Eninge options needed
Discussion
I want to fit a modern engine to a Westfield XI, but the space is pretty small.
It needs to have a RWD 'box to bolt on with fussingout around - if there's one that needs us to buy adapter plates, that's fine, but there's no way we'll take the hit of sorting out a system ourselves.
It can be small capacity a 1-1.2l zetec would be fine for instance.
If it needs to be dry-sumped to fit, that's fine too - so long as (yet again) we can buy something to do it and not have to engneer something for us.
The original engine is a BMC 'A' series 1275cc. Pic in situ here (from the EVO review) http://www.evo.co.uk/front_website/gallery.php?o=0...
Any ideas?
Oh, and no two-strokes - This thing will be left for a month, started up, driven away then parked up again. Odd tinkering after being setup on randomly odd weekends only! (hence the modern request with easy to get bits requirement)
I'd prefer a car engine (not sure why really), but I don't mind a bike so long as it all fits together easy enough and has an easy reverese system.
Any ideas?
It needs to have a RWD 'box to bolt on with fussingout around - if there's one that needs us to buy adapter plates, that's fine, but there's no way we'll take the hit of sorting out a system ourselves.
It can be small capacity a 1-1.2l zetec would be fine for instance.
If it needs to be dry-sumped to fit, that's fine too - so long as (yet again) we can buy something to do it and not have to engneer something for us.
The original engine is a BMC 'A' series 1275cc. Pic in situ here (from the EVO review) http://www.evo.co.uk/front_website/gallery.php?o=0...
Any ideas?
Oh, and no two-strokes - This thing will be left for a month, started up, driven away then parked up again. Odd tinkering after being setup on randomly odd weekends only! (hence the modern request with easy to get bits requirement)
I'd prefer a car engine (not sure why really), but I don't mind a bike so long as it all fits together easy enough and has an easy reverese system.
Any ideas?
Loads of bits available for an A-series just check mini or mg magazines. Lots more tuning goodies available too and power output run from the sedate to the ridiculus. (250bhp+ is possible with turbocharging)
The reliability issues with the A-series in a Mini are 99/100 electrically related due to the radiator being on the side of the engine and the distributor being on the front. Which will not be the case in the XI.
Oil leak problems on mini's tend to originate from the gearbox.
A well built A+ (it will be), with regular maintenance will run just as long as any modern engine.
The only benefit I can possibly see is weight.
The reliability issues with the A-series in a Mini are 99/100 electrically related due to the radiator being on the side of the engine and the distributor being on the front. Which will not be the case in the XI.
Oil leak problems on mini's tend to originate from the gearbox.
A well built A+ (it will be), with regular maintenance will run just as long as any modern engine.
The only benefit I can possibly see is weight.
In case you don't read my reply in the kit car section, I'd still go A series. They don't really require any maintenance, except the points re-gapping every now and then, and maybe checking the carbs over (if using SU's).Any modern engine will normally be injection, and that would look silly under the bonnet, IMO. You'd expect to see twin HS 4s, or a single DCOE 45 maybe. The midget comes with these bits already. Also, a dry sump kit for such a small engine is likely to be a bit rare, as it would never need it for racing, you'd just use a bigger engine. Unless it shares a bloke with something more exciting. The K series, whilst a good revvy engine, and perfect for light weight sports cars, is too tall. Unless you want a bonnet bulge, but that seems a bit sacrilegious to me. A bike engine would be a waste of time in such a car. Yes it would be fast, once you've stopped the 165 tyres spinning 150+ bhp away, but it would make touring/cruising a PITA, as most are geared for about 6-7Krpm at 70. Which annoys the hell out of me in my car, but my 7 isn't much use for touring. I would like to go out and about Europe if poss in my XI though. The XI owners I've spoken to have said 120 ish bhp is the most you'll ever really be able to use, so any more is just tyre smoke. But with tyres £25 a corner you can afford to waste a few sets.
Oh, and the A series will sound right for the looks. A high revving engine would seem odd to me. A V6 or V8 would sound the part though........
