Valve To Camshaft Clearances 1 Exhaust Too Big

[Mignon]

This new account I was forced to create was set up with a throwaway email account so no you can't. Just let me know in here if you do get stuck and I'll send you an actual email account which if you realised who I actually am you could probably work out or find on google anyway.

[Steve_D]

You will measure the clearances then measure the shim and calculate the shim you need for that position.
However, don't forget a shim that is no longer suitable for one position may now be the right size for another. With a bit of luck you may not need to buy/source too many.

Steve

[Penelope Stopit]

Mignon
Ok. Thanks for that, I think I know but hadn't thought about it earlier

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 18th May 13:28

[Krikkit]

From servicebox, part#s for the shims:
(Seem to be about £3-4 each before any cheeky discount you might be able to negotiate)
Part // Thickness (mm)

1. 0906 92 EP 1,65
2. 0906 91 EP 1,725
3. 0906 90 EP 1,8
4. 0906 89 EP 1,9
5. 0906 88 EP 1,975
6. 0906 87 EP 2,05
7. 0906 86 EP 2,125
8. 0906 62 EP 2,225
9. 0906 63 EP 2,250
10. 0906 64 EP 2,275
11. 0906 65 EP 2,3
12. 0906 66 EP 2,325
13. 0906 67 EP 2,350
14. 0906 68 EP 2,375
15. 0906 69 EP 2,4
16. 0906 46 EP 2,425
17. 0906 70 EP 2,450
18. 0906 71 EP 2,475
19. 0906 47 EP 2,5
20. 0906 72 EP 2,525
21. 0906 73 EP 2,55
22. 0906 48 EP 2,575
23. 0906 74 EP 2,6
24. 0906 75 EP 2,625
25. 0906 49 EP 2,65
26. 0906 76 EP 2,675
27. 0906 77 EP 2,7
28. 0906 50 EP 2,725
29. 0906 78 EP 2,75
30. 0906 79 EP 2,775
31. 0906 51 EP 2,8
32. 0906 80 EP 2,825
33. 0906 81 EP 2,85
34. 0906 52 EP 2,875
35. 0906 82 EP 2,9
36. 0906 83 EP 2,925
37. 0906 53 EP 2,950
38. 0906 84 EP 2,975
39. 0906 85 EP 3
40. 0906 54 EP 3,025
41. 0907 07 EP 3,05
42. 0907 08 EP 3,075
43. 0906 55 EP 3,1
44. 0907 09 EP 3,125
45. 0907 10 EP 3,15
46. 0906 56 EP 3,175
47. 0907 11 EP 3,2
48. 0907 12 EP 3,225
49. 0906 57 EP 3,25
50. 0907 13 EP 3,275
51. 0907 14 EP 3,3
52. 0906 58 EP 3,325
53. 0907 15 EP 3,35
54. 0907 16 EP 3,375
55. 0906 59 EP 3,4
56. 0907 17 EP 3,425
57. 0907 18 EP 3,450
58. 0906 60 EP 3,475
59. 0907 19 EP 3,5
60. 0906 61 EP 3,55
61. 0906 93 EP 3,625
62. 0906 94 EP 3,7
63. 0906 95 EP 3,775
64. 0906 96 EP 3,85
65. 0906 97 EP 3,925
66. 0906 98 EP 4

Edited by Krikkit on Friday 18th May 13:17

[Penelope Stopit]

Steve_D said:

You will measure the clearances then measure the shim and calculate the shim you need for that position.
However, don't forget a shim that is no longer suitable for one position may now be the right size for another. With a bit of luck you may not need to buy/source too many.

Steve

Thanks
I know what you mean but I doubt me being that lucky
Mignon has moved me away from the manufacturers clearances with tolerances over to his recommended clearances, I will be shimming the Inlets to 0.2mm and the exhausts to 0.3mm
If I do find a place with shims they may have plenty of them and that will make life much easier

[Penelope Stopit]

Krikkitt
Thanks for the list

[Mignon]

Penelope Stopit said:

Ok. Thanks for that, I think I know but hadn't thought about it earlier

Usually once you've juggled the shims around to new positions you only need to buy 3 or 4 new sizes to shim all 8 valves properly. If you do your measurements and work out which sizes you need I'll check if I have them all and then you can send me a stamped addressed envelope with the old shims you don't need and a small beer donation and I'll swap them for the correct sizes and post it back.

As to clearances, remember that when you measure with feeler guages you're only measuring a tolerance not an actual size. So 0.2mm on an inlet means a 0.2mm guage will go in easily but a 0.25mm won't. So strictly speaking my recommendations mean 0.2 - 0.25mm on inlets and 0.3 - 0.35mm on exhausts. I wouldn't fret too much if you have to go 1 size over on these but don't go smaller. However if I have all the sizes you need you might as well get it spot on and then they stay in tolerance for tens of thousands of miles. It's rare to find wear in this system unless the tappets are wearing out and you'll see this if there's any dish on the tops. If so then the cam is fried too but I doubt you'll find that to be the case on a diesel. The early 1.6 petrol engines wore cams and lifters out like crazy but the 1.9's and later 1.6's used better quality materials and had no problem.

[Penelope Stopit]

Mignon said:

Usually once you've juggled the shims around to new positions you only need to buy 3 or 4 new sizes to shim all 8 valves properly. If you do your measurements and work out which sizes you need I'll check if I have them all and then you can send me a stamped addressed envelope with the old shims you don't need and a small beer donation and I'll swap them for the correct sizes and post it back.

