Ford focus TDCi DMF disaster - advice sought!
Discussion
Hello,
This is my first post on these forums, so I'd to say hi to all those who frequent it. I wish I was joining under better circumstances as I'm looking for advice on what has become a nightmarish saga, and to pick people's brains and see if anyone has had a similar issue.
I have an '04 Mk1 1.8 TDCi Focus Ghia with 74k on the clock. I've looked after it well and it's never missed a beat, up until a couple of weeks ago when I had the infamous dual mass flywheel failure.
Took it to my usual trusted garage who said a solid flywheel conversion was the best option so in one went, along with new clutch and concentric slave/thrust bearing.
Result - the car was an absolute pig. Jerky as hell to drive and snatchy when taking your foot off the gas, but worst of all loads of vibration both through the clutch pedal but also shaking the whole car. The vibration intensified when the clutch was dipped and the engine revved. I've done a bit of research and a fair few online seem to have this issue with solid mass flywheel conversions, so I put it down to that.
Back it went, and in went a brand new dual mass flywheel kit (and matching clutch). Result - car now drives beautifully, but STILL vibrates and wobbles significantly around about 1200rpm - I feel like a jelly on a plate in there. There's also the same, drumming vibration that gets worse when the clutch is dipped, though not as bad as before. Garage is stumped as the new DMF is a warrantied LUK part, but I can't help but think it's a dodgy flywheel and is unbalanced somehow.
Does anybody know what's happening at this magic 1200rpm figure? It seems to crop up a fair bit on google search results as a vibration mode in diesel focus' with new flywheels. I'm happy to drive it and live with it as a peculiarity if there are likely no repercussions, but I can't help thinking that vibrating components inevitably work loose, or wear (or both) and subsequently fail.
Any advice would be massively appreciated as I'm on the verge of tearing my hair out!
Cheers, Neil
This is my first post on these forums, so I'd to say hi to all those who frequent it. I wish I was joining under better circumstances as I'm looking for advice on what has become a nightmarish saga, and to pick people's brains and see if anyone has had a similar issue.
I have an '04 Mk1 1.8 TDCi Focus Ghia with 74k on the clock. I've looked after it well and it's never missed a beat, up until a couple of weeks ago when I had the infamous dual mass flywheel failure.
Took it to my usual trusted garage who said a solid flywheel conversion was the best option so in one went, along with new clutch and concentric slave/thrust bearing.
Result - the car was an absolute pig. Jerky as hell to drive and snatchy when taking your foot off the gas, but worst of all loads of vibration both through the clutch pedal but also shaking the whole car. The vibration intensified when the clutch was dipped and the engine revved. I've done a bit of research and a fair few online seem to have this issue with solid mass flywheel conversions, so I put it down to that.
Back it went, and in went a brand new dual mass flywheel kit (and matching clutch). Result - car now drives beautifully, but STILL vibrates and wobbles significantly around about 1200rpm - I feel like a jelly on a plate in there. There's also the same, drumming vibration that gets worse when the clutch is dipped, though not as bad as before. Garage is stumped as the new DMF is a warrantied LUK part, but I can't help but think it's a dodgy flywheel and is unbalanced somehow.
Does anybody know what's happening at this magic 1200rpm figure? It seems to crop up a fair bit on google search results as a vibration mode in diesel focus' with new flywheels. I'm happy to drive it and live with it as a peculiarity if there are likely no repercussions, but I can't help thinking that vibrating components inevitably work loose, or wear (or both) and subsequently fail.
Any advice would be massively appreciated as I'm on the verge of tearing my hair out!
Cheers, Neil
neilwhite123 said:
It's funny you should say that...no flood water, but my car had been through the car wash immediately before the initial DMF failure. I don't suppose this could be anything to do with it?
Thanks, Neil
I was just wondering if it was the dmf that was faulty in the first place. Thanks, Neil
Edited by neilwhite123 on Wednesday 30th May 08:33
If a diesel draws even a small amount of water in through the induction, it can cause a lot of damage that would give similar symptoms to a dmf failure.
Did the dmf symptoms appear suddenly?
Pretty much immediately - I drove through the car wash, out the other side and parked. Popped into the shop, and when I returned 30s later and tried to drive away - BAM. There it was. Very loud banging from underneath, lots of vibration through the clutch pedal and a loud grinding/groaning noise on revving that intensified when the clutch was dipped.
neilwhite123 said:
Pretty much immediately - I drove through the car wash, out the other side and parked. Popped into the shop, and when I returned 30s later and tried to drive away - BAM. There it was. Very loud banging from underneath, lots of vibration through the clutch pedal and a loud grinding/groaning noise on revving that intensified when the clutch was dipped.
Oh dear. It's not easy to diagnose faults over the internet but I don't think this is going to have a happy ending.
DMF's don't usually fail suddenly like that but the vibration increasing with the clutch dipped puzzles me.
Water drawn into the engine can cause a bent conrod or even a bent or broken crankshaft (which I have a horrible suspicion may be your problem).
I wouldn't start pulling the engine apart though, but I would consider this as a possible cause of your problem.
Have the compressions checked and while the injectors are out, have them turn the crank back and forth to check for any unusual movement or position of the pistons.
Is there much difference from the original symptoms now that a new dmf is fitted?
Solid mass conversions on these engines are a bad idea & tbh im amazed you found a supplier that would sell you one as its known they can cause damage to the crankshafts on these engines.
I fear the damage may have been done & now its to late
Get the gearbox removed & the flywheel replaced & make sure they are using a clutch designed for a dmf as the one supplied with the solid conversion will be differant (another possible cause of ther problem) if the vibration is still presant then either live with it (although something will fail at some point) or get the engine stripped to find out what has happened to it.
I fear the damage may have been done & now its to late
Get the gearbox removed & the flywheel replaced & make sure they are using a clutch designed for a dmf as the one supplied with the solid conversion will be differant (another possible cause of ther problem) if the vibration is still presant then either live with it (although something will fail at some point) or get the engine stripped to find out what has happened to it.
Thanks guys..I had a feeling this wasn't a simple DMF failure. Hmm.
Oakdale - in response to your question, a bit of an original symptom is still there; the vibration/drumming sound you get when the clutch is dipped, especially at high revs. It's especially noticeable when changing up through the gears under moderate/high acceleration. However, it's not present when the car is being driven in-gear like it was initially.
neiljohnson - when the new DMF was put in a DMF-specific clutch was fitted, so we've covered that one.
Oakdale - in response to your question, a bit of an original symptom is still there; the vibration/drumming sound you get when the clutch is dipped, especially at high revs. It's especially noticeable when changing up through the gears under moderate/high acceleration. However, it's not present when the car is being driven in-gear like it was initially.
neiljohnson - when the new DMF was put in a DMF-specific clutch was fitted, so we've covered that one.
Just a thought regarding the previous suggestion of water ingress - how could the water have been inducted? A car wash is only really the equivalent of a heavy shower, and I didn't have the engine running whilst the wash took place. Plus, I've been through that particular wash many times before.
neilwhite123 said:
Just a thought regarding the previous suggestion of water ingress - how could the water have been inducted? A car wash is only really the equivalent of a heavy shower, and I didn't have the engine running whilst the wash took place. Plus, I've been through that particular wash many times before.
It won't have been. If you'd got internal engine damage, you'd know about it, and the problem would amplify as you rev it harder. Also, any imbalance in the flywheel would get significantly worse as the revs increase.
It's very difficult to attempt a diagnosis over the internet, if it's at a specific revs, it sounds like something is resonating, but I've no idea why it's only just started doing this.
It's not something like an injector that isn't working properly is it? They can cause all sorts of vibration and rough running characteristics.
However, and this probably isn't relevant, but when I had a new clutch some years ago (pre-DMF), it came back sounding very rough with a significant amount of vibration etc. It settled down after a few weeks though, and at the time I put it down to the large amount of crud that had been dislodged from the under tray when they did the clutch replacement. Truthfully though, I've no idea what it was.
Good luck with it, hope you find out what's causing the problem soon.
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