Oh, and the A series will sound right for the looks. A high revving engine would seem odd to me. A V6 or V8 would sound the part though........
I'm known for bad typing and spelling in some parts 
With the problem of getting a back-axel and other non-drive-chain oily bits, I think I'll have to find an old midget as a donor. SACRALIGE! (again with the spelling you see!)
I also some experience with keeping a A series alive (I didn't realise the mini A series is the same as the BMC A series in the donor cars - I thought the weird gearbox stuck under the block was just a one-off!) from my old 998cc mini.
My worries are things like the vacuum advance leaking and all the other 'odd' technology that I'm not used to causing problems and leading to us spending a lot of time just rtacking down little niggly problems. I like the look of carbs and a pair of SUs would look good under there - just tuning them is a pain.
One last issue I have with an old A series - unleaded petrol. I was going to get an unleaded head for mine, but it went off to the big scrapyard in the sky before I did.
Are these still an option? Surely an unleaded conversion also needs new pistons and piston rings? maybe even new cylinder linings?
It's not more power that I want - 60-100 bhp will be fine! - it's just something that's cheap, easy to get bits for, easy to work on and reliable. It'd be a bonus if it was light, but all iron engines have their advantages.
If the A-series is relaible and we can still get bits really easy and cheap, I know they're not that hard to work on - esp given the space in the bay on an XI compared to the mini, so maybe I shouldn't worry.
Though last night Slamm said she's worried about taking such a car racing as the panels may be a tad expensive to replace! We're going to Snett TKCL this month and we're hoping Westfield will take an XI and we can badger them the whole timew we're there with usless questions, then think of a load more just after we leave
She's also worried about having to shift the Elise out of the garage (as am I TBH) so I think we may have to stick a carport somewhere first.
I'll leave this thread here as I may get some other options posted that I can look into. After my personal discovery of the GTti engine and others from a thread I started a while ago (which was power from little engines) I have a few to look at.
With the problem of getting a back-axel and other non-drive-chain oily bits, I think I'll have to find an old midget as a donor. SACRALIGE! (again with the spelling you see!)
I also some experience with keeping a A series alive (I didn't realise the mini A series is the same as the BMC A series in the donor cars - I thought the weird gearbox stuck under the block was just a one-off!) from my old 998cc mini.
My worries are things like the vacuum advance leaking and all the other 'odd' technology that I'm not used to causing problems and leading to us spending a lot of time just rtacking down little niggly problems. I like the look of carbs and a pair of SUs would look good under there - just tuning them is a pain.
One last issue I have with an old A series - unleaded petrol. I was going to get an unleaded head for mine, but it went off to the big scrapyard in the sky before I did.
Are these still an option? Surely an unleaded conversion also needs new pistons and piston rings? maybe even new cylinder linings?
It's not more power that I want - 60-100 bhp will be fine! - it's just something that's cheap, easy to get bits for, easy to work on and reliable. It'd be a bonus if it was light, but all iron engines have their advantages.
If the A-series is relaible and we can still get bits really easy and cheap, I know they're not that hard to work on - esp given the space in the bay on an XI compared to the mini, so maybe I shouldn't worry.
Though last night Slamm said she's worried about taking such a car racing as the panels may be a tad expensive to replace! We're going to Snett TKCL this month and we're hoping Westfield will take an XI and we can badger them the whole timew we're there with usless questions, then think of a load more just after we leave
She's also worried about having to shift the Elise out of the garage (as am I TBH) so I think we may have to stick a carport somewhere first.I'll leave this thread here as I may get some other options posted that I can look into. After my personal discovery of the GTti engine and others from a thread I started a while ago (which was power from little engines) I have a few to look at.
Foolish Dave said:
One last issue I have with an old A series - unleaded petrol. I was going to get an unleaded head for mine, but it went off to the big scrapyard in the sky before I did.
Are these still an option? Surely an unleaded conversion also needs new pistons and piston rings? maybe even new cylinder linings?
Nope. Only thing you need to run old engines on unleaded are harder valve seats (inserts) so that the valves don't 'regress' into the heads.Are these still an option? Surely an unleaded conversion also needs new pistons and piston rings? maybe even new cylinder linings?
However, valve regression is a very slow process, and as you've clearly only going to be using the car rarely I'd consider using a 'leaded' head and lead replacement additive. Far cheaper than an unleaded head for low mileage and you can also get combined lead replacement/octane booster additives.
The 1275 midget engine and the BMC engine have always been the same, as BMC used to make the mini! As was the 1098 actually (the 998 was never inline). The gearbox is a standard inline job, as the back of the block is different to accept a different rear oil bearing and bolt pattern. Also, the only difference is the valve seats for the unleaded fuel. All the other bits are the same.
Don't worry about the vacuum advance, or the carbs. Once the vac pipe is attached, it tends to stay there. The carbs, once set up correctly on a RR, will only ever go out of tune if they wear out, which takes years. Carbs do not go off tune, it tends to be timing issues that show up with time, ie the cam in the dizzy wears a little, the points need replacing/setting up, the dizzy cap gets a bit manky etc etc. The a series with points and twin SU's is about as bomb proof as engines get, as there really is naff all to go wrong.
Don't worry about the vacuum advance, or the carbs. Once the vac pipe is attached, it tends to stay there. The carbs, once set up correctly on a RR, will only ever go out of tune if they wear out, which takes years. Carbs do not go off tune, it tends to be timing issues that show up with time, ie the cam in the dizzy wears a little, the points need replacing/setting up, the dizzy cap gets a bit manky etc etc. The a series with points and twin SU's is about as bomb proof as engines get, as there really is naff all to go wrong.
Edited by Snake the Sniper on Wednesday 4th July 15:23
A well put tougher a-series should have no problems.
For extra reliability in the wet I would recommend putting a electronic distributor on, ones from metro don’t cost much and save a lot of messing about.
If you want serious power and reasonable reliability go for a supercharger or a sensible overbore 1340cc.
For extra reliability in the wet I would recommend putting a electronic distributor on, ones from metro don’t cost much and save a lot of messing about.
If you want serious power and reasonable reliability go for a supercharger or a sensible overbore 1340cc.
What about some of the older BMW 4pots?
A Ford CVH (Mk3 Escort era) Would bolt straight onto a type 9 (sierra 5-spd gearbox) wouldnt it?
How about a 1.3 from the ford KA? Thats as near as dammit a Kent x-flow isnt it? again i thin it'll bolt onto a type 9.
(que sharp intake of breath): Rover K-Series? a rover engine, replacing an Austin Rover/Rover/BMC engine. and again there are adaptors available for the type 9
(if you're wondering if i have a fetish for the type 9 or sommat, its because its the only 5-spd gearbox that i can remember the name of. Quite cheap, and easily avaialble)
for real s**ts and giggles, what about a mazda rotary?
A Ford CVH (Mk3 Escort era) Would bolt straight onto a type 9 (sierra 5-spd gearbox) wouldnt it?
How about a 1.3 from the ford KA? Thats as near as dammit a Kent x-flow isnt it? again i thin it'll bolt onto a type 9.
(que sharp intake of breath): Rover K-Series? a rover engine, replacing an Austin Rover/Rover/BMC engine. and again there are adaptors available for the type 9
(if you're wondering if i have a fetish for the type 9 or sommat, its because its the only 5-spd gearbox that i can remember the name of. Quite cheap, and easily avaialble)
for real s**ts and giggles, what about a mazda rotary?
As I've said before, the only real issue is height. Modern engines are OHC/DOHC and as such can be anthing up to 3-5" taller than the A series, which only just about fits, as there is very little room to go up. The rotary is a possible though, but finding a back axle that'll take all the extra power may be a bit of a search, or just plain expensive.
High Foolish Dave,
Have you thought about the 8V Vauxhall OHC engine from an Astra,Nova,Corsa or Cavaliar?
Good little reliable engines. You can get them in 1.3, 1.4, & 1.6.
They also come in 1.8 & 2.0 but i think these are taller.
They used a version of this in the Manta so gearboxes should'nt be a problem.
