Discussion
Interesting read thanks again. Impressive the Civic Type-R uses 95 ron. I had the impression a lot of modern high performance cars specified super unleaded fuel, perhaps it's more commonly turbocharged ones...
Interestingly, the 2.5-16 is in for MOT this week so I'm driving my other 190E, a 2.0 8 valve automatic. I should hate it, but the torquey engine and proper throttle response have made it feel like an upgrade! Loads of torquey wafty shove at any speed and revs. It feels quicker overall, despite its 122 bhp versus ~200. By comparison the 2.5-16 is massively hesitant, saggy, flat right through its midrange. Perhaps KE-Jet is out of its depth with this sort of engine?
Interestingly, the 2.5-16 is in for MOT this week so I'm driving my other 190E, a 2.0 8 valve automatic. I should hate it, but the torquey engine and proper throttle response have made it feel like an upgrade! Loads of torquey wafty shove at any speed and revs. It feels quicker overall, despite its 122 bhp versus ~200. By comparison the 2.5-16 is massively hesitant, saggy, flat right through its midrange. Perhaps KE-Jet is out of its depth with this sort of engine?
Pentoman said:
Interesting read thanks again. Impressive the Civic Type-R uses 95 ron. I had the impression a lot of modern high performance cars specified super unleaded fuel, perhaps it's more commonly turbocharged ones...
Honda recommend 98RON but specify a minimum of 95RON. The knock sensor equipped engine management takes care of the ignition timing. The Japanese market versions have a compression ratio of 11.5:1 as the fuel in Japan is of higher octane. Steve
Edited by stevesingo on Friday 25th May 12:05
Yesterday we did a leakdown test and it's not great. Soo, I've decided to bite the bullet and put the head right and hope it'll fix my driveability issues 
.
Since my parents run a garage but I don't want to impact them too much I'll remove the head myself as much as possible. I've only ever taken the head off a Lotus twin cam, ages ago, and can't remember what I'm doing so fingers crossed that Mercedes engineering comes through for me and nothing breaks.....
Anyway, here comes another question because this morning I've been reading PPC and getting jealous. There's a Honda S2000 engine (in a Mk2 escort) there which made 265bhp after remap, the only difference being a big tubular exhaust manifold and custom exhaust. That's +25bhp!
Additionally there's a Peugeot 306 GTi buying guide. That says "(PT81 Sports R) cams, an ECU remap, and good exhaust and filter have been proven to make 195bhp" - up from 167.
These sound like impressive gains for fairly simple tuning work. I certainly didn't know Peugeot made engines so easily capable of 100bhp/litre..!! Since mine's a cosworth unit and once upon a time was all singing- all dancing, can't I get similar gains from my engine? As standard it's a tame-ish 81bhp/litre on premium unleaded. Since I'm going to be taking it apart anyway...
.Since my parents run a garage but I don't want to impact them too much I'll remove the head myself as much as possible. I've only ever taken the head off a Lotus twin cam, ages ago, and can't remember what I'm doing so fingers crossed that Mercedes engineering comes through for me and nothing breaks.....
Anyway, here comes another question because this morning I've been reading PPC and getting jealous. There's a Honda S2000 engine (in a Mk2 escort) there which made 265bhp after remap, the only difference being a big tubular exhaust manifold and custom exhaust. That's +25bhp!
Additionally there's a Peugeot 306 GTi buying guide. That says "(PT81 Sports R) cams, an ECU remap, and good exhaust and filter have been proven to make 195bhp" - up from 167.
These sound like impressive gains for fairly simple tuning work. I certainly didn't know Peugeot made engines so easily capable of 100bhp/litre..!! Since mine's a cosworth unit and once upon a time was all singing- all dancing, can't I get similar gains from my engine? As standard it's a tame-ish 81bhp/litre on premium unleaded. Since I'm going to be taking it apart anyway...
So you pull the head and find worn guides and pitted valve seats. Re-cut the seats and fit new guides. Job Done? Not quite...
You might as well do the timing chain, sprockets and guides.
You might find worn bores so a re-bore is in order and new pistons (Might as well investigate some higher compression pistons, possibly Evo models have a hight comp?)
That will involve pulling the whole engine and looking at the bearings, so possibly a crank regrind and new bearings.
I'm not trying to pour piss on your bombfire, look at it as an opportunity to do it right. Pull the engine from the outset and do the lot, it will be easier and probably cheaper in the long run!
