Starting a 3.5litre V8 after 2 years idle
Discussion
Hi there,
I have been restoring a 1973 Range Rover, which has a 3.5litre V8 out of a Rover SD1.
Unfortunately, due to moving house, getting married and a new baby, I haven't been able to do much over the last 2 years and the engine has not been run.
My question is what is the best way to restart the engine, without causing damage as I assume the camshafts etc will be completely dry and there will be a longer period of running before the oil gets everywhere.
I have taken all of the plugs out, squirted some oil into the bores and turned the engine several times by hand, so it has not seized. I have just bought a new battery and was going to turn the engine on the starter next, with the fuel pump fuse out and with the plugs out to expel any remaining oil.
Also is it best to turn it over with the old thicker oil in or cold drain and refill first?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt
I have been restoring a 1973 Range Rover, which has a 3.5litre V8 out of a Rover SD1.
Unfortunately, due to moving house, getting married and a new baby, I haven't been able to do much over the last 2 years and the engine has not been run.
My question is what is the best way to restart the engine, without causing damage as I assume the camshafts etc will be completely dry and there will be a longer period of running before the oil gets everywhere.
I have taken all of the plugs out, squirted some oil into the bores and turned the engine several times by hand, so it has not seized. I have just bought a new battery and was going to turn the engine on the starter next, with the fuel pump fuse out and with the plugs out to expel any remaining oil.
Also is it best to turn it over with the old thicker oil in or cold drain and refill first?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt
If you're worried about lubricating the camshaft and rocker gear, take the rocker covers of and douse in oil, also use an oil can to squirt into the rocker cups/pushrod topes, etc. Oil with then drain from the heads into the cam valley lubricating the cam and followers etc.
I'd then drain old oil out and change the filter, refill with the cheapest 20/50 oil you can find (the sort of stuff you find gathering dust in the corner at our local autofactors). Then crank the engine on the starter (with the plugs out) until the oil pressure light goes out (that will be about 5psi pressure). After that plugs in and fire it up, try and keep the revs to about 1500/2000rpm for several minutes (as if you were running in a new cam).
I'd then change the oil after a couple of hundred miles with you're favourite flavour of RV8 oil. My preference is Valvoline VR1 20w50, but everyone has a favourite flavour.
Regards
Iain
I'd then drain old oil out and change the filter, refill with the cheapest 20/50 oil you can find (the sort of stuff you find gathering dust in the corner at our local autofactors). Then crank the engine on the starter (with the plugs out) until the oil pressure light goes out (that will be about 5psi pressure). After that plugs in and fire it up, try and keep the revs to about 1500/2000rpm for several minutes (as if you were running in a new cam).
I'd then change the oil after a couple of hundred miles with you're favourite flavour of RV8 oil. My preference is Valvoline VR1 20w50, but everyone has a favourite flavour.
Regards
Iain
Hi chassis,
Thanks for the reply. I thought I should take the rockers off and do that. They are coated with all sorts of crud and loose paint and dirt though, so I'll have to clean up the whole area before doing that. Was hoping someone might have a clever trick way of doing it.
This seems to be the trouble with this restoration. I can get lots done in bursts of effort but then things get in the way and I might not be able to do anything for months, in which time more things seem to go wrong or decay. Will I ever get her on the road again?!
Matt
Thanks for the reply. I thought I should take the rockers off and do that. They are coated with all sorts of crud and loose paint and dirt though, so I'll have to clean up the whole area before doing that. Was hoping someone might have a clever trick way of doing it.
This seems to be the trouble with this restoration. I can get lots done in bursts of effort but then things get in the way and I might not be able to do anything for months, in which time more things seem to go wrong or decay. Will I ever get her on the road again?!
Matt
alternatively get a really powerful drill, take out the dizzy, and using a flat ended implement (i like the awls for drilling big holes in wood), engage the oil pump and pump like mad for a bit- that'll move a load of oil round the engine and get everything nice and lubed.
obviously replace the oil, all filters, and put NEW petrol in the tank- if you ahev petrol which is 2 years old then it will not be very much use.
Can of carb cleaner probably wouldn't hurt either.
obviously replace the oil, all filters, and put NEW petrol in the tank- if you ahev petrol which is 2 years old then it will not be very much use.
Can of carb cleaner probably wouldn't hurt either.
Thanks all for your help.
Looks like I'd better play safe and remove the rockers.
Have never done this and expect I probably won't like what I find, as it looks pretty black in there from looking in down the oil filler neck.
Good advice on the oil pump. I replaced the gears a few years back but am aware of the "don't take too long replacing the oil filter" thing regarding it not priming.
I think I will pour the oil in via the rockers as suggested and then try turning over with the fuel off and see if I get pressure. If nothing after a few seconds I will stop and reprime the pump.
Sound sensible?
Then once it has some warmth in the oil, I will drain and change filters,oil etc. Fuel is virtually out anyway, so a refill with new stuff should dilute the old sufficiently?
Cheers guys,
Matt
Looks like I'd better play safe and remove the rockers.
Have never done this and expect I probably won't like what I find, as it looks pretty black in there from looking in down the oil filler neck.
