Fuel lines and fittings

[Skyedriver]

stevieturbo said:

As for whatever this "intake module" you refer to, post a picture of it.

A new manifold with the runners into a common single plenum would be neater and then a single air filter. Or perhaps yes, short runners and 3 filters.

And what electronics are you referring to ? be specific as I cannot see from here.

Under this:


Are these


Close up of part number.


Was going to drain the fuel from the tank with a suction oil remover but wary in case the petrol destroys a seal

[stevieturbo]

looks like an idle speed control valve someone has blanked off.
So it is not in use.

[Boosted LS1]

Mikey G said:

The key is make sure when you cut a pipe that it is a clean cut through the braid. I normally cover it in masking tape and use a thin cutting disc on and angle grinder to slice it.

Clamping it with a jubilee clip and then using the ngle grinder is even better :-)

[Boosted LS1]

In days past when my rv8 flooded plugs due to starting issues I'd bake them dry on the gas cooker and try them again. Those would have been plain old NGk's, not iridiums.

[stevieturbo]

And forgot the other one at the right, it just looks like an air temperature sensor.

[stevieturbo]

Boosted LS1 said:

In days past when my rv8 flooded plugs due to starting issues I'd bake them dry on the gas cooker and try them again. Those would have been plain old NGk's, not iridiums.

In a case where your engine will not start, you know it's already flooded plugs....this is just futile.

Sometimes drying them will fix them, but often it will not. And refitting plugs you are not 100% sure will be good, into an engine you're having trouble starting, is literally just pissing into the wind. Because if it still does not start, it might simply be because the plugs are stuffed.

Now once starting and running is all sweet, you could maybe go back and try some of those old flooded/dried plugs. But IMO NEVER use them on an engine that you're struggling to start.

Fix the flooding, fit new plugs. Then start it. If this takes a few sets of cheap plugs, so be it.

[Skyedriver]

stevieturbo said:

looks like an idle speed control valve someone has blanked off.
So it is not in use.





In a case where your engine will not start, you know it's already flooded plugs....this is just futile.

Sometimes drying them will fix them, but often it will not. And refitting plugs you are not 100% sure will be good, into an engine you're having trouble starting, is literally just pissing into the wind. Because if it still does not start, it might simply be because the plugs are stuffed.

Now once starting and running is all sweet, you could maybe go back and try some of those old flooded/dried plugs. But IMO NEVER use them on an engine that you're struggling to start.

Fix the flooding, fit new plugs. Then start it. If this takes a few sets of cheap plugs, so be it.

Idle speed control - blanked at one end but electrical conn at the other - how would one of these work? The air temp has a connection also but did thinkit surplus to essential requirement.

Ordered up fresh plugs (BP6ES) are normal plugs no longer changed? Little tale - Halfords sell the one for a number of older Fords as a Lawnmower plug!
And I called the local motor spares shop this morning - do you stock NGK BP6ES - "yes I 'have 4 in stock" (I need 6) OK I could probably get away with BP7 - "We've got three of them"

Attempted to syphon out the old fuel but a mouthful of stale petrol later I had recovered half a gallon. The original fuel tank had a drain plug but by all accounts it'll be stuck. If it's still in existence.

[stevieturbo]

Skyedriver said:

Idle speed control - blanked at one end but electrical conn at the other - how would one of these work? The air temp has a connection also but did thinkit surplus to essential requirement.

Ordered up fresh plugs (BP6ES) are normal plugs no longer changed? Little tale - Halfords sell the one for a number of older Fords as a Lawnmower plug!
And I called the local motor spares shop this morning - do you stock NGK BP6ES - "yes I 'have 4 in stock" (I need 6) OK I could probably get away with BP7 - "We've got three of them"

Attempted to syphon out the old fuel but a mouthful of stale petrol later I had recovered half a gallon. The original fuel tank had a drain plug but by all accounts it'll be stuck. If it's still in existence.

With it blanked off....it would not work.

It's just an air bypass to allow air into the intake, passing the throttles.

Many will say air temp is essential, but in reality it is not. But it is better to have it.

Everything should be explained in the Haynes book.

[Skyedriver]

stevieturbo said:

Skyedriver said:

Idle speed control - blanked at one end but electrical conn at the other - how would one of these work? The air temp has a connection also but did thinkit surplus to essential requirement.

