Car won't start. Turns over, no fuel or spark.
Discussion
Stick a small bulb in the circuit in place of the fuse to make sure the dead short has been resolved before you replace the fuse? If you know that the short is between the fuse holder and ground and that side of the fuse holder should never see any positive voltage, you could also connect a resistance meter to the side of the fuse holder that is being grounded. Either way would let you track down the short without burning through your stock of fuses. But do note if you use a resistance meter that some meters can be damaged by connecting a voltage difference across them.
Made some progress today and started investigating the extent of my wiring problem. It was much worse and more extensive than I feared. Huge amounts of wire have become exposed with the outer plastic just crumbling away. I got stuck in and managed to remove the entire upper engine loom from the yellow 20A fuse which keeps blowing, to the big ECU connector and a plethora of other diverse connections.
I have made contact with a couple of Vauxhall breakers on E bay to see if they have a loom. I have seen one for a 2,6 litre (sadly not compatible) for just 35 GBP so if I can get one for similar money then it will be a cheap fix.
Removed engine loom:
|https://thumbsnap.com/JnUm3JT9[/url]
Crumbling wires:
Amazingly, prior to this, I have had no electrical problems at all. It is probably a wonder there was not a serious engine fire!
I have made contact with a couple of Vauxhall breakers on E bay to see if they have a loom. I have seen one for a 2,6 litre (sadly not compatible) for just 35 GBP so if I can get one for similar money then it will be a cheap fix.
Removed engine loom:
|https://thumbsnap.com/JnUm3JT9[/url]Crumbling wires:
Amazingly, prior to this, I have had no electrical problems at all. It is probably a wonder there was not a serious engine fire!
Edited by el romeral on Sunday 7th May 23:56
.GreenV8S said:
You have the ECU connector and most of the engine connectors are going to be standard commonly available ones. You already have the original to show the wiring logic and loom lengths. Have you considered just making your own copy?
I hadn't actually, due to my rather poor electrical knowledge. Now you mention it, it may be a possibility if a used one does not appear in the next few weeks. I imagine, though, that there are several grades or thicknesses of wire, which could be problematical to source?Would have been a great winter project.
There a various companies selling automotive grade wire in a range of colours, current rating etc, as well as connector housings and terminals. Some of them also offer partially assembled looms. Vehicle Wiring Products, Auto Electric Supplies, Stafford Vehicle Components, Auto Sparks are a few well known ones. If you decide to DIY, getting the wire shouldn't be a problem.
If your not confident making your own an auto electrician will be able to it. I had one made for my Merc by Si-Leck
http://www.sileck.co.uk/
Very happy with the end product too.
http://www.sileck.co.uk/
Very happy with the end product too.
GreenV8S said:
PositronicRay said:
I had one made for my Merc by Si-Leck
Interesting. How much did they charge?Mid 90s Mercs had soy based biodegradable engine loom insulation. It tends to hang on until disturbed..................
Brilliant, thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. Up to now I had more or less been thinking that if I was not able to source a second hand loom then it would likely be the end of the road for the V6. Glad to hear there are other viable options. I will look into them.
From the description and the picture of the failed Mercedes wiring, I'd say that my similar era Opel, used the same electrical supplier!
From the description and the picture of the failed Mercedes wiring, I'd say that my similar era Opel, used the same electrical supplier!
el romeral said:
Brilliant, thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. Up to now I had more or less been thinking that if I was not able to source a second hand loom then it would likely be the end of the road for the V6. Glad to hear there are other viable options. I will look into them.
From the description and the picture of the failed Mercedes wiring, I'd say that my similar era Opel, used the same electrical supplier!
I think Bosch made the originals. On MBs 3 x engine harnesses were affected, around 93-97 From the description and the picture of the failed Mercedes wiring, I'd say that my similar era Opel, used the same electrical supplier!
Main harness, throttle body and lower harness (pictured)
Strangely enough I thought mine was ok, the wires to the coils were nice and pliant , turned out some new wires had been spliced into a rotten harness, I suspect this was an MB dealer during a plug change many years ago.
Si-leck dremels the old plugs apart, re solders them into the new harness, fixing the plugs back together with epoxy. Nice guy and a very neat job.
Edited by PositronicRay on Saturday 27th May 17:34
Edited by PositronicRay on Saturday 27th May 17:35
Get yourself a wiring diagram and have a look at somewhere like demon tweeks as you will need to use automotive or marine grade cable. If you're methodical and take your time you can rebuild the wiring harness yourself. Get a decent meter and ring through every connector as you make them off. A decent crimp tool and new pins are a must.
Thought I would update with some recent events. Can't believe this has been rumbling on so long, had to go back 9 pages to find the thread!
I gave the loom to an electrician who does jobs for me on the house. He said he could do all necessery repairs to it. This took months due to him being too busy. Finally got it back and fitted it. This time the car fired up perfectly with no blown ecu fuse. My elation was short lived, however, as when I swittched off and removed the key, the engine kept on running exactly as before. Stalling was the only way to stop it.
Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
After discovering this, I found a loom from a 2,5 GSi on Gumtree UK and bought it. Once again, my elation at the possibility of solving the problems were short lived as RHD cars have the main ECU plug on the other side of the engine from mine, so all wires in the loom are the wrong length making it unsuitable. I never even thought to check this, just assumed that the engines were identical between LHD and RHD.
I gave the loom to an electrician who does jobs for me on the house. He said he could do all necessery repairs to it. This took months due to him being too busy. Finally got it back and fitted it. This time the car fired up perfectly with no blown ecu fuse. My elation was short lived, however, as when I swittched off and removed the key, the engine kept on running exactly as before. Stalling was the only way to stop it.
Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
After discovering this, I found a loom from a 2,5 GSi on Gumtree UK and bought it. Once again, my elation at the possibility of solving the problems were short lived as RHD cars have the main ECU plug on the other side of the engine from mine, so all wires in the loom are the wrong length making it unsuitable. I never even thought to check this, just assumed that the engines were identical between LHD and RHD.
Edited by el romeral on Saturday 21st October 09:52
el romeral said:
Thought I would update with some recent events. Can't believe this has been rumbling on so long, had to go back 9 pages to find the thread!
I gave the loom to an electrician who does jobs for me on the house. He said he could do all necessery repairs to it. This took months due to him being too busy. Finally got it back and fitted it. This time the car fired up perfectly with no blown ecu fuse. My elation was short lived, however, as when I swittched off and removed the key, the engine kept on running exactly as before. Stalling was the only way to stop it.
Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
After discovering this, I found a loom from a 2,5 GSi on Gumtree UK and bought it. Once again, my elation at the possibility of solving the problems were short lived as RHD cars have the main ECU plug on the other side of the engine from mine, so all wires in the loom are the wrong length making it unsuitable. I never even thought to check this, just assumed that the engines were identical between LHD and RHD.
Have you checked the ignition switch? I gave the loom to an electrician who does jobs for me on the house. He said he could do all necessery repairs to it. This took months due to him being too busy. Finally got it back and fitted it. This time the car fired up perfectly with no blown ecu fuse. My elation was short lived, however, as when I swittched off and removed the key, the engine kept on running exactly as before. Stalling was the only way to stop it.
Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
After discovering this, I found a loom from a 2,5 GSi on Gumtree UK and bought it. Once again, my elation at the possibility of solving the problems were short lived as RHD cars have the main ECU plug on the other side of the engine from mine, so all wires in the loom are the wrong length making it unsuitable. I never even thought to check this, just assumed that the engines were identical between LHD and RHD.
Edited by el romeral on Saturday 21st October 09:52
It should be straightforward to extend the new loom if you want to use it.
PositronicRay said:
Have you checked the ignition switch?
It should be straightforward to extend the new loom if you want to use it.
No not checked the ignition switch. I assumed the problem would be related to things with the repaired loom, or other factors as a result of problems with the loom?It should be straightforward to extend the new loom if you want to use it.
With the UK loom, I could look at how many and which wires require lengthening - will be over half of it though.
el romeral said:
when I swittched off and removed the key, the engine kept on running exactly as before. Stalling was the only way to stop it.
Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
The ECU would probably have one permanent live supply and one ignition switched supply to it. Perhaps these have been swapped over during the rewiring?Is this likely to be caused by more shorting wires which the electrician did not spot, or could it be something else?
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