Lightly Super/Turbo-charging a 2.0l 4 cyl
Discussion
I was wondering if there is any benefit vs cost/hassle in 'lightly' supercharging a 2.0l 4cyl engine like the type found in a Toyota Rav 4/Honda CRV/Nissan Xtrail.
Since moving to Greece I no longer have the option of diesel (banned in Athens). I'm considering an auto version of one of these soft roaders for the missus.
I find them allright but lacking in torquue and general overtaking punch on the national roads-they have to revved hard which is noisy and the auto boxes are slow to respond sometimes.
So I was thinking how well a small super/turbo charger would work on something like this with the aim of improving low down torque. I'm trying to achieve something akin to a diesel power delivery as the long gearing of the 4 speed autos seem ideal for low down torque delivery rather than a peak power figure deliverd at 5000+rpm.
Is a conversion like this more hassle than it's worth?
Since moving to Greece I no longer have the option of diesel (banned in Athens). I'm considering an auto version of one of these soft roaders for the missus.
I find them allright but lacking in torquue and general overtaking punch on the national roads-they have to revved hard which is noisy and the auto boxes are slow to respond sometimes.
So I was thinking how well a small super/turbo charger would work on something like this with the aim of improving low down torque. I'm trying to achieve something akin to a diesel power delivery as the long gearing of the 4 speed autos seem ideal for low down torque delivery rather than a peak power figure deliverd at 5000+rpm.
Is a conversion like this more hassle than it's worth?
No reason why a small turbo conversion wouldnt work very well....
Unless seeking huge power, I wouldnt have any concerns over lag, or losing power at the top end.
We dont use dinosaur turbos anymore....
Choose the right unit, and lag will be almost non-existent, and give you a good boost....especially on a high compression engine.
But do fit a good intercooler, and choose a good method of controlling fuel/ignition.
No reason why you cant use a good 7-8psi even on 10.0:1 CR quite safely.
Why dont they allow diesels ?
Unless seeking huge power, I wouldnt have any concerns over lag, or losing power at the top end.
We dont use dinosaur turbos anymore....
Choose the right unit, and lag will be almost non-existent, and give you a good boost....especially on a high compression engine.
But do fit a good intercooler, and choose a good method of controlling fuel/ignition.
No reason why you cant use a good 7-8psi even on 10.0:1 CR quite safely.
Why dont they allow diesels ?
paolow said:
Is a conversion like this more hassle than it's worth?
besides which the turbo will give best power at higher revs and will be useless lower down - which isnt what you want
cobblers. That depends entirely on the size, trim, housings and other factors, all of which are variable and can be determined by the correct selection of turbo. besides which the turbo will give best power at higher revs and will be useless lower down - which isnt what you want
As mentioned there's no reason why you couldn't do this sort of conversion. I know a few folk with reworked pickups and 4x4's, mainly in the middle east (dubai area) though.
What it'd cost I'm not sure really, can't say I know an awful lot about the engines in them, but in the past nissan V6's have tended to be very capable and strong beasts, so I could see them quite happily running a small turbo to perk them up a touch, without needing much if any reworking.
Cheers chaps.
I'm looking at something for torque gains rather than outright power hence the mention of SC as well. Surely a SC will give more low down boost with less lag as it's engine driven?
I'm thinking along the line of the new VW 140bhp 1,4l which has a SC at lowrev and turbo higher up. Except I just want the low rev gains.
Another question-do switchable SC's like the ones in Mad Max exist?
I've not com accross something 'off the shelf' yet but I am sure they are out there as a small blower to boost torque on this sort of vehicle makes alot sense.
I'm looking at something for torque gains rather than outright power hence the mention of SC as well. Surely a SC will give more low down boost with less lag as it's engine driven?
I'm thinking along the line of the new VW 140bhp 1,4l which has a SC at lowrev and turbo higher up. Except I just want the low rev gains.
Another question-do switchable SC's like the ones in Mad Max exist?
I've not com accross something 'off the shelf' yet but I am sure they are out there as a small blower to boost torque on this sort of vehicle makes alot sense.
If you've got a bypass butterfly in the supercharger installation then you don't need the 'switchable type' As on the over-run and light throttle the supercharger is effectively unloaded so reducing power to turn.
see http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm
Matt
see http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm
Matt
Dino D said:
Cheers chaps.