Ordered up fresh plugs (BP6ES) are normal plugs no longer changed? Little tale - Halfords sell the one for a number of older Fords as a Lawnmower plug!
And I called the local motor spares shop this morning - do you stock NGK BP6ES - "yes I 'have 4 in stock" (I need 6) OK I could probably get away with BP7 - "We've got three of them"

Attempted to syphon out the old fuel but a mouthful of stale petrol later I had recovered half a gallon. The original fuel tank had a drain plug but by all accounts it'll be stuck. If it's still in existence.

With it blanked off....it would not work.

It's just an air bypass to allow air into the intake, passing the throttles.

Many will say air temp is essential, but in reality it is not. But it is better to have it.

Everything should be explained in the Haynes book.

Thanks Stevie, i must try and read and more so understand it. Despite being written by Dave Walker, it doesn't seem to reference Emerald stuff but instead is very generic. But that might be because I'm thick!
You've got me thinking (can't touch the car now untl Monday) is it flooding as there's too low an air flow despite the now open intakes?

[stevieturbo]

The book makes lots of references to his Emerald.

And the book is very very basic. Partly why I disliked it, no real good content. And although it is largely aimed at his Emerald system, of course a lot of info needs to be generic too.

Engines are engines.

[stevieturbo]

Skyedriver said:

You've got me thinking (can't touch the car now untl Monday) is it flooding as there's too low an air flow despite the now open intakes?

For most part the throttles dictate how much air is getting in. Not those monstrosities above them. ( and assuming the idle air bypass valve isn't actually doing anything. )

But flooding, too rich, however you want to call it. Yes it is too much fuel relative to the air ingested. Of which both are variables.

[Skyedriver]

New plugs arrived early - thank you Burton
Engine Management book read while I was away Friday & Saturday
Some fresh 99octane (E5) added to the fuel - thank you Esso & Halfway House garage
And some very helpful info and advice from Stevie - thanks, invaluable.

Fires, runs, sweet as a nut, mega oil pressure too.

Few things a bit odd including the 6 cylinder coil pack is connected to the wrong leads should be 1&5, 3&4, 2&6 according to Emerald diagram but it's actually 1&5, 2&6, 3&4.But we'll not split hairs!
Next job is tidy up the fuel lines, try and work out an air filter system when there's not a lot of room*, do I need the intake air temp and auxiliary air sensor, the book says beneficial but not essential I think (need to re-read) then it's on to the interior.

• need to measure the available height and decide whether K&Ns fit or I try a foam one from Jenvey or similar or make a plenum chamber affair.

[Skyedriver]

[quote=Skyedriver

need to measure the available height and decide whether K&Ns fit or I try a foam one from Jenvey or similar or make a plenum chamber affair.
[/quote]


Well folks, some in depth measuring and I'm a bit screwed. I can now see why he's done it the way he did. The top of the rear throttle body is approx 25 to 30mm below the lip of the bonnet opening/bulkhead. By using a 90 degree bend angled forward he's cleared it. So it would seem I either need a filter/plenum chamber no deeper than 25mm which is likely going to restrict air flow to the rear body or retain the existing pipework. Need another cunning plan.....

[TwinKam]

Skyedriver said:

need to measure the available height and decide whether K&Ns fit or I try a foam one from Jenvey or similar or make a plenum chamber affair.

Skyedriver said:

Well folks, some in depth measuring and I'm a bit screwed. I can now see why he's done it the way he did. The top of the rear throttle body is approx 25 to 30mm below the lip of the bonnet opening/bulkhead. By using a 90 degree bend angled forward he's cleared it. So it would seem I either need a filter/plenum chamber no deeper than 25mm which is likely going to restrict air flow to the rear body or retain the existing pipework. Need another cunning plan.....

Dry-sump it

[stevieturbo]

Those plates and bends atop the intake must be a good 3-4" total ?

I don't see how you can't sort something in that space.

Or even if retaining the current arrangement, just done with better piping, and nicer bends/collector type things.

The silver flexible hose used just looks so brutal, combined with the very ugly collector bit for the filter.

Even routing each 3 into a single air filter type thing would be nicer.

I assume it is running somewhat sensibly now ?

[Skyedriver]

Hi TwinKam & Stevie, thanks for suffering my problem. Running fine or was when I turned it around a few days ago. Not been on the road yet...

I've got possibly 4" clearance above the actual orifice of the rearmost TB but the flange/base plate is under the bulkhead lip, it really is that close.
assuming the filter (whichever type I use) extends beyond the orifice, it collides with the bulkhead. Pic to follow. It's why the rearmost 90 degree bend points forward.
I've been through the ITG/K&N/Pipercross etc catalogue and the best option I can see is 6 "socks" which I'm not keen on.
The other problem, and I assume everyone has the same problem, is the fuel "rail" is transverse across the TB and stands higher then the face of the TB so a basic backing plate for a plenum or communal air filter wont fit without relieving it for clearance.

Yes a better constructed collector, an aluminium cylinder with a sealed end would look so much better. I could open up three holes for the outlets and one for the inlet. Been scouting around for something but not seen anything suitable yet.

Just had an idea about a home made plenum in sheet ali over the top of the existing bends with a single pipe away to a remote filter......I'll be back....

Edited by Skyedriver on Wednesday 29th March 19:02

[stevieturbo]

exactly what engine is it ?

And are there other inlet manifolds available ?

I'm sure that one is modified, both to accept injectors and possibly individual throttles ?

A more conventional plenum intake and single throttle would tidy things up a lot I'm sure.

As for filters. A typical flat base with dome, as would be seen atop sets of carbs would work fine, running the 3 pipes into the base. I'm certainly not saying use this one, but this kind of idea. One each side.

http://coventryautocomponents.co.uk/store/c15277-c...

Or make your own base for a filter like this etc

https://www.design911.co.uk/p/kandn-custom-air-fil...

There are no lack of options

[Skyedriver]

It's a Ford Essex V6 3 litre, installed in a Gilbern Invader...

this is the clearance I have at the rear TB.



In this pic you can see how the transverse fuel rails sit higher than the top of the TB face making the use of a flat base plate impossible without either spacing it up over or cutting rebates for the fuel rails.


But I think I have a cunning plan to create a satisfactory plenum with ali sheet over the top of new stacks with the rearward ones leaning or bending forward enough to clear the bulkhead leaving space for the plenum. Or mould one using f/glass or carbon sheet if I'm feeling artistic.

Still need to sort those fuel lines too.....

[stevieturbo]

It seems this is the sort of thing you have ?

https://www.burtonpower.com/jenvey-throttle-body-a...

Would certainly have been a lot easier if they'd put the injectors along the sides like most installs would be.

If you wanted to make new rail mounts, I presume you have standard 75mm or thereabouts injectors ? There are plenty of sorter injectors about 34mm or so.
So you could then drop the rail about 40mm lower if that helped.

[Skyedriver]

stevieturbo said:

It seems this is the sort of thing you have ?

https://www.burtonpower.com/jenvey-throttle-body-a...

Would certainly have been a lot easier if they'd put the injectors along the sides like most installs would be.

If you wanted to make new rail mounts, I presume you have standard 75mm or thereabouts injectors ? There are plenty of sorter injectors about 34mm or so.
So you could then drop the rail about 40mm lower if that helped.

That's the set up but the twin ram pipes/velocity stacks weren't with the car when I bought it

Apologies for using you all as a sounding board but I have been internetting and measuring away. there's a 25mm spacer for the 42DCNF (available in the USA by the looks of it) which would lift the top deck of the TB level with the fuel rail and allow a flat base for a plenum/filter. However that takes everything 25mm closer to the underside of the bonnet and bulkhead where I'm stuck for height now.

Then wondered about using the existing 6 legged spider arrangement but connecting the cylinder closer to the inlets using short lengths of rubber rather than the long lengths of silver tube. The two cylinders would sit on top of the rocker covers rather than down the side of the engine. Those two cylinders, about 85mm dia look horrible covered in silver tape BUT strip that off and you have two aluminium casings with beautifully welded spiggots? (Wish I could weld aluminium or anything for that matter, as good). Apparently it used to get very hot under the bonnet hence the silver insulation on everything!
There's my answer I thought. Then I remembered, they're 42DCNF TBs. The pipework into the cylinders and also the 6 "trumpets" are only 38mm OD. Why Why Why!

Edited by Skyedriver on Thursday 30th March 20:42