When you mentioned about an engine not being much bigger than the mini lump i remembered that someone in readers cars(Practical Performance Car)had fitted one in their Mini clubman.
The article said it was relatively easy to fit space wise.
They also mention bout getting advise n help from a site called 16vmini.com.
I googled this n found its got a link to the Clubman build at 1.6mini.co.uk.
As for axles the obvious choice would have to be a Ford Escort,Anglia,100E. Or if these ain't narrow enough how bout Austin A30,A35,A40 jobbys.
Nother engine thats just popped into me head is the old Vauxhall 1256 lump.
Dont laugh, think they used a version of this in the base model Astra,Nova & Corsa models (Corsa E 1.2). So will be a tried & tested engine with modern touches such as electronic ignition, unleaded & model dependent, fuel injection.
Hope this helps.
Goodluck with the build.
Have you thought about the 8V Vauxhall OHC engine from an Astra,Nova,Corsa or Cavaliar?
Good little reliable engines. You can get them in 1.3, 1.4, & 1.6.
They also come in 1.8 & 2.0 but i think these are taller.
They used a version of this in the Manta so gearboxes should'nt be a problem.
When you mentioned about an engine not being much bigger than the mini lump i remembered that someone in readers cars(Practical Performance Car)had fitted one in their Mini clubman.
The article said it was relatively easy to fit space wise.
They also mention bout getting advise n help from a site called 16vmini.com.
I googled this n found its got a link to the Clubman build at 1.6mini.co.uk.
As for axles the obvious choice would have to be a Ford Escort,Anglia,100E. Or if these ain't narrow enough how bout Austin A30,A35,A40 jobbys.
Nother engine thats just popped into me head is the old Vauxhall 1256 lump.
Dont laugh, think they used a version of this in the base model Astra,Nova & Corsa models (Corsa E 1.2). So will be a tried & tested engine with modern touches such as electronic ignition, unleaded & model dependent, fuel injection.
Hope this helps.
Goodluck with the build.
On a totally off the wall note bout engines in Minis.
Check out this link http://www.geocities.com/jharkola/Viku2.html.
Still cant believe it after looking at the pictures!!!
A Rover V8 in the front of a Mini Clubman still being front wheel drive!!!!
Amazing & mad all at the same time.
Favorite Quote from the site "What is even more surprising is that this car does not feel over engined. It runs just about the same way an original Mini does. Only difference being the extra torque…"
Have fun.
Check out this link http://www.geocities.com/jharkola/Viku2.html.
Still cant believe it after looking at the pictures!!!
A Rover V8 in the front of a Mini Clubman still being front wheel drive!!!!
Amazing & mad all at the same time.
Favorite Quote from the site "What is even more surprising is that this car does not feel over engined. It runs just about the same way an original Mini does. Only difference being the extra torque…"
Have fun.
Yeah, I think we're going to go with an A-series. It's all just a lot easier and once the electrics are ok I won't worry about it.
Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
Foolish Dave said:
Yeah, I think we're going to go with an A-series. It's all just a lot easier and once the electrics are ok I won't worry about it.
Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
Not Megasquirt, Megajolt which just does the ignition, you keep you carbs Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
If you are building a performance A-series for the road ... I'd suggest you look at a Swiftune SW5 cam. Superb Cam profile, lots of torque, not at all peaky and very drivable even with High ratio rockers fitted.
Going onto a mapped ignition system is very good idea if your budget allows.
Going onto a mapped ignition system is very good idea if your budget allows.
annodomini2 said:
Foolish Dave said:
Yeah, I think we're going to go with an A-series. It's all just a lot easier and once the electrics are ok I won't worry about it.
Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
Not Megasquirt, Megajolt which just does the ignition, you keep you carbs Not sure about the MegaSquirt though... I was at first, but the idea of a couple of nice carbs under the bonnet is too good to miss - maybe I could stick a couple of carbs in there for display and use MegaSquirt anyway
I heard of something that fits inside the footprint of the dizzy that does the ignition and timing and is waterproof... Maybe I should look into megajolt and see if they are the same thing...
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