Steve
P.S I'm in a similar boat with the bodywork on my E30 M3 and I keep telling myself that I'm doing the right thing when I.m peeling panels apart.
P.P.S www.catcams.be have cams for your engine.
You might as well do the timing chain, sprockets and guides.
You might find worn bores so a re-bore is in order and new pistons (Might as well investigate some higher compression pistons, possibly Evo models have a hight comp?)
That will involve pulling the whole engine and looking at the bearings, so possibly a crank regrind and new bearings.
I'm not trying to pour piss on your bombfire, look at it as an opportunity to do it right. Pull the engine from the outset and do the lot, it will be easier and probably cheaper in the long run!
Steve
P.S I'm in a similar boat with the bodywork on my E30 M3 and I keep telling myself that I'm doing the right thing when I.m peeling panels apart.
P.P.S www.catcams.be have cams for your engine.
Pentoman said:
Additionally there's a Peugeot 306 GTi buying guide. That says "(PT81 Sports R) cams, an ECU remap, and good exhaust and filter have been proven to make 195bhp" - up from 167.
The Mi16 engine has a very good head as standard. The C20XE is capable of over 200bhp from bolt on bits (throttle bodies, exhaust etc.), and the Mi16 has a better flowing head than the XE.A friend of mine runs a 205 rallye car with a very modified Mi16 developing a bit under 270bhp on Emeralds rollers. That was 10k's worth of engine though.
Obviously if there's more than top end damage that will required a rethink when I come to that bridge.
That's exactly what I'd like the idea of - sensible, sensibly priced mods to help make the most of a good basic engine. Unfortunately there's almost nothing available for the Mercedes which is very irritating, and everyone disagrees on what tuning can be done. I am really really seeing the advantages of owning the popular tuned cars such as Imprezas...
On the subject of Peugeots, if I could make it feel as gutsy and willing as the 1.1 in my girlfriend's '98 106 I'd be laughing
.
Mr2Mike said:
Pentoman said:
Additionally there's a Peugeot 306 GTi buying guide. That says "(PT81 Sports R) cams, an ECU remap, and good exhaust and filter have been proven to make 195bhp" - up from 167.
The Mi16 engine has a very good head as standard. The C20XE is capable of over 200bhp from bolt on bits (throttle bodies, exhaust etc.)On the subject of Peugeots, if I could make it feel as gutsy and willing as the 1.1 in my girlfriend's '98 106 I'd be laughing
.Edited by Pentoman on Wednesday 30th May 15:17
OK in storyboard form:
Put away before work started
Radiator removed, valve cover off
Drivetrain coming out
It's in special company today
Head off
Valves
This is the worst cylinder. and it's not bad really
That all-important marking!
There is actually very little wear showing, we are all very surprised (as am I given there's no service history to verify the 104,000 miles). I've also stolen my dad's Ford Ranger crew cab 4x4 and feel like the coolest person ever. So it's all good today.
Put away before work started
Radiator removed, valve cover off
Drivetrain coming out
It's in special company today
Head off
Valves
This is the worst cylinder. and it's not bad really
That all-important marking!
There is actually very little wear showing, we are all very surprised (as am I given there's no service history to verify the 104,000 miles). I've also stolen my dad's Ford Ranger crew cab 4x4 and feel like the coolest person ever. So it's all good today.
4 new valves were needed after testing with some NDT machine (?). I have the new valves now.. will finish grinding them in with rough then smooth grinding paste today.
The bottom end is fine, we poured a diesel/oil mix into the bores and it barely leaked much away even after a few minutes. That's rather nice..
The bottom end is fine, we poured a diesel/oil mix into the bores and it barely leaked much away even after a few minutes. That's rather nice..
Heh well I have a 9-5 job and it's proving time consuming!
Head is straight and needs no machining. Valves are all back in and making a nice heat-transfering seat. I'll uploads pics of it all later. Tonight I hope to complete the 'shimming' after learning how to do it. Hopefully I can then order any shims required and they'll arrive by Friday - I've got Friday off work and could hopefully put it all back together by the end of the day (yeah right).
In the meantime and relevant to the topic start - I'm driving my 2.0 8v at the moment and loving the torquey, fat powerband, especially combined with a good auto. It feels faster than the 2.5-16 most of the time, although I'm sure of course it isn't. If the 2.5-16 was essentially the same torque curve shape but just with extra top-end, I would probably like it more.. however I think they have sacrificed some of the bottom end.
