RRS TDV6 - fault codes P22D3 and P22CF
Discussion
My boss's 2010 RRS TDV6 3.0 has thrown error codes P22D3 and P22CF which relate to the turbo inlet valves sticking. He's been quoted £5k to fix as apparently it's a 'body off' job. Obviously he's keen to try and avoid that costly scenario without trying everything else he can!
Is there any chance anyone can recommend a flushing product or solution which might resolve the sticking? Is there anything else he can do before having to resort to such costly work...?
Is there any chance anyone can recommend a flushing product or solution which might resolve the sticking? Is there anything else he can do before having to resort to such costly work...?
Indeed the book way is to remove the body from the chassis, but you can actually remove the N/S/F suspension and heat shields etc, drill out one of the bolts and the turbo comes out via the gearbox and chassis leg backwards. I've done this 3 times now, the variable vanes in the turbos carbon up and stick and that puts the error codes up.
k20erham said:
Indeed the book way is to remove the body from the chassis, but you can actually remove the N/S/F suspension and heat shields etc, drill out one of the bolts and the turbo comes out via the gearbox and chassis leg backwards. I've done this 3 times now, the variable vanes in the turbos carbon up and stick and that puts the error codes up.
Do you know if anyone on the South coast who would be capable of doing this?To be honest that most likely will not be a turbo fault. Those dtcs relate the to the turbo shut off valve.
This is a vacuum operated on/off switch if you like for the fixed vane secondary turbo on the drivers side. The switch is required to enable the turbo which is static until required. If you leave the vehcile ticking over for perhaps 5-10 minutes you will hear the engine tone get deeper. This is the valve being operated to allow the turbo to rotate and thus prevent prolonged static periods which used to allow oil seepage.
The codes log when the tsov solenoid valve is opened in order to apply a vacuum to the tsov but the hall sensor mounted to the tsov doesn't show the valve has fully opened. This can be tested with a mitivac/vacuum guage/datalogger etc.
Likely causes are split vacuum hose on the vacuum network thus insufficient vacuum applied to the valve, faulty solenoid (mounted on the centre of the timing belt cover) or least likely faulty tsov. Worst case though if the tsov needs changing it's about three hours total and no reason to remove body. Make sure the position sensor limits are learnt on refit!
This is a vacuum operated on/off switch if you like for the fixed vane secondary turbo on the drivers side. The switch is required to enable the turbo which is static until required. If you leave the vehcile ticking over for perhaps 5-10 minutes you will hear the engine tone get deeper. This is the valve being operated to allow the turbo to rotate and thus prevent prolonged static periods which used to allow oil seepage.
The codes log when the tsov solenoid valve is opened in order to apply a vacuum to the tsov but the hall sensor mounted to the tsov doesn't show the valve has fully opened. This can be tested with a mitivac/vacuum guage/datalogger etc.
Likely causes are split vacuum hose on the vacuum network thus insufficient vacuum applied to the valve, faulty solenoid (mounted on the centre of the timing belt cover) or least likely faulty tsov. Worst case though if the tsov needs changing it's about three hours total and no reason to remove body. Make sure the position sensor limits are learnt on refit!
Scortedvan said:
To be honest that most likely will not be a turbo fault. Those dtcs relate the to the turbo shut off valve.
This is a vacuum operated on/off switch if you like for the fixed vane secondary turbo on the drivers side. The switch is required to enable the turbo which is static until required. If you leave the vehcile ticking over for perhaps 5-10 minutes you will hear the engine tone get deeper. This is the valve being operated to allow the turbo to rotate and thus prevent prolonged static periods which used to allow oil seepage.
The codes log when the tsov solenoid valve is opened in order to apply a vacuum to the tsov but the hall sensor mounted to the tsov doesn't show the valve has fully opened. This can be tested with a mitivac/vacuum guage/datalogger etc.
Likely causes are split vacuum hose on the vacuum network thus insufficient vacuum applied to the valve, faulty solenoid (mounted on the centre of the timing belt cover) or least likely faulty tsov. Worst case though if the tsov needs changing it's about three hours total and no reason to remove body. Make sure the position sensor limits are learnt on refit!