Good advice on the oil pump. I replaced the gears a few years back but am aware of the "don't take too long replacing the oil filter" thing regarding it not priming.
I think I will pour the oil in via the rockers as suggested and then try turning over with the fuel off and see if I get pressure. If nothing after a few seconds I will stop and reprime the pump.
Sound sensible?
Then once it has some warmth in the oil, I will drain and change filters,oil etc. Fuel is virtually out anyway, so a refill with new stuff should dilute the old sufficiently?
Cheers guys,
Matt
taylormj4 said:
I think I will pour the oil in via the rockers as suggested and then try turning over with the fuel off and see if I get pressure. If nothing after a few seconds I will stop and reprime the pump.
It could well take a lot more than "a few seconds" either be brave and keep cranking or do the power drill trick already mentioned.leorest said:
taylormj4 said:
I think I will pour the oil in via the rockers as suggested and then try turning over with the fuel off and see if I get pressure. If nothing after a few seconds I will stop and reprime the pump.
It could well take a lot more than "a few seconds" either be brave and keep cranking or do the power drill trick already mentioned.Hmmm, you're probably right. Especially with the state my Big Ends are in (knocking on fire-up for a few seconds then goes but can hear it coming back under heavy loading). Will get round to sorting them out one day.
Matt
Edited by taylormj4 on Friday 27th April 15:37
ringram said:
Or you can disconnect the ignition and just turn the engine over a few times with the spark plugs out.
Not much load on it until oil pressure is built up and the rings are loosened up etc
Not much load on it until oil pressure is built up and the rings are loosened up etc
This is true for most of the bearings and moving surfaces but not the cam which is still subject to the spring loads.
Steve
Hi all,
Got the rocker covers off last weekend, to pour the oil in from the top prior to a plugs-out start up as suggested.
Found the rocker bays to be full of a black soil-like sludge. It was mainly gathered around the edges where the gasket lies. No emulsion indicating water ingress, just this stuff like soil, really crumbly and saturated in oil.
Any ideas what this stuff could be - old gasket that has broken off?
It took me 2 hours per rocker bay to clean it all out. I should really strip the engine and give it all a good clean out but I do not have time for this at the moment. Some of the 'soil' unfortunately fell down the drains and this will now be in the camshaft area.
I have turned her over plugs out and got good oil pressure, so I'm thinking drain the oil and any crap that's in the sump and fill with new cheap stuff. Start her up and run her up to operating temperature with the cheap stuff. Then drain, fill with engine flush, run and drain, then fill with good stuff.
All comments welcome. Any ideas?
Cheers,
Matt.
Got the rocker covers off last weekend, to pour the oil in from the top prior to a plugs-out start up as suggested.
Found the rocker bays to be full of a black soil-like sludge. It was mainly gathered around the edges where the gasket lies. No emulsion indicating water ingress, just this stuff like soil, really crumbly and saturated in oil.
Any ideas what this stuff could be - old gasket that has broken off?
It took me 2 hours per rocker bay to clean it all out. I should really strip the engine and give it all a good clean out but I do not have time for this at the moment. Some of the 'soil' unfortunately fell down the drains and this will now be in the camshaft area.
I have turned her over plugs out and got good oil pressure, so I'm thinking drain the oil and any crap that's in the sump and fill with new cheap stuff. Start her up and run her up to operating temperature with the cheap stuff. Then drain, fill with engine flush, run and drain, then fill with good stuff.
All comments welcome. Any ideas?
Cheers,
Matt.
As has been said you should treat it as if it had a new cam. Start and bring up to 1500-2000rpm and keep it there for 15 minutes. As it warms you can rev it a bit but don't let it come down below about 1200.
Don't forget to choose the right time to do this. i.e. 10.30 in the evening is not a good time.
Steve
Don't forget to choose the right time to do this. i.e. 10.30 in the evening is not a good time.
Steve
if you had quite a lot of blacks sludge then it's a very veyr good indicator that the engine hasn't been very well looked after and is close to needing a proper rebuild.
i had 2 RV8s which i rebuilt over the last few years, both had 120k on them- one had had oil changes every 3000miles, one every 10,000 miles. The former was totally smooth inside with a nice dark golden colour, the latter had tons of sludge in it. I think the former was also driven by someone with more machine sympathy than the other. The first engine has been running fine for 30k miles, the second needed a re-bore!
i had 2 RV8s which i rebuilt over the last few years, both had 120k on them- one had had oil changes every 3000miles, one every 10,000 miles. The former was totally smooth inside with a nice dark golden colour, the latter had tons of sludge in it. I think the former was also driven by someone with more machine sympathy than the other. The first engine has been running fine for 30k miles, the second needed a re-bore!
ELAN+2 said:
to prime the oil pump on the rover engine, you pack the oil pump with vaseline, it wont develop enough suction to lift the oil from the sump if its been left for a couple of years. The vaseline will overcome this and just disolve into the oil.
Hi Elan,I know what you mean. I used this technique when I replaced the oil pump gears several years ago. I tried turning over on the starter and the oil pressure came up to around 40 pretty quickly, so presumably the oil pump has remained primed even though left for so long, either that or it was primed by the oil I poured into the rockers.
Cheers,
Matt
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff