have some input here and can anyone help as to the format. I envisage an article like a magazine deal but that does not seem to fit a regular posting format.
Suggestions welcome.
DV

As with most forums, this is a question and answer setup.

As for an article, and in keeping with this thread and recent experiences.

What about valve construction and design, and valve seats ?

Mainly asking as a friend recently bought some Supertech valves, which I think are supposed to be 1 piece, but cannot confirm.
However running a magnet over them, there appears to be 3 distinct parts. 2 magnetic and the majority of the stem not magnetic. Excluding the hardened tip ( assuming they are still hardened these days ? )
Talking modern multivalve engines with bucket style followers.

Then also the reasons why, or methods of prevention of valve seat wear which can still occur on unleaded fuel ( and Ive come across it a few times recently ), and more so when LPG is used as a fuel.