Big cams, OE manifold, way down on power.
Discussion
GreenV8S said:
Just out of curiosity, how do those runners tune when you have short and long in parallel? I'd have guessed that gave you the worst of both worlds, but presumably do somehow work. Is this a conventional arrangement?
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking there, but it's standard equipment and the cycle (as it were) is as I mentioned earlier, but at WOT. It'll use a different cycle dependent on conditions, how far the accelerator is pressed etc.We have played with it to optimise it for our set up as obviously we're far from standard now. When we looked at the first dyno plot (with IMRC as std) I penned in the runner changeover times and they corresponded with blips on the power curve.
It's certainly not common knowledge that it acts like it does as standard.
The whole operation is like some bloke playing a huge church organ, he's got all these knobs, pedals, keys etc and can use them on their own, in conjunction with each other, at half pace or whatever else he desires to get the end result.
If you swap the bloke for the ECU and the organ the engine as a whole you realise how complex it is and why we're playing with the OE Ecu and not aftermarket. The standard engine has VVT, EGR, swirl flaps, 8 runners, DBW, knock, two Lambdas and your more normal spark and fuel control, it's also measuring traction, braking etc, it uses them all together and to different degrees too.
This is nothing special compared to others and 15yrs out of date too.
It's loud so if we do a WOT run from 2k up to 8 it sounds like an organ too as it goes through it's modes the engine note changes.
I'm not new to engines, but not great with ECUs and only have a rough overview. It's interesting how we can make a mechanical or ECU change then take it out for a run and log, if the MAF shows more air passing then we know we're making more power before we go back to the dyno.
Because it's DBW we can implement flat foot shift, downshift blip, launch control and if the car is cruise control equipped then the buttons double up as 3 different map settings, that's why I wanted to retain it.
227bhp said:
stevesingo said:
276deg@ 0.1deg is not REALLY hairy though is it.
You still haven't answered what you are using for load on the ECU.
With 12mm of lift it is and the exhaust cam is a heck of a lot more too.You still haven't answered what you are using for load on the ECU.
It uses Maf for load so I think you're barking up the wrong tree there i'm afraid.
stevesingo said:
227bhp said:
stevesingo said:
276deg@ 0.1deg is not REALLY hairy though is it.
You still haven't answered what you are using for load on the ECU.
With 12mm of lift it is and the exhaust cam is a heck of a lot more too.You still haven't answered what you are using for load on the ECU.
It uses Maf for load so I think you're barking up the wrong tree there i'm afraid.
dhutch said:
Do we know what engine this is yet?
It's completely irrelevant to the issues which should be being discussed. An engine is an engine, they all follow the same laws of physics and they're actually all pretty much the same inside from the same period in time (just before DI was introduced).Manufacturers cannot afford to leave anything on the table these days.
227bhp said:
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking there,
What I mean is, engine cam/intake design takes into account the inertia of the column of air within the intake runner so that the harmonic resonances work in your favour in the rev bands where you want peak torque. It seems to me that having two runners of different lengths connected at both ends is going to affect the resonance characteristics and maybe stop it resonating at all. I'm asking whether it is a conventional engine design to use the runners like this.227bhp said:
It's completely irrelevant to the issues which should be being discussed. An engine is an engine, they all follow the same laws of physics and they're actually all pretty much the same inside from the same period in time (just before DI was introduced).
Very aware that the laws of physics apply regardless of the branding, did a whole double module on ic engine design about ten years ago, however it's also not totally irrelevant in terms of the bigger picture and desire for designing the system from scratch when typically there are proven routes to improving the power of most engine installations. dhutch said:
Do we know what engine this is yet?
its a 2.3 duratec, again dont know why he doesnt just say it, if people know what it is they can look at pictures of the factory inlet to get an idea what hes working with.Also confirmed i have switched from a set of ITBS with 280/276 cams to a large plenum with single 70mm throttle and the idle has gone from 1000rpm reasonable steady to 1150-1300rpm bounce, running alpha N.
You know trying to spend money on going faster on the stock plenum isnt of any benefit unless your in a race class that doesnt allow it, so there is no point again going back to the dyno with a milder exhaust cam unless you want to see what everyone else has already told you.
Stick a set of ITBs on it, get an ecu thats happy running alpha n.....then if you decide you want to learn about changing cam duration you can have it on an engine that will properly respond the a single change rather than being hampered by other factors which will mask it.
If you want an example of an NA engine, 1900cc, 82mm bore, 89.3mm stroke, 290/276 advertised cams, head flow at peak lift 240/170cfm, so pretty poor(28") 250bhp/170ftlbs, revs to 9000rpm
Boosted LS1 said:
Evoluzione said:
Starting to get some members. I'm there but shall listen to the experts, lol!
People asking stupid questions get stupid answers, then make a complaint and then clever man is barred. That's nut's to me.
Time for a people's revolt. This is a tiny backwater of seriously clued up people that are getting shut down for no apparent reason.
I don't care what DCW said in the past to upset people, he was probably right, the NPE threads are full of people claiming other's are return banned people, nothing gets done.
It's a disgrace.
All forums have atleast one spin off group, and most if not all users will never know both sides of the story or the full picture, equally moderators are only human and do make mistakes. Most are volunteers doing so in their own time.
Daniel
Owner of a medium size forum.
User of forums for more than half his life.
Daniel
Owner of a medium size forum.
User of forums for more than half his life.
dhutch said:
All forums have atleast one spin off group, and most if not all users will never know both sides of the story or the full picture, equally moderators are only human and do make mistakes. Most are volunteers doing so in their own time.
Daniel
Owner of a medium size forum.
User of forums for more than half his life.
Making that mistake repeatedly....just makes yourself look stupid though. There are many people who need banned from a technical forum, and most would be for asking utterly stupid questions, and even more those who get correct answers, but refuse to listen and accept those answers.Daniel
Owner of a medium size forum.
User of forums for more than half his life.
Which has been the case multiple times here, yet instead they chose to ban the person telling the truth. Dave has a wealth of technical knowledge...probably more than every single admin here will ever have combined.
Their actions are truly their loss and to the detriment of the forum and making fools of themselves.
stevieturbo said:
Their actions are truly their loss and to the detriment of the forum and making fools of themselves.
And our loss, and the people that search for topics he posted about too. It was only when I finally figured out what was going on that I went looking for previous incarnations.There was certainly some acerbic wit going on there but most times it was nothing more than 'a fella calling out a shovel for being a stupid spade'.
What is happening to the world where people can't take this stuff on the chin?
The knowledge & experience that DCW was sharing here is priceless, you'll not find any of that in some snowflake university lecture.
I pity the future of this world where people aren't even allowed to take dressing down let alone deal with one.
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