Timing belt/camshaft issue

[Vagabondrobb]

Hi guys,

First post on here, hoping someone might be able to enlighten me on a timing belt/cam problem...

Basically while my volvo v70 was awaiting parts (steering knuckle and tie rods etc) I decided to put a new timing belt on, seeing as the kit was lying around and I didn't know when/if it had been done (we're at the 120,000 mark).

Anyway, due to monumental stupidity, while attempting to remove the crankshaft bolt (without the correct tool, and after failing to keep it locked by brake/gear), I shoved a bolt into the camshaft pulley (right through) to lock it that way... After a big push on the breaker bar, the crank jumped forward with a clanging noise. With the bolt still not cracked I realized I'd done something stupid.

Put it all back together and now engine just turns and won't fire. No catastrophic noises, but obviously I've done something not good.

Possibly jumped timing? Or sheared camshaft dowel?

I'm worried I've buggered the rods etc.

Is there a way to tell without taking the rocker case etc off (Volvo haven't made that easy).

Mechanic told me if I could peer down the oil fill with a torch while someone turned the engine over, I could see if camshaft turns, butt of course Volvo have put the oil filler on the side!

Anyone a lot smarter than me have any ideas/advice? (Other than buying a new engine!)


Cheers!

Robb

[stevieturbo]

I don't understand how you could "put it back together" without actually realising something was wrong long before you actually finished the job ?

Was anything/everything actually aligned correctly with all marks ? Surely when rotating the crank by hand ( bar obviously ) after belt fit....you would feel or see a problem long before you ever even thought about making an attempt with the starter ?

It has to be said, if it's a D5 like mine was, it really is an extremely easy vehicle to do a belt on.

[bearman68]

OP have you put the timing back to the marks? As StevieT says it's not the most difficult cambelt to change, but it clearly won't work when the timing is out.
Do you have compression on all 5 when you turn the engine by hand?

If you only have compression on a number of cylinders less than 5, then bad things have happened.

If it's any consolation, we've all done stupid things, and buggered the engine while doing a cam belt. A colleague mistimed a V12 and bent everything.

[Polly Grigora]

Taking it that you put it back together without replacing the belt because you couldn't get the crank pulley off

Full breaker bar load was applied to the cam belt and onwards to the camshaft pulley

Either the teeth of the belt will have been dragged over one of the pulleys, belt teeth been stripped, belt snapped or the pulley broken

[stevieturbo]

Ahh right...he caused harm and did not actually change the belt ?

More clarity needed.

I guess one positive is that unlikely the rods are harmed.

Perhaps not so positive is that it's possible the cylinder head/valves are destroyed.

[Vagabondrobb]

stevieturbo said:

I don't understand how you could "put it back together" without actually realising something was wrong long before you actually finished the job ?

Was anything/everything actually aligned correctly with all marks ? Surely when rotating the crank by hand ( bar obviously ) after belt fit....you would feel or see a problem long before you ever even thought about making an attempt with the starter ?

It has to be said, if it's a D5 like mine was, it really is an extremely easy vehicle to do a belt on.

Sorry my bad. Crankshaft pulley had to come off in order to remove belt… so that’s as far as I got. It’s a 2.0d, not sure how similar they are?

[Vagabondrobb]

bearman68 said:

OP have you put the timing back to the marks? As StevieT says it's not the most difficult cambelt to change, but it clearly won't work when the timing is out.
Do you have compression on all 5 when you turn the engine by hand?

If you only have compression on a number of cylinders less than 5, then bad things have happened.

If it's any consolation, we've all done stupid things, and buggered the engine while doing a cam belt. A colleague mistimed a V12 and bent everything.

Thankyou, I do feel pretty stupid!

[Vagabondrobb]

Polly Grigora said:

Taking it that you put it back together without replacing the belt because you couldn't get the crank pulley off

Full breaker bar load was applied to the cam belt and onwards to the camshaft pulley

Either the teeth of the belt will have been dragged over one of the pulleys, belt teeth been stripped, belt snapped or the pulley broken

Exactly yes! Although I’m pretty sure the belt didn't get stripped (and definitely didn’t snap), and the pulley seemed fine. Thought maybe a camshaft dowel got sheared, but don’t know much about how that would work, and not sure if the engine has gears for timing etc. I also read that there is a chain linking the intake cam (which is driven by timing belt) and the outake cam… possibly that slipped?!

I think I will have to get the rocker case off today. Looks a bit more complicated than on an old Land Rover…

[stevieturbo]

you can be sure the chain is not the problem.

First things first, get it apart and check if anything is aligned correctly with any timing marks.

Can't comment on the 2.0, only worked on the 5cyls

Although as with most things these days...Youtube has someone showing how to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKyvvinTdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGs_QuNSB2c

[Vagabondrobb]

stevieturbo said:

you can be sure the chain is not the problem.

First things first, get it apart and check if anything is aligned correctly with any timing marks.

Can't comment on the 2.0, only worked on the 5cyls

Although as with most things these days...Youtube has someone showing how to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKyvvinTdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGs_QuNSB2c

I’ve just aligned the camshaft pulley and with the timing pin inserted, the flywheel is about 12 degrees off where it should be (the timing holes in both the flywheel housing and the wheel itself do not align).

So I’ve knocked the timing off. I’m imagining while moving crankshaft with timing pin in camshaft pulley I’ve broke the camshaft dowel that keeps it all aligned?!

Can anyone tell me how easy it is to take rocker cover off? Don’t have time now to try, but it looks fidgety.

Edited by Vagabondrobb on Saturday 23 April 16:46

[stevieturbo]

why are you obsessing about a dowel ?

The most likely think is the belt has jumped a tooth.

And you do not need to faff about wasting time at the rocker cover.

As has already been said, it will be easy to feel when turning the engine over by hand if everything feels right, and there is still compression on all 4 cylinders.

AFTER correcting the timing with either a new or old belt fitted. Do not turn the engine over on the starter at all.

If it is only one tooth, you may well be lucky and no harm is done.

[Vagabondrobb]

I'm fairly confident the belt did not jump any teeth, and I heard a horrible clunk, hence the dowel theory. It's a theory i am certainly not wedded to.

So you're saying correct timing and THEN check for compression by hand turning?

Robb

[bearman68]

Vagabondrobb said:

I'm fairly confident the belt did not jump any teeth, and I heard a horrible clunk, hence the dowel theory. It's a theory i am certainly not wedded to.

So you're saying correct timing and THEN check for compression by hand turning?

Robb

YES YES YES, as per my previous post. This is exactly the right thing to do. (IMO).

[Vagabondrobb]

Haha ok. Thanks to all for the advice, I will report back!

Robb

[bearman68]

Vagabondrobb said:

Haha ok. Thanks to all for the advice, I will report back!

Robb

12 degrees out will certainly prevent the engine from starting, and sounds to be about 1 tooth to me. I think you might get away with this if you're lucky.

[stevieturbo]

Vagabondrobb said:

I'm fairly confident the belt did not jump any teeth

Robb

You say the timing marks no longer line up....the very first line of thought would be the belt has jumped.

[bearman68]

Vagabondrobb said:

Haha ok. Thanks to all for the advice, I will report back!

Robb

12 degrees out will certainly prevent the engine from starting, and sounds to be about 1 tooth to me. I think you might get away with this if you're lucky.

[Evoluzione]

This thread needs one reply only: Read a workshop manual or other reliable guide on how to do it properly and do it.
It's what you should have done in the first place and it's still what you should be doing now. Not anything else.

[Vagabondrobb]

Fairly sure that's what these forums are for. Workshop manual (which I have) is one thing, but no substitute for asking knowledgeable people for advice. I messed up, it was cold and pissing with rain - I was rushing a job I shouldn't have rushed. Life goes on.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Fingers crossed you haven't done any major damage, but if you're unsure of anything make sure you get some assistance or ask for more advice.