MSD Ignition systems
Discussion
IGNITION SET UPS
Can someonme explain exactly what an MSD does, I had thought it was a posh ignition amplifier, is that correct? Are there diffent boxes for use with varried cylinder configuratiions, V6, V8, V12 etc or can you use one box for all applications?
I have a V12, which has 24 spark plugs, (12 inlet side and 12 exhaust side),each set of plugs is served by a modified Jaguar V12 distributor. At present these are timed 4 degrees apart although I am going to experiment with syncronising the timming of both sets of plugs.
Would it be worth treating each bank of cylinders as a straight 6 rather than looking at it as a V12?
Any help appreciated.
Can someonme explain exactly what an MSD does, I had thought it was a posh ignition amplifier, is that correct? Are there diffent boxes for use with varried cylinder configuratiions, V6, V8, V12 etc or can you use one box for all applications?
I have a V12, which has 24 spark plugs, (12 inlet side and 12 exhaust side),each set of plugs is served by a modified Jaguar V12 distributor. At present these are timed 4 degrees apart although I am going to experiment with syncronising the timming of both sets of plugs.
Would it be worth treating each bank of cylinders as a straight 6 rather than looking at it as a V12?
Any help appreciated.
Yes it is a fancy ignition amp. You need as many msd boxes as you have ignition coils. A low revs it will actually fire the plugs more than once. Gives a more powerful spark, most useful on forced induction or nitrous.
At higher RPMs, with the high cylinder count you dont get much dwell(charge) time which results in a weaker spark with a conventional system - the msd gives a stronger spark within the same dwell time. (As i understand it anyway. Never used one - I used waste spark ford EDIS system)
At higher RPMs, with the high cylinder count you dont get much dwell(charge) time which results in a weaker spark with a conventional system - the msd gives a stronger spark within the same dwell time. (As i understand it anyway. Never used one - I used waste spark ford EDIS system)
an MSD DIS-4 could be configured to fire 4, or 8, and possibly 12 plugs from 4 inputs.
If using single coils, wire them in series, and they will all fire together. I know for sure, 1 MSD output, can fire 2 coils. So no reason why it cant fire 3 coils ( obviously all at the same time )
Power may be reduced slightly...but again, do you need more spark output ?
But do you need the power of an MSD ?
Some modern coils like an LS1 coil are very powerful, and can be bought at sensible prices via ebay. These have built in ignitors.
Or Im using some cheapy conventional Bosch transformer coils from Aussieland, which seem to be working well.
If you insist on using an external CDI amp like the MSD...count how many unique spark events you need, and then you can determine how many channels you actually need.
If using single coils, wire them in series, and they will all fire together. I know for sure, 1 MSD output, can fire 2 coils. So no reason why it cant fire 3 coils ( obviously all at the same time )
Power may be reduced slightly...but again, do you need more spark output ?
But do you need the power of an MSD ?
Some modern coils like an LS1 coil are very powerful, and can be bought at sensible prices via ebay. These have built in ignitors.
Or Im using some cheapy conventional Bosch transformer coils from Aussieland, which seem to be working well.
If you insist on using an external CDI amp like the MSD...count how many unique spark events you need, and then you can determine how many channels you actually need.
Thanks for the information, as I suspected the MSD is a ignition amplifier then. I run 2 coils, originally, I was planning on using a standard Jaguar ignition for the Exhaust side plugs, and an MSD6AL for the inlet plugs, but with the dollar being as weak as it is, I thought I might go with two.
Stevieturo - I really think that the extra power supplied by the MSD will be required as we are working toward using Methanol as a fuel and fitting twin turbochargers, which I think may overwhelm even a powerful coilpack.
Deetes - The Engine is a Meteor, built by Rover under licence from Rolls Royce. It is very closely related to the Merlin, infact it's almost Identical but the Meteor was built to be fitted to the Centurion Tank and as such it has none of the fancy lightweight parts, or the supercharger which were fitted to the Merlin.
Check out my web site http://www.bountyhunterpullingteam.co.uk/ I'm affraid it hasn't been updated for a while and things have moved on considerably.
Stevieturo - I really think that the extra power supplied by the MSD will be required as we are working toward using Methanol as a fuel and fitting twin turbochargers, which I think may overwhelm even a powerful coilpack.
Deetes - The Engine is a Meteor, built by Rover under licence from Rolls Royce. It is very closely related to the Merlin, infact it's almost Identical but the Meteor was built to be fitted to the Centurion Tank and as such it has none of the fancy lightweight parts, or the supercharger which were fitted to the Merlin.
Check out my web site http://www.bountyhunterpullingteam.co.uk/ I'm affraid it hasn't been updated for a while and things have moved on considerably.
Worth knowing that megasquirt guru phil ringwood done a waste spark setup on one of those engines, oddly enough I believe that was a tractor puller also.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ms1_products.htm#wasted1...
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/ms1_products.htm#wasted1...
stevieturbo said:
So in reality, you only need 2 channels ?
An MSD DIS-2 would suffice, along with 2 decent coils.
I assume there is a dizzy somewhere ?
Or if you only need 1 channel...well, buy a single channel amp, or fit a DIS-2 and only use one channel.
or I have a Crane Hi-6 amp here and PS92 coil.
Sorry but you've lost me. What do you mean by "Channels"? An MSD DIS-2 would suffice, along with 2 decent coils.
I assume there is a dizzy somewhere ?
Or if you only need 1 channel...well, buy a single channel amp, or fit a DIS-2 and only use one channel.
or I have a Crane Hi-6 amp here and PS92 coil.
The engine has 2 distribtors, both Jag V12's one runs the inlet side plugs the other runs the exhaust side plugs.
Well, if you only have 1 ignition coil, then you would only require 1 channel.
A lot of MSD units are capable of only powering 1 coil, so obviously they are only single channel units.
MSD DIS-2, and DIS-4, are capable of powering 2, and 4 coils respectively, when wired as per instructions.
Hence 2 channel, and 4 channel units
So in your case, having only 2 coils. You could either run 2 complete seperate MSD amps and coils.
Or one MSD DIS-2 and 2 coils.
A lot of MSD units are capable of only powering 1 coil, so obviously they are only single channel units.
MSD DIS-2, and DIS-4, are capable of powering 2, and 4 coils respectively, when wired as per