Don't know where you are in the UK but with a £5k bill in the offing it sounds like the OPs boss would do well to come see you.This is a vacuum operated on/off switch if you like for the fixed vane secondary turbo on the drivers side. The switch is required to enable the turbo which is static until required. If you leave the vehcile ticking over for perhaps 5-10 minutes you will hear the engine tone get deeper. This is the valve being operated to allow the turbo to rotate and thus prevent prolonged static periods which used to allow oil seepage.
The codes log when the tsov solenoid valve is opened in order to apply a vacuum to the tsov but the hall sensor mounted to the tsov doesn't show the valve has fully opened. This can be tested with a mitivac/vacuum guage/datalogger etc.
Likely causes are split vacuum hose on the vacuum network thus insufficient vacuum applied to the valve, faulty solenoid (mounted on the centre of the timing belt cover) or least likely faulty tsov. Worst case though if the tsov needs changing it's about three hours total and no reason to remove body. Make sure the position sensor limits are learnt on refit!
Steve
Hi - I know this thread is old but I have the exact same codes "P22D3-77 turbo charger turbine inlet valve stuck closed & P22CF-71 turbo charger turbine inlet valve control circuit - open" on my 2010 Jaguar XF 3.0 diesel and hoping someone can help me because I've been to several garages including specialist and spoken with many on the internet and I still get restricted performance warning when booting it (usually if I go in to sport mode as this obviously lifts the revs beyond the 2800 rpm range). A lot of the time it's fine even driving hard, just don't know.
I have tried:
Smoke test - all fine
New turbo shut off valve
New vacuum solenoid switch
Compressor shut off valve vacuum tested and arm moving
I have had lots of advice and have read up on the twin turbo setup but still can't get to the bottom of it, any help would be very much appreciated thanks.
I have tried:
Smoke test - all fine
New turbo shut off valve
New vacuum solenoid switch
Compressor shut off valve vacuum tested and arm moving
I have had lots of advice and have read up on the twin turbo setup but still can't get to the bottom of it, any help would be very much appreciated thanks.
Afraid I can't help specifically with your error...
This got much worse for my boss's RRS than my original post unfortunately... After endless woes with the car it ended up needing a full engine strip down, refurb and rebuild, replaced both turbos (the body's been on and off multiple times) and the gearbox packed up too needing a full refurb. The problem is that he ended up so far into it financially he had no choice but to keep repairing - it's cost him well into 5 figures unfortunately but at each stage thinking that "..this will finally sort it..."
It's been the car from hell and he says he'll never have another JLR car as a result.
This got much worse for my boss's RRS than my original post unfortunately... After endless woes with the car it ended up needing a full engine strip down, refurb and rebuild, replaced both turbos (the body's been on and off multiple times) and the gearbox packed up too needing a full refurb. The problem is that he ended up so far into it financially he had no choice but to keep repairing - it's cost him well into 5 figures unfortunately but at each stage thinking that "..this will finally sort it..."
It's been the car from hell and he says he'll never have another JLR car as a result.
Funk said:
Afraid I can't help specifically with your error...
This got much worse for my boss's RRS than my original post unfortunately... After endless woes with the car it ended up needing a full engine strip down, refurb and rebuild, replaced both turbos (the body's been on and off multiple times) and the gearbox packed up too needing a full refurb. The problem is that he ended up so far into it financially he had no choice but to keep repairing - it's cost him well into 5 figures unfortunately but at each stage thinking that "..this will finally sort it..."
It's been the car from hell and he says he'll never have another JLR car as a result.
Sounds terrible but thanks for replying! Surprised to hear there were so many further issues as this is normally fairly straight forward to diagnose and fix. I'm begging to think I should have stayed with BMW and after this I probably will but just fancied a change. It's such a shame because they are great cars to drive.This got much worse for my boss's RRS than my original post unfortunately... After endless woes with the car it ended up needing a full engine strip down, refurb and rebuild, replaced both turbos (the body's been on and off multiple times) and the gearbox packed up too needing a full refurb. The problem is that he ended up so far into it financially he had no choice but to keep repairing - it's cost him well into 5 figures unfortunately but at each stage thinking that "..this will finally sort it..."
It's been the car from hell and he says he'll never have another JLR car as a result.
If anyone else has any ideas it would be very much appreciated, thanks.
Mottok76 said:
Sounds terrible but thanks for replying! Surprised to hear there were so many further issues as this is normally fairly straight forward to diagnose and fix. I'm begging to think I should have stayed with BMW and after this I probably will but just fancied a change. It's such a shame because they are great cars to drive.
If anyone else has any ideas it would be very much appreciated, thanks.
Yeah, more and more just kept going wrong with it and he got to the point he had no choice but to keep going. Fingers crossed it's been OK for a little while now and I think he plans to run it into the ground to get his money's worth out of it. I've told him I think he should shift it on while it's OK but essentially everything that could gone wrong has gone wrong and - in theory - is now fixed...If anyone else has any ideas it would be very much appreciated, thanks.
Mottok76 said:
Hi - I know this thread is old but I have the exact same codes "P22D3-77 turbo charger turbine inlet valve stuck closed & P22CF-71 turbo charger turbine inlet valve control circuit - open" on my 2010 Jaguar XF 3.0 diesel and hoping someone can help me because I've been to several garages including specialist and spoken with many on the internet and I still get restricted performance warning when booting it (usually if I go in to sport mode as this obviously lifts the revs beyond the 2800 rpm range). A lot of the time it's fine even driving hard, just don't know.
I have tried:
Smoke test - all fine
New turbo shut off valve
New vacuum solenoid switch
Compressor shut off valve vacuum tested and arm moving
I have had lots of advice and have read up on the twin turbo setup but still can't get to the bottom of it, any help would be very much appreciated thanks.
Hello!!!!! I have the same error! Did also all tests. Did you manage to find the fault?I have tried:
Smoke test - all fine
New turbo shut off valve
New vacuum solenoid switch
Compressor shut off valve vacuum tested and arm moving
I have had lots of advice and have read up on the twin turbo setup but still can't get to the bottom of it, any help would be very much appreciated thanks.
Hi, i did out a response on this thread about what triggers these dtcs if you have a look back. In summary though, when the tsov is actuated by the tsov solenoid .. its not opening to 100%. Im not aware of any other reason they log simultaneously.
Really simple test - put a vac gauge in the supply line to the tsov. Start the engine - you should see no vacuum. Leave the engine idling for around 5 minutes till the tsov is operated to spool the secondary turbo ( you will hear this happen as the engine tone will change slightly). Yo should now see approximately 1bar of vacuum. If yes - the vacuum network is fine. If no - you have a leak or restriction in the vacuum network and you should work backwards to isolate this. This is more often the issue - on Land Rovers the active engine mounts leak and cause vac leaks, on jags some of the vac ‘t’ pieces were never fully drilled through. On both, loads of split pipes, chaffes etc etc.
If you do see sufficient vacuum, blip the throttle and the tsov will close. You would now need to view the tsov postion on live data to ensure its more or less 100% when open, and 0% when its closed - this will prove the TSOV operation to a degree. If you get to here with no conclusion id be very surprised, but there are more tests that on occasion will be done.
Simple
Really simple test - put a vac gauge in the supply line to the tsov. Start the engine - you should see no vacuum. Leave the engine idling for around 5 minutes till the tsov is operated to spool the secondary turbo ( you will hear this happen as the engine tone will change slightly). Yo should now see approximately 1bar of vacuum. If yes - the vacuum network is fine. If no - you have a leak or restriction in the vacuum network and you should work backwards to isolate this. This is more often the issue - on Land Rovers the active engine mounts leak and cause vac leaks, on jags some of the vac ‘t’ pieces were never fully drilled through. On both, loads of split pipes, chaffes etc etc.
If you do see sufficient vacuum, blip the throttle and the tsov will close. You would now need to view the tsov postion on live data to ensure its more or less 100% when open, and 0% when its closed - this will prove the TSOV operation to a degree. If you get to here with no conclusion id be very surprised, but there are more tests that on occasion will be done.
Simple
Edited by Scortedvan on Thursday 13th February 22:39
Edited by Scortedvan on Thursday 13th February 22:41
The TSOV is the valve on the back of the secondary turbo on the right hand bank. It has a three pin connector which is for the position sensor and a vacuum pipe for actuation. When closed, all exhaust gasses from the bank are diverted across the cross over pipe over the transmission, to the primary turbo. At this time the secondary turbo is stationary. This allows the vehicle to operate as a single turbo setup for times when low output is needed. Generally if you only ever drive around very gently these faults dont log, as the TSOV isn't required to open.
When the vehicle is driven hard and a greater output is required, the PCM switches to transitional and then twin turbo modes. In order to do this, the TSOV opens and diverts exhaust gasses away from the crossover pipe instead through the secondary turbo - the turbo begins spooling and you are now in twin turbo mode.
When the PCM requests the TSOV to be opened, which it does by actuating the TSOV vacuum solenoid (small black solenoid with a 2 pin electrical connector and three small pipes going to it, one of which will be from the TSOV obviously) and thus applying a vacuum of 1Bar to the TSOV, it should fully open. The PCM confirms this by the position sensor on the back of the TSOV. This is where you would need to see the measured position on live data. You can also force this open ,manually by disconnecting the vacuum pipe and attaching a mitivac to the valve, and then you can watch the measured position change as you open it.
There are other things that can cause these codes, but if they only ever log together, and with no others.. then this is the most appropriate test plan.
When the vehicle is driven hard and a greater output is required, the PCM switches to transitional and then twin turbo modes. In order to do this, the TSOV opens and diverts exhaust gasses away from the crossover pipe instead through the secondary turbo - the turbo begins spooling and you are now in twin turbo mode.
When the PCM requests the TSOV to be opened, which it does by actuating the TSOV vacuum solenoid (small black solenoid with a 2 pin electrical connector and three small pipes going to it, one of which will be from the TSOV obviously) and thus applying a vacuum of 1Bar to the TSOV, it should fully open. The PCM confirms this by the position sensor on the back of the TSOV. This is where you would need to see the measured position on live data. You can also force this open ,manually by disconnecting the vacuum pipe and attaching a mitivac to the valve, and then you can watch the measured position change as you open it.
There are other things that can cause these codes, but if they only ever log together, and with no others.. then this is the most appropriate test plan.
Before you start tearing into it check, or have checked the PCM.
Code P22CF is; Turbocharger (TC) inlet valve - control circuit open
So if the control circuit has a fault this will also trigger a code showing that the valve is not working, which of course it isn't because it's not being told to open or close by the PCM.
Code P22CF is; Turbocharger (TC) inlet valve - control circuit open
So if the control circuit has a fault this will also trigger a code showing that the valve is not working, which of course it isn't because it's not being told to open or close by the PCM.
Moulton -
TSOV (Turbo Shut Off Valve) is mounted on the back of the secondary turbo and diverts exhaust gas either to the turbo or across the crossover pipe.
CSOV (Compressor Shut Off Valve) goes in the lower boost hose by the drivers headlight and connects the output from the secondary turbo to the intercooler when full twin turbo mode is engaged (after the transitional period where the turbo is allowed time to spool)
There is boost actuator on the primary turbo which operates the vanes on the variable geometry turbo as per any other electrically controlled turbo.
There is also a small solenoid valve know as a recirc valve mounted on the CSOV. When the CSOV is closed, but the TSOV has been operated, it opens to allow the secondary turbo to begin spooling - this connects the secondary turbo output, to the primary turbo input. The output pressure is monitored via a secondary pressure sensor, and when the output pressure is equal to that in the manifold, the recirc’ valve closes and the CSOV opens to twin turbo mode. This is the transitional state i refer to above.
TSOV (Turbo Shut Off Valve) is mounted on the back of the secondary turbo and diverts exhaust gas either to the turbo or across the crossover pipe.
CSOV (Compressor Shut Off Valve) goes in the lower boost hose by the drivers headlight and connects the output from the secondary turbo to the intercooler when full twin turbo mode is engaged (after the transitional period where the turbo is allowed time to spool)
There is boost actuator on the primary turbo which operates the vanes on the variable geometry turbo as per any other electrically controlled turbo.
There is also a small solenoid valve know as a recirc valve mounted on the CSOV. When the CSOV is closed, but the TSOV has been operated, it opens to allow the secondary turbo to begin spooling - this connects the secondary turbo output, to the primary turbo input. The output pressure is monitored via a secondary pressure sensor, and when the output pressure is equal to that in the manifold, the recirc’ valve closes and the CSOV opens to twin turbo mode. This is the transitional state i refer to above.
Edited by Scortedvan on Tuesday 2nd June 19:45
Edited by Scortedvan on Tuesday 2nd June 19:52
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