engine bore sonic testing
Discussion
Are you looking to measure the notes so you can open up the notes to a maximum amount and fit bigger pistons or do you just need to tidy up the notes and deal with any scores etc?
Opening out would be risky unless you have a lot of information including the material UTS and a very detailed map of the engine block including all the oils and water cavities. Best way of doing this would be CT scanning which is very expensive. If you just want to tidy up the bore then get them honed out and reline if necessary.
We need more information about what you want to do. Gut feel UT is not the way you need to go.
Opening out would be risky unless you have a lot of information including the material UTS and a very detailed map of the engine block including all the oils and water cavities. Best way of doing this would be CT scanning which is very expensive. If you just want to tidy up the bore then get them honed out and reline if necessary.
We need more information about what you want to do. Gut feel UT is not the way you need to go.
jason61c said:
227bhp said:
This is going to be one of those threads where we get drip fed vital information bit by bit and we have to guess what it's all about. A bit like playing hangman.
Not quite right is it, I asked a direct question and got some sensible answers.Aside from getting better answers, you never know, someone might chime in and say "I've done that, here's what I did".
227bhp said:
Yes it is. Unless it's top secret (which is fair enough), post up all the info to begin with; engine type, what you're attempting to do and why etc, it's all relevant.
Aside from getting better answers, you never know, someone might chime in and say "I've done that, here's what I did".
Its a nissan L series blockAside from getting better answers, you never know, someone might chime in and say "I've done that, here's what I did".
P30 casting(1969/70 made)
on a standard bore
6 cylinder
83mm bore stock.
I'd like to see if I take it out to +3mm if i've got a room for a +0.25mm in the future.
jason61c said:
Its a nissan L series block
P30 casting(1969/70 made)
on a standard bore
6 cylinder
83mm bore stock.
I'd like to see if I take it out to +3mm if i've got a room for a +0.25mm in the future.
So this is beyond normal overbore size? If so why and have you thought about what to do about a head gasket if it goes bigger than that?P30 casting(1969/70 made)
on a standard bore
6 cylinder
83mm bore stock.
I'd like to see if I take it out to +3mm if i've got a room for a +0.25mm in the future.
jason61c said:
227bhp said:
So this is beyond normal overbore size? If so why and have you thought about what to do about a head gasket if it goes bigger than that?
Slightly over, been done a fair few times. Head gaskets are fine to get.Like Mignon says it's pin holes you need to worry about and all you can do with those is pressure test afterwards.
I was MD of an NDT company many yeas ago, had an engine checked as a favour, I hate to think what it would have cost. They did Magnetic particle on the surface of the bore to start, then a 100% ultrasonic wall thickness check using std ultrasonic probes.
I don't see how you could use xray, you couldn't get the film around the cyl (it would need to be in the water jacket) with a source in the center of the bore.
100% UT is the way to go, One off UT like this would be very expensive, because of the time and very operator sensitive, but it would find any cracks, both propagating from the bore and from the water jacket side. Things like Magnetic and Dye Penetration inspection would only find cracks in the cyl wall that were 'open' to the piston bore not from the water side and wouldn't show wall thickness
I'm sure there are systems car manufactures use like some cleaver edy current inspection technique,as used to check wall thickness on industrial heat exchanges but that would be very clever gear.
The Russians have a thing called PUT (or something) can check wall thickness up to a few hundred meters away in pipe lines. seen it used once, but not available for 'home' use.
Before you take a pipe line into use you do a base line study for wall thickness and corrosion where you send an intelligent pig down the line with a Ultrasonic probe, and you can get wall thickness for 10's of KM at a time, so I'm sure you could get a UT probe that could pass down the bore, but as I say very specialized,
We built a system for jaguar to X ray pistons many years ago, but never did anything for blocks.in my day.
I don't see how you could use xray, you couldn't get the film around the cyl (it would need to be in the water jacket) with a source in the center of the bore.
100% UT is the way to go, One off UT like this would be very expensive, because of the time and very operator sensitive, but it would find any cracks, both propagating from the bore and from the water jacket side. Things like Magnetic and Dye Penetration inspection would only find cracks in the cyl wall that were 'open' to the piston bore not from the water side and wouldn't show wall thickness
I'm sure there are systems car manufactures use like some cleaver edy current inspection technique,as used to check wall thickness on industrial heat exchanges but that would be very clever gear.
The Russians have a thing called PUT (or something) can check wall thickness up to a few hundred meters away in pipe lines. seen it used once, but not available for 'home' use.
Before you take a pipe line into use you do a base line study for wall thickness and corrosion where you send an intelligent pig down the line with a Ultrasonic probe, and you can get wall thickness for 10's of KM at a time, so I'm sure you could get a UT probe that could pass down the bore, but as I say very specialized,
We built a system for jaguar to X ray pistons many years ago, but never did anything for blocks.in my day.
My company uses CT scanning and digital x-ray for qualifying castings. We are looking for the size and positioning of passages etc created from ceramics for the investment casts. It is expensive and not really suitable for a production check. As a 1 off it would be suitable but not easy to get done. Most places with this type of kit have it for a reason and but for general use.
Totally agree with the dye penetration method for detecting surface amplifies or core porosity that is exposed by machining out. That is relatively cheap and easy to do. Mag particle may be of use depending on the block material and may help with surface and just sub surface anomies.
That all said, I am just an NDT2 on fluorescent penetrant and Nital Etch. Other methods I use but cannot qualify parts.
Totally agree with the dye penetration method for detecting surface amplifies or core porosity that is exposed by machining out. That is relatively cheap and easy to do. Mag particle may be of use depending on the block material and may help with surface and just sub surface anomies.
That all said, I am just an NDT2 on fluorescent penetrant and Nital Etch. Other methods I use but cannot qualify parts.
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