As to clearances, remember that when you measure with feeler guages you're only measuring a tolerance not an actual size. So 0.2mm on an inlet means a 0.2mm guage will go in easily but a 0.25mm won't. So strictly speaking my recommendations mean 0.2 - 0.25mm on inlets and 0.3 - 0.35mm on exhausts. I wouldn't fret too much if you have to go 1 size over on these but don't go smaller. However if I have all the sizes you need you might as well get it spot on and then they stay in tolerance for tens of thousands of miles. It's rare to find wear in this system unless the tappets are wearing out and you'll see this if there's any dish on the tops. If so then the cam is fried too but I doubt you'll find that to be the case on a diesel. The early 1.6 petrol engines wore cams and lifters out like crazy but the 1.9's and later 1.6's used better quality materials and had no problem.

Thanks once again for all the information, I will contact you if I don't get things sorted here
" Buckets...I must remember to check the tops for wear"
I reckon I'll be very lucky if I'm able to re-use some shims
Much appreciated

[RizzoTheRat]

Penelope Stopit said:

I reckon I'll be very lucky if I'm able to re-use some shims

Both times I've done it, I was able to swap shims around and only need to buy a couple for a 10 valve engine.

[melhookv12]

Camshaft wear ? Might be why there are differences.

[Penelope Stopit]

There are no shims to be had here, people are grinding the valve stems to get the clearances, I was shocked when witnessing the grinding method
I am now waiting for the delivery of a Micrometer, there are no sizes marked on the shims fitted

[Sardonicus]

Penelope Stopit said:

There are no shims to be had here, people are grinding the valve stems to get the clearances, I was shocked when witnessing the grinding method
I am now waiting for the delivery of a Micrometer, there are no sizes marked on the shims fitted

Just see this post, XUD engines in my past experience never open/loosen valve clearances in use mileage etc a trait or robustness of bucket and shim system if you like the preferred valve gear on high revving motorcyle engines for good reason however they do close up with big mileages causing cold non-start issues (cured a few of those) shimming in situ is easy, my point is let me know what sizes you want and I will mike-em up and i'll send them to you not seen daylight for years at my workshop bless em got st loads of new old stock Triumph Stag ones too some one gave me many many moons ago

Edited by Sardonicus on Friday 25th May 09:15

[Mignon]

Shim sizes are etched on the surface of new shims but the cam lobe wears this off in short order. Grinding the tip of the valve stem is perfectly acceptable to increase clearances. Valve refacing machines usually come with a jig to enable this. I used to do it on my milling machine with a grinding wheel attachment which enabled me to work to within a thou. Obviously you can't do this job without a mike or digital Very Near caliper to measure the shims but that's kind of a Doh!

[Sardonicus]

Mignon said:

Shim sizes are etched on the surface of new shims but the cam lobe wears this off in short order. Grinding the tip of the valve stem is perfectly acceptable to increase clearances. Valve refacing machines usually come with a jig to enable this. I used to do it on my milling machine with a grinding wheel attachment which enabled me to work to within a thou. Obviously you can't do this job without a mike or digital Very Near caliper to measure the shims but that's kind of a Doh!

XUD are under bucket shims but the figures wear off just the same, not a problem as your aware Mignon with a Mic to hand I have won this lot over many years most of these are on the thicker/standard side, I was also doing lot of broken cambelts on these when some if not all the 3 camshaft hold down caps cracked was a local engineers near me in London that supplied 3 pattern caps and line bored the housings to size back in the day saved writing off the cylinder head anyway

[Mignon]

Sardonicus said:

XUD are under bucket shims but the figures wear off just the same

Well the cam lobe smacks the follower onto the shim and the follower wears the etching off. Also the valve rotates so the shim does too and this further wears the markings off against the valve tip or follower.

[Sardonicus]

Mignon said:

Sardonicus said:

XUD are under bucket shims but the figures wear off just the same

Well the cam lobe smacks the follower onto the shim and the follower wears the etching off. Also the valve rotates so the shim does too and this further wears the markings off against the valve tip or follower.

proved in my pic above

[Mignon]

Well the side of the shim that was on the valve tip has the shiny circle and the side against the follower which has a larger contact pad is less marked.

[Sardonicus]

Mignon said:

Well the side of the shim that was on the valve tip has the shiny circle and the side against the follower which has a larger contact pad is less marked.

I doubt any of those shims above have seen less than 100k Mignon, the strange think is that VC's on the XUD use to close up after around 100k miles + yet I run a Turbo XUD car from 115k to 270k and VC's checked around 250k with not needing any attention but its life consisted of siting at 2.5k revs average day in day out on my 100 mile a day commute

[Mignon]

The XU and XUD are very resistant to valve clearance changes. The valve and seat in the head are made from good enough materials that they do not erode or wear and although I have usually noted a small depression in the valve tip side of the shims this is only a fraction of a thou. Not enough to measure with feeler gauges in the valve clearance.

[Penelope Stopit]

Sardonicus said:

Penelope Stopit said:

There are no shims to be had here, people are grinding the valve stems to get the clearances, I was shocked when witnessing the grinding method
I am now waiting for the delivery of a Micrometer, there are no sizes marked on the shims fitted

Just see this post, XUD engines in my past experience never open/loosen valve clearances in use mileage etc a trait or robustness of bucket and shim system if you like the preferred valve gear on high revving motorcyle engines for good reason however they do close up with big mileages causing cold non-start issues (cured a few of those) shimming in situ is easy, my point is let me know what sizes you want and I will mike-em up and i'll send them to you not seen daylight for years at my workshop bless em got st loads of new old stock Triumph Stag ones too some one gave me many many moons ago

Edited by Sardonicus on Friday 25th May 09:15

Thank you very much for your offer, Mignon has also very kindly offered me shims, I am now spoilt for choice
I ordered a Micrometer today and will have it within 5 days, once I know what I need I will post back here or email you if that is ok

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Wednesday 2nd June 14:27