How do you bend a rod?
Discussion
Elliot2000 said:
Well that confirms you have no experience of what a main dealer workshop is actually like.
Most workshops mechanics don’t earn great basic salary- it’s made up for in bonuses by selling more hours - I.e a service has a book time of day an hour but the tech finishes it in half hour - that extra half hour will add to his bonus. These bonuses can make up a third of total pay and turn a piss poor salary into an ok one- this means you have a workshop full of mechanics working flat out pretty much all the time and also why u get certain techs trying to avoid certain jobs because it will be a time loser.
Whilst ur sitting out front drinking your free coffee - the tech will have knocked out your job in less than the poor allotted time. You will then continue to sit there and wait for your free wash and waiting for the service advisor to get some free time to try and invoice and up sell you something - the only people that don’t rush about in dealers is the salesman
I've been in and around the trade for 30 years....and the most ridiculous thing I heard about a main dealer from one who worked in a dealers, was they would get a "no comeback" bonus each month.Most workshops mechanics don’t earn great basic salary- it’s made up for in bonuses by selling more hours - I.e a service has a book time of day an hour but the tech finishes it in half hour - that extra half hour will add to his bonus. These bonuses can make up a third of total pay and turn a piss poor salary into an ok one- this means you have a workshop full of mechanics working flat out pretty much all the time and also why u get certain techs trying to avoid certain jobs because it will be a time loser.
Whilst ur sitting out front drinking your free coffee - the tech will have knocked out your job in less than the poor allotted time. You will then continue to sit there and wait for your free wash and waiting for the service advisor to get some free time to try and invoice and up sell you something - the only people that don’t rush about in dealers is the salesman
I was like...WTF ? they get a bonus if there are no customer complaints or comebacks on any work done. Really ??
It should be a case of they get f
king sacked if they don't to their job and there are complaints, not a bonus because a customer doesn't notice or complain !And usually the way "they knock out the job in less than the allocated time"...is because they probably don't do half of it.
Have you ever serviced or inspected any cars just out of warranty, that have left the main dealer network...but have full service histories ? Some of them are utterly shocking, and trading standards really need to step up and carry out more inspections to catch these garages charging for work they have not done.
stevieturbo said:
I've been in and around the trade for 30 years....and the most ridiculous thing I heard about a main dealer from one who worked in a dealers, was they would get a "no comeback" bonus each month.
I was like...WTF ? they get a bonus if there are no customer complaints or comebacks on any work done. Really ??
It should be a case of they get fking sacked if they don't to their job and there are complaints, not a bonus because a customer doesn't notice or complain !
And usually the way "they knock out the job in less than the allocated time"...is because they probably don't do half of it.
Have you ever serviced or inspected any cars just out of warranty, that have left the main dealer network...but have full service histories ? Some of them are utterly shocking, and trading standards really need to step up and carry out more inspections to catch these garages charging for work they have not done.
Again, plenty of bad/dishonest mechanics out there - I don’t think the amount in main dealer networks is much different to those in independent or other garages. I have seen plenty of terrible cars that have been bodged dangerously that had previously been into other garages - coming to main dealer as a last resort.I was like...WTF ? they get a bonus if there are no customer complaints or comebacks on any work done. Really ??
It should be a case of they get f
king sacked if they don't to their job and there are complaints, not a bonus because a customer doesn't notice or complain !And usually the way "they knock out the job in less than the allocated time"...is because they probably don't do half of it.
Have you ever serviced or inspected any cars just out of warranty, that have left the main dealer network...but have full service histories ? Some of them are utterly shocking, and trading standards really need to step up and carry out more inspections to catch these garages charging for work they have not done.
I do agree full service history is nothing to go by these days - back in 2006 they had some cars with 28000 mile interval for oil services- and even then an oil service was oil change and pollen filter - nothing else - we were given 15 minutes for them services And that was it - so that’s what they got - I agree it was s
t and not like when I first started there and a major service on a normal model could be 3/4 of the days work. At least they got decent quality oil and the correct grade for their 15 minute services - which I can categorically say was often not the case in cars going outside the main dealers
Don’t lump all main dealer techs into a bad bunch, just like I know not all non main dealer techs are bad.
Tbf the whole trade has got a terrible reputation and knowing how mechanics like slagging off other garages - it’s no wonder
Elliot2000 said:
Tbf the whole trade has got a terrible reputation and knowing how mechanics like slagging off other garages - it’s no wonder
The ruined reputation is for giving customers st service, and not doing the work they claim and are charging for. And a general level of incompetence that is just unacceptable.It most certainly isnt from slagging other garages. If you do good and honest work and are competent....there would be nothing to slag about.
