Water Methanol Injection kit recommendation?

[Stuballs]

Hi there

There are of course several options for water/meth injection kits in the UK. Anyone have any experiences good or bad with what's on offer?

Snow performance/AEM/Devils own?

Cheers

Stu

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Background in case you're interested:

I built a Rover K-series with a 1.9 Scholar block. GT2560R turbo. steel rods, forged pistons, all balanced etc. Problem I had was an incorrectly advertised compression ratio for the pistons. Long story short, I ended up with a CR of ~11:1. Even with 7psi of boost I'm very det limited. Still makes 235bhp but it's very flat in the midrange.

I have a set of shorter rods to use in a winter rebuild, but I thought as an experiment I would see what water/meth could do.

I'm well aware of the risks hazards, etc and will take necessary precautions.

[HappyMidget]

Got a Devils Own kit sat around at home waiting for me to fit it to my car as IATs are getting rather high. Plenty of the HSV lot have and recommend the Devils Own kits

[HappyMidget]

http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?rout...

[GreenV8S]

I used an Aquamist system which just turns on with a pressure switch and has fixed flow controlled by the jet. This is the minimal cheap and cheerful solution and they offer much more capable (and expensive) systems. The only smarts are a controller which has under- / over-flow flow rate sensing to tell the ECU whether it's safe to run with boost. It seems to operate OK and uses up water/meth mixture at the expected rate. Not easy to tell how much impact it had on charge temps since there is a big temperature lag in the system - in my case I can run dry without any problems most of the time and this is just extra insurance.

[Boosted LS1]

I made a very simple kit that works by boost pressure above the water. It had welding nozzle tips that squirted into the compressors. I next used a simple Edlebrock controller that cost about $200 (20 years ago).

When I use it again I'll buy a pair of atomisers but I'll still use the Edlebrock.

[stevieturbo]

Of all the kits, Aquamist is probably the best.

Yes you can go very simple, or for much more precise control, entirely up to you

One of their higher end kits

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-063-hfs3-v3-1-s...

Do you always need to spend that much ? maybe not, it depends on what you really want to do or how much assistance from the kit you really need etc.
But the likes of the above offers far better control and safeties vs the cheap kits.

[227bhp]

I'd go with Aquamist. They have lot of experience, good kit, are local and have their own forum. Snow and Devils own are also very good, but won't have the same back up when you need to ask a question or replace something etc.

[HappyMidget]

227bhp said:

I'd go with Aquamist. They have lot of experience, good kit, are local and have their own forum. Snow and Devils own are also very good, but won't have the same back up when you need to ask a question or replace something etc.

Add Bruce Morris on Facebook as he supplies the DO stuff. Really good support from him

[packman10_4]

We added Devils kit to a 2.0 TFSI Golf ... this added nearly 40hp on the dyno we have just short of 570 hp now .... well worth the money we use water/meth mix ...

[chuntington101]

packman10_4 said:

We added Devils kit to a 2.0 TFSI Golf ... this added nearly 40hp on the dyno we have just short of 570 hp now .... well worth the money we use water/meth mix ...

Is the tube dependent on the water meth though or do you just get an extra 40bhp when running it?

If your tune is dependent you are risking a lot of the pump fails / nozzles block. What failsafes are built into the tune? If the pump stops will, for example, the IATs go that high that the ecu will cut power?

[E-bmw]

I don't know about the OP obviously, but don't these kits normally have a sensor (tank level or liquid pressure) that changes the timing etc back to pre-W/Meth conditions when it is not detected? Of course this would be either ECU map or knock reliant I assume.

[stevieturbo]

E-bmw said:

I don't know about the OP obviously, but don't these kits normally have a sensor (tank level or liquid pressure) that changes the timing etc back to pre-W/Meth conditions when it is not detected? Of course this would be either ECU map or knock reliant I assume.

kits can have many things, if they offer then and the user buys them.

Likewise some ecu's can do many things...some very little

[GreenV8S]

If you rely on the injection system IMO it has to be fail safe. The high-/low-flow alarms and reservoir level switch is all my cheap setup has, but it's enough to give me peace of mind. (The ECU defaults to a very conservative map unless it gets a 'go' signal from the WI system.)

[Stuballs]

Thanks for all the replies.

I will be tuning for the water meth (because of the det issues with my high compression) so will need a failsafe that monitors flow and switches my Emerald to a safe map if the system detects an issue. Looks like the aquarist can do that I think. Not sure if the Devils Own does (need to read up a bit more on that). Aem defo does - it uses a flow meter to monitor actual flow and the guage has outputs you can send to the ecu to switch maps /retard ignition/reduce boost.

On my setup the failsafe would have to be able to switch to my safe map ideally - reducing boost to actuator pressure by interrupting the solenoid feed wouldn't be enough as I still get det at 7psi!

[GreenV8S]

If you rely on the WI then it would be sensible to design the ECU input circuit so it defaults to the 'safe' mode i.e. if the circuit to the WI system fails.

[Ive]

Stu,
I have helped someone implement a Aquamist HFS3 system on a Elise with a supercharged K.
if its flow sensor detect a fail safe condition, it does two things. it opens waste gate on a pressure line that limits boost to spring pressure. the same output is trigger the map switch on the Emerald K3/K6. Works a treat. any issue and it instantly drops to 0.4 bar max boost on a no-W/M map.

My own system was based on a Aquamist 2c system with their HSV high speed valve. I controlled the HSV through the Emerald boost map. it acts like a 5th fuel injector.
Pump got replaced by a membrane pump, but the principle did not change. My system had no controller of its own.
Worked for years including track days. The K loves water methanol on boost. But you have to map for it incl. the ignition timing.
It needs a fair amount of ignition advance to work and make power.

Both cars use direct port injection with 4x 0.4mm c type jets (now available with integrated check valves) fitting on the VVC plenum bottom piece a few cm behind the fuel injectors.
Best distribution and effectiveness.
Don't bother with central injection. The VVC plenum and its turns will remove most mist from the air stream besides poor distribution across cylinders.
You'll burn lots of mix for little effect.
Maybe worth checking http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/forumdi... on several direct port topics.
I post there as "Rotrex".

if you need more info, we can get in touch. I also have picture were to position jets, Emerald maps to share etc.

[Stuballs]

Ive said:

...
if you need more info, we can get in touch. I also have picture were to position jets, Emerald maps to share etc.

Thanks Marko

Sorry hadn't realised you had replied. Appreciate the offer of help!