I'm looking at something for torque gains rather than outright power hence the mention of SC as well. Surely a SC will give more low down boost with less lag as it's engine driven?
I'm thinking along the line of the new VW 140bhp 1,4l which has a SC at lowrev and turbo higher up. Except I just want the low rev gains.
Another question-do switchable SC's like the ones in Mad Max exist?
I've not com accross something 'off the shelf' yet but I am sure they are out there as a small blower to boost torque on this sort of vehicle makes alot sense.
Yes, what you want is the 1L pass lysholm supercharger as fitted to the Mazda Millenia, it has the electric declutch. In order to make the most out of the switchability, you might want to use megasquirt to back the fuelling off and adjust the ignition appropriately. They are big but very good quality. I'm looking at something for torque gains rather than outright power hence the mention of SC as well. Surely a SC will give more low down boost with less lag as it's engine driven?
I'm thinking along the line of the new VW 140bhp 1,4l which has a SC at lowrev and turbo higher up. Except I just want the low rev gains.
Another question-do switchable SC's like the ones in Mad Max exist?
I've not com accross something 'off the shelf' yet but I am sure they are out there as a small blower to boost torque on this sort of vehicle makes alot sense.
For an auto soft roader it isn't really worth the
ing about. Get her a Robin Hood with a pinto or something and put the blower on that! 
Something that hasnt been touched on here....
You say the vehicle is automatic ?
What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
This may also affect whether a turbo or SC is more suitable. A lot of modern autos seem to love to rev...which would make an SC almost pointless.
You say the vehicle is automatic ?
What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
This may also affect whether a turbo or SC is more suitable. A lot of modern autos seem to love to rev...which would make an SC almost pointless.
stevieturbo said:
Something that hasnt been touched on here....
You say the vehicle is automatic ?
What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
This may also affect whether a turbo or SC is more suitable. A lot of modern autos seem to love to rev...which would make an SC almost pointless.
unless he went with a centrifugal blower! You say the vehicle is automatic ?
What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
This may also affect whether a turbo or SC is more suitable. A lot of modern autos seem to love to rev...which would make an SC almost pointless.
so you think the YSI or F-1a would fit??? lol
stevieturbo said:
You say the vehicle is automatic ?
What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
Good point. What sort of rpm band does the transmission normally see you driving in etc ?
Lower revs actually. Not much over 3,5-4k rpm. That sees 100-120km/h in top gear which is plenty really.
The gearing is longish being only a 4 speed. The engines on these things are thrashy and it's not pleasurable to rev it anywhere near the red line. Plus, high revs just don't suit the nature of the vehicle or the shifting abilities of the auto box. Hence looking for torque when overtaking to avoid unruly kickdowns and screaming revs with not much go to show for it!
Basiclly trying to get a 'TDI' type driving experience.
Id say a twin screw blower, or a small turbo is best.
Turbo probably being the easiest and cheapest tho..
If you could also bluff the transmission too, so it doesnt kickdown as often, it will help. It will at least allow you to use a decent amount of throttle, before it does shift down gears, which will make it easier to use any torque that is available.
Turbo probably being the easiest and cheapest tho..
If you could also bluff the transmission too, so it doesnt kickdown as often, it will help. It will at least allow you to use a decent amount of throttle, before it does shift down gears, which will make it easier to use any torque that is available.
stevieturbo said:
If you could also bluff the transmission too, so it doesnt kickdown as often, it will help. It will at least allow you to use a decent amount of throttle, before it does shift down gears, which will make it easier to use any torque that is available.
That's really what I want to do, more grunt with less kickdowns for nice, effortless progress.Would the extra shove from the turbo be enought to bluff the kickdown simply by virtue of the fact that I will use less throttle opening to get more power?
Or do I have to do something to it?
Well...on my horrible Volvo TD auto.....
It is a simple mechanical auto, with a kickdown linkage on the accelerator cable etc.
I just slackened this off, so basically the auto box always see's much smaller throttle openings, even if I am WOT, so it has much less tendency to downshift.
As to whether modern auto's can be bluffed as easy as this, I have no idea.
It is a simple mechanical auto, with a kickdown linkage on the accelerator cable etc.
I just slackened this off, so basically the auto box always see's much smaller throttle openings, even if I am WOT, so it has much less tendency to downshift.
As to whether modern auto's can be bluffed as easy as this, I have no idea.
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