That said, proper mechanics....which is a difficult term to use given the vast range of "skills" it can entail, do get a raw deal, where else would each individual mechanic need to spend so much on tools and equipment, for such little return ?
I cant think of any other trade that requires such huge spend for such little return.
And the above doesn't apply to parts changers who just throw parts at things and hope it fixes, or just pretend to service cars etc. They get paid too much
stevieturbo said:
The ruined reputation is for giving customers st service, and not doing the work they claim and are charging for. And a general level of incompetence that is just unacceptable.
It most certainly isnt from slagging other garages. If you do good and honest work and are competent....there would be nothing to slag about.
That said, proper mechanics....which is a difficult term to use given the vast range of "skills" it can entail, do get a raw deal, where else would each individual mechanic need to spend so much on tools and equipment, for such little return ?
I cant think of any other trade that requires such huge spend for such little return.
And the above doesn't apply to parts changers who just throw parts at things and hope it fixes, or just pretend to service cars etc. They get paid too much
I assume you call yourself a “proper” mechanic?t service, and not doing the work they claim and are charging for. And a general level of incompetence that is just unacceptable.It most certainly isnt from slagging other garages. If you do good and honest work and are competent....there would be nothing to slag about.
That said, proper mechanics....which is a difficult term to use given the vast range of "skills" it can entail, do get a raw deal, where else would each individual mechanic need to spend so much on tools and equipment, for such little return ?
I cant think of any other trade that requires such huge spend for such little return.
And the above doesn't apply to parts changers who just throw parts at things and hope it fixes, or just pretend to service cars etc. They get paid too much
Every other post you’re slagging off other garages!! They just happen to not be your own. You carry out sweeping generalisations on main dealer garages - how many times have you spoke to people or customers about how terrible main dealer mechanics are?
Elliot2000 said:
I assume you call yourself a “proper” mechanic?
Every other post you’re slagging off other garages!! They just happen to not be your own. You carry out sweeping generalisations on main dealer garages - how many times have you spoke to people or customers about how terrible main dealer mechanics are?
Cars are purely a hobby for me. But with 30 years at it, and building and tuning race cars/engines etc.....I tend to have a much better grasp on most aspects than even those alleging to be fully trained or whatever.Every other post you’re slagging off other garages!! They just happen to not be your own. You carry out sweeping generalisations on main dealer garages - how many times have you spoke to people or customers about how terrible main dealer mechanics are?
And as many friends are in the trade, and I often work alongside them with some stuff....yes I do see the utterly shoddy work from quite a few garages and main dealers ( although that's usually relating to work not done )
If you are genuinely in the motor trade yourself as you seem to claim, I'm shocked you havent seen all these things. Maybe those rose tinted glasses you have are almost impossible to see through.
And the vast number of threads here alone where people get ripped off or duped...maybe you've seen none of those either ?
If the garages weren't f
king incompetent....they wouldn't get slagged. It really isn't hard for any sensible person to understand ?stevieturbo said:
Cars are purely a hobby for me. But with 30 years at it, and building and tuning race cars/engines etc.....I tend to have a much better grasp on most aspects than even those alleging to be fully trained or whatever.
And as many friends are in the trade, and I often work alongside them with some stuff....yes I do see the utterly shoddy work from quite a few garages and main dealers ( although that's usually relating to work not done )
If you are genuinely in the motor trade yourself as you seem to claim, I'm shocked you havent seen all these things. Maybe those rose tinted glasses you have are almost impossible to see through.
And the vast number of threads here alone where people get ripped off or duped...maybe you've seen none of those either ?
If the garages weren't fking incompetent....they wouldn't get slagged. It really isn't hard for any sensible person to understand ?
As I have said many times already - yes there are plenty of bad mechanics out there in all types of garages and I don’t excuse their behaviour in the slightest.And as many friends are in the trade, and I often work alongside them with some stuff....yes I do see the utterly shoddy work from quite a few garages and main dealers ( although that's usually relating to work not done )
If you are genuinely in the motor trade yourself as you seem to claim, I'm shocked you havent seen all these things. Maybe those rose tinted glasses you have are almost impossible to see through.
And the vast number of threads here alone where people get ripped off or duped...maybe you've seen none of those either ?
If the garages weren't f
king incompetent....they wouldn't get slagged. It really isn't hard for any sensible person to understand ?There is also plenty of people/mechanics/customers happy to slag garages off without knowing the full story. Customers don’t like paying big repair bills - their car goes wrong - big repair bill - anything happens even slightly related to that issue for the next couple of years - it will be the fault of the garage in their eyes - “I had a clutch done last year and now my gearbox has failed - they must have f
ked it up” etc etc - heard it plenty of times.To slag off all main dealers because of some bad mechanics is stupid - I bet u consider your friends in the trade are good mechanics - I guarantee there is plenty of people that would disagree with you that’s dealt with then in the past - and it won’t necessarily be because they are bad mechanics.
The fact that your not even in the trade but happy to slag all and sundry off on what you hear from people speaks volumes.
I had a car come in from a so called former mechanic - had a failed power steering pump on a ten year old 90000 mile car - we Managed to get goodwill from the manufacturer For almost the whole cost and when he collected he kicked off - accused us of not putting a new pump on because it was whining - wouldn’t listen to the fact it was an electro hydraulic system and they all sounded like that - even when brand new. Had to say to him I could show him another car we had to prove it would be the same, he still didn’t trust us and said he would go around our car park and choose which car we could use to demonstrate the noise, he chose one- my manager went off to get the keys and then he was telling me how he used to be in the trade and how he never used to do oil changes or change parts and generally be a complete w
ker to customers and that’s why he don’t trust us - I explained that we weren’t like that (as we weren’t, apart from the dodgy one or two in the workshop that normally didn’t stay too long), finally got the key - proved the noise is normal on that model and off he went still moaning.Most mechanics have to deal with plenty of s
t from all directions, they work for crap pay, have to spend thousands buying their own equipment and do a decent job practically all of the time, sometimes they fk up - cars can be complicated and faults misleading - but who doesn’t fk up - especially when you have 2-3 jobs on the go and then get dumped on with waiting customers , slow parts guys, non technical service advisors and customers already coming in expecting to get shafted and up for blaming someone It’s a thankless job most of the time - people will more often slag something of on the internet when something goes wrong and rarely go chatting on the internet about all the times the had no problems or dramas with their repairs. A 1000 customers get work done somewhere - 2 ended up going wrong or breaking down. Guess which of them customers will be chatting about their experience over the internet or down the pub with there mates?
On top of that - most threads are more down to inherent problems with the cars design flaws - like failed timing chains, failed diffs, failed gearboxes- things which a mechanic would have no influence over - but they will still blame someone for it going wrong, and they will never blame themSelves for not getting it serviced or treating it with mechanics sympathy.
Edited by Elliot2000 on Tuesday 30th June 00:00
Elliot2000 said:
That is no way to diagnose a bent rod. Could be a whole manner of things and a bent rod wouldn’t be top of my list of suspected things - the only way to find out is to take it to a mechanic and let them have a look.
If a rod is bent it will shorten the stroke of that piston. If you can get to the spark plug holes you can compare the stroke of all the pistons, and if one's shorter than the others, you have a problem.NMNeil said:
Elliot2000 said:
That is no way to diagnose a bent rod. Could be a whole manner of things and a bent rod wouldn’t be top of my list of suspected things - the only way to find out is to take it to a mechanic and let them have a look.
If a rod is bent it will shorten the stroke of that piston. If you can get to the spark plug holes you can compare the stroke of all the pistons, and if one's shorter than the others, you have a problem.gazza285 said:
It might change the piston height At TDC, but it will not change the stroke.
It "may" change the piston height...depending where you are able to measure it...which with the head on, is very limited.A very small bend might be almost imperceptible to an inexperienced eye..but will still be very detrimental to the engine.
A huge bend should be obvious to even a blind person.
stevieturbo said:
It "may" change the piston height...depending where you are able to measure it...which with the head on, is very limited.
A very small bend might be almost imperceptible to an inexperienced eye..but will still be very detrimental to the engine.
A huge bend should be obvious to even a blind person.
I never said it was a good way to find a bent rod...A very small bend might be almost imperceptible to an inexperienced eye..but will still be very detrimental to the engine.
A huge bend should be obvious to even a blind person.
By no means an expert, but as you've had a remap and used it on track, feasibly the combination of high engine temperatures, high load and the longevity sacrifices made by the remap in the pursuit of performance has ultimately bitten you.
Manufacturers don't just deliberately leave power on the table, especially in performance cars (emissions aside of course).
Do you have any data logging from the ECU? Blindly assuming it is a bent rod, knock (either detonation or pre-ignition) could provide enough force to bend a rod and feasibly part of the remap might have been to reduce knock related safety measures or to push boost / timing to levels that made knock inevitable under a track day scenario.
From the other posts in the thread, something bearing related sounds more likely though. Good luck...
Manufacturers don't just deliberately leave power on the table, especially in performance cars (emissions aside of course).
Do you have any data logging from the ECU? Blindly assuming it is a bent rod, knock (either detonation or pre-ignition) could provide enough force to bend a rod and feasibly part of the remap might have been to reduce knock related safety measures or to push boost / timing to levels that made knock inevitable under a track day scenario.
From the other posts in the thread, something bearing related sounds more likely though. Good luck...
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