After it's built I will run it on the same strip of road as previously, using my GPS/accelerometer and see if it performs better objectively.
Thanks for sustaining interest, you're doing rather better than me!
Head is straight and needs no machining. Valves are all back in and making a nice heat-transfering seat. I'll uploads pics of it all later. Tonight I hope to complete the 'shimming' after learning how to do it. Hopefully I can then order any shims required and they'll arrive by Friday - I've got Friday off work and could hopefully put it all back together by the end of the day (yeah right).
In the meantime and relevant to the topic start - I'm driving my 2.0 8v at the moment and loving the torquey, fat powerband, especially combined with a good auto. It feels faster than the 2.5-16 most of the time, although I'm sure of course it isn't. If the 2.5-16 was essentially the same torque curve shape but just with extra top-end, I would probably like it more.. however I think they have sacrificed some of the bottom end.
After it's built I will run it on the same strip of road as previously, using my GPS/accelerometer and see if it performs better objectively.
Thanks for sustaining interest, you're doing rather better than me!
Pentoman said:
Heh well I have a 9-5 job and it's proving time consuming!
I know what you mean. http://board.s14power.com/showthread.php?t=2508
You think you've got problems...
Steve
stevesingo said:
Pentoman said:
Heh well I have a 9-5 job and it's proving time consuming!
I know what you mean. http://board.s14power.com/showthread.php?t=2508
You think you've got problems...
Steve
The Mercs suffer from rust too but are a bit better than the M3s it seems. Shame to think of these great cars, which aren't even that old, being ravaged by rust
. Good you're getting yours sorted properly though .Gasket set, 4 new valves
Head ready to go back on (check out that spanner)
A nice close up
And now.. it's back together and running!
Turned it over a while until I got oil pressure, then connected the ignition parts and it started up almost immediately.
And it's awesome! The response and torque low down is hugely improved! Even in 5th at 2000 rpm there's meaningful acceleration. You can actually drive it like a turbo diesel now which I never thought I would say. I've barely been into the high rev ranges becuase I've found little need. It is a lot more like how I imagined a 2.5 N/A engine with a fancy head should feel. The flat spot between 3000 and 4000rpm is gone too. The throttle response still has a slightly soft edge to it in my opinion, which I aim to track down, so perhaps I won't end the thread just yet! But it is so much nicer to drive day to day. In normal slow driving I'm changing up much sooner, because it feels right and it can pull on torque. I didn't realise that what didn't, to me, look like much of a problem, can make such a change.
It's taken a little while for it to sink in, that I've timed it up correctly and it is running and hasn't blown itself to pieces or leaked everything out of somewhere!
The top end is, perhaps, a little better but not hugely noticeable (plus it's been a month since I last drove it..) - it's all about the flexibility. There was a misfire for the first 30-45 minutes after getting the car running, which has now gone away. What can I put this down to?
Oh and as a bonus it starts much better and idles smoother.
It was still bloody hard work... it is a satisfying feeling now I'm done but I wouldn't want to do it again soon...
Head ready to go back on (check out that spanner)
A nice close up
And now.. it's back together and running!
Turned it over a while until I got oil pressure, then connected the ignition parts and it started up almost immediately
.And it's awesome! The response and torque low down is hugely improved! Even in 5th at 2000 rpm there's meaningful acceleration. You can actually drive it like a turbo diesel now which I never thought I would say. I've barely been into the high rev ranges becuase I've found little need. It is a lot more like how I imagined a 2.5 N/A engine with a fancy head should feel. The flat spot between 3000 and 4000rpm is gone too. The throttle response still has a slightly soft edge to it in my opinion, which I aim to track down, so perhaps I won't end the thread just yet! But it is so much nicer to drive day to day. In normal slow driving I'm changing up much sooner, because it feels right and it can pull on torque. I didn't realise that what didn't, to me, look like much of a problem, can make such a change.
It's taken a little while for it to sink in, that I've timed it up correctly and it is running and hasn't blown itself to pieces or leaked everything out of somewhere!
The top end is, perhaps, a little better but not hugely noticeable (plus it's been a month since I last drove it..) - it's all about the flexibility. There was a misfire for the first 30-45 minutes after getting the car running, which has now gone away. What can I put this down to?
Oh and as a bonus it starts much better and idles smoother.
It was still bloody hard work... it is a satisfying feeling now I'm done but I wouldn't want to do it again soon...
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff