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Industry keeping quiet on Haldex 4WD failures

Industry keeping quiet on Haldex 4WD failures

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Discussion

toni2has

Original Poster:

7 posts

70 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Unfortunately it appears my VW Tiguan 4 motion has suffered from a failure of its 4WD involviong the Haldex rear dtive system. In shortI heard a loud bang from under the car after a 30-40 minute period of stop-start motoring in heavy town traffic and roadwoworks. Checked the car underneath no sign of oil leakager and no apparent grinding of gears or drive train, so continued my journey. After some 15-20 mins the tyre pressure warning light came on noting this is not a red light and I was close to hom, I continued caredfully. On checking at home all tyre pressures were at or slightly above manufacturers recommended pressures - no problem there then! Researching this apparent failure reveals it is a topic quite extensively covered in various forums, in particular and notably several VW forums. However, it would appear such failures of the Haldex control system or components incluiding rear differntials can and do occur with other manufacturers vehicles notably 4WD Volvo's and I am told Land Rover's. OK it might be that out of thousands of Haldex units used in any number of vehicles some actually do fail! The question has to be at what cost to undertake what will be a specialist repair operation and whether in say, as in my case of 80k miles; the manufacturer should be liable for a contribution? The other question has to be based on my previous experience with main agents, who are in effect mostly franchised dealerships; is whether they have the expertise in-house to undertake such repairs which will of necessity involve stripping and rebuilding the Haldex and/or rear axle differential components? Comments appreciated but topic is raised as a gentle word of warning to owners of newer non-"torsen" Quattro 4WD vehicles, which rely on the Haldex system to deliver traction. My recommendation make sure you have a good aftermarket warranty such as Warranty Direct if you have a 4WD vehicle out of the original or extended manufacturers warranty.

PositronicRay

10,451 posts

107 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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When did you last change the oil?

Max_Torque

11,766 posts

141 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Manufacturers could make cars that never broke, or failed, or ever went wrong.


Your Tiguan would unfortunately cost over £1M. So whilst indestructable, would also be completely unattainable!



So, cars and durability is a compromise. And that means someones car WILL fail. Thanks to the internet, you now get to hear about these failures, whereas, 20 years ago, there were MORE failure (on much simpler cars) and you just didn't know about them.



So, do i think the manufacturer should pay towards you particular failure? Simple answer is to talk to them and find out. They have "goodwill" funds that are accessable for cases like this (They won't pay carteblanche for everything, but could offer a significant reduction in the costs to repair)


toni2has

Original Poster:

7 posts

70 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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Reply tp PositronicRay and others
Haldex oil chanhged as recommended at 80183 miles 9 months ago. I say recommended as it appears VAG franchised dealers do not routinely advise owners of the need to change the oil at 40000 mile intervals and more importantly it is NOT specified as an essential part of routine servicing. I know I have a 3-year servicing agreement arranged by VW UK Ltd in place specific to my Tiguan but surprise surprise nothing notified by VW in this agreement or advised by the VW dealer who has full history and detail access. It is of course mentioned in the section titled Additional work in Handbook 1.1 Service schedule, which might to some ownewrs appear quite confusing as it attempts to cover all models the "all under one-roof" handbook.

toni2has

Original Poster:

7 posts

70 months

Friday 1st April 2016
quotequote all
Just as an aside for interest. We are familiar with the Haldex principles and operation, we have a VW Bora V6 4motion and also a VW Golf IV V6 4motion in our household. Both of these earler Gen 1 and Gen 2 Haldex iunits have covered well over 100000 miles with no problems - likely reason better quality parts, existence of a seperate pump unit and routine Haldex oil changes having been carried out as recommended by Volkswagen. Incidentally on presenting the VW Bora to a VW franchised dealership to have the Haldex oil and filter changed last year, the agency stated it had not got one!(?).
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kev b

2,126 posts

90 months

Friday 1st April 2016
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I have two friends with Audi TT quattros and another with an A4 quattro, none have ever had their Haldex transmissions serviced and none have failed yet despite them being quite old.

When we were giving one of thse cars a service I looked at changing the Haldex fluid and filter but it was such an expensive ballache of a job, needing special tools etc that the task was "left for another day" as I suspect is the case for most cars with Haldex fitted.

There does not seem to be a rash of broken older quattro transmissions so as you say OP they have either cheapened the job up or you have been unlucky, I would expect any transmission to last for more than 80K miles though so if I were you I would be making a noise at the dealer.

annodomini2

5,493 posts

175 months

Saturday 2nd April 2016
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Tyres been changed in pairs or all 4 at once? Consistent tyre make, brand and size? Haldex doesn't have a centre diff so is affected more by not changing all 4 tyres at once.


griffin dai

2,413 posts

73 months

Saturday 2nd April 2016
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Loads of Insingia VXR's have had Hadlex problems, some of the repair bills are eye watering!!!

Put me right off getting a Saab 9-3 Turbo X frown I'll stick with fwd and put up with a little understeer!


T0M

656 posts

101 months

Saturday 2nd April 2016
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griffin dai said:
Loads of Insingia VXR's have had Hadlex problems, some of the repair bills are eye watering!!!

Put me right off getting a Saab 9-3 Turbo X frown I'll stick with fwd and put up with a little understeer!
This is true, common fault spoiling what is a great car otherwise.

I would have thought with the number of haldex equipped cars on the road now (and rising with the Golf Rs, S/RS models everywhere) there would be specialists popping up who know all the issues and can rectify with far reduced labour and 'needs replacing' attitude...?

griffin dai

2,413 posts

73 months

Saturday 2nd April 2016
quotequote all
T0M said:
This is true, common fault spoiling what is a great car otherwise.

I would have thought with the number of haldex equipped cars on the road now (and rising with the Golf Rs, S/RS models everywhere) there would be specialists popping up who know all the issues and can rectify with far reduced labour and 'needs replacing' attitude...?
Thorney do a Hadlex upgrade for the VXR, these would be my first port of call if I'd gone for the TX instead of my Aero.

http://www.thorney.ms/insignia-vxr-haldex-upgrade....

No idea if they can upgrade/strengthen the VW Haldlex but worth a call to find out smile

Agree on the Insignia VXR, I've only seen a couple on the road but they look (and sound!!) the business cool

Sheepshanks

12,212 posts

43 months

Saturday 2nd April 2016
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toni2has said:
Reply tp PositronicRay and others
Haldex oil chanhged as recommended at 80183 miles 9 months ago. I say recommended as it appears VAG franchised dealers do not routinely advise owners of the need to change the oil at 40000 mile intervals and more importantly it is NOT specified as an essential part of routine servicing. I know I have a 3-year servicing agreement arranged by VW UK Ltd in place specific to my Tiguan but surprise surprise nothing notified by VW in this agreement or advised by the VW dealer who has full history and detail access. It is of course mentioned in the section titled Additional work in Handbook 1.1 Service schedule, which might to some ownewrs appear quite confusing as it attempts to cover all models the "all under one-roof" handbook.
That does annoy me with VW - you can have a service plan but half the stuff that needs doing isn't covered as they say it's a "customer option" not a scheduled service item. Had a row about brake fluid - how is "change at 3yrs, then every 2yrs" not a schedule?

Stiggolas

194 posts

71 months

Tuesday 5th April 2016
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"I have two friends with Audi TT quattros and another with an A4 quattro, none have ever had their Haldex transmissions serviced and none have failed yet despite them being quite old."

I believe Audis with transverse engines, A3, TT etc have the Haldex system, A4s are longitudinal and have a different Quattro system (Torsen based?)
Feel free to beat me up if I'm wrong though smile

kev b

2,126 posts

90 months

Tuesday 5th April 2016
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I stand corrected, neither the torsen system or the haldex have failed.......yet?

dvinell

8 posts

35 months

Wednesday 11th October
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I run an Insignia VXR, and I'm on Haldex No 3.

First one failed at 20k.
Latest one failed at 40k.
(spot the pattern?)

Failure = Lots of vibration accelerating around a corner. Haldex oil is found to contain large amounts of metal swarf.

Fortunately these have all been covered by the warranty, but this doesn't inspire me with confidence for running this car as a long term proposition - paying for it yourself would be £2k for the part plus maybe three hours labour.

It could be that I'm doing something wrong, but it's not as if the car is getting ragged: the first set of tyres lasted 26k miles. All tyres are Pirellis, oem fitment, approx same treadwear. I could drive like Grandma (e.g. no full throttle in 3rd) but what's the point of a quick car if it keeps breaking when you try using the performance? The other possibility is that it's getting messed up by the very tight junctions that I have to pull out of, near where I live. The first four or five junctions need almost full steering lock in 1st gear, but that's not something I can fix easily without a JCB frown

Edited by dvinell on Wednesday 11th October 10:18

Robmarriott

947 posts

82 months

Wednesday 11th October
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toni2has said:
Reply tp PositronicRay and others
Haldex oil chanhged as recommended at 80183 miles 9 months ago. I say recommended as it appears VAG franchised dealers do not routinely advise owners of the need to change the oil at 40000 mile intervals and more importantly it is NOT specified as an essential part of routine servicing. I know I have a 3-year servicing agreement arranged by VW UK Ltd in place specific to my Tiguan but surprise surprise nothing notified by VW in this agreement or advised by the VW dealer who has full history and detail access. It is of course mentioned in the section titled Additional work in Handbook 1.1 Service schedule, which might to some ownewrs appear quite confusing as it attempts to cover all models the "all under one-roof" handbook.
Having worked for a VAG specialist in the past, the service books were always very clear about Haldex servicing, stating that it should have an oil and filter change every 40,000 miles. I've never seen a service book say 80,000 miles for Haldex.

Do you have a picture of the page in the service book?

Sheepshanks

12,212 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th October
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Robmarriott said:
Having worked for a VAG specialist in the past, the service books were always very clear about Haldex servicing, stating that it should have an oil and filter change every 40,000 miles. I've never seen a service book say 80,000 miles for Haldex.
I've seen it suggested on VW forums that 40K is far too long, with one poster strongly saying the oil should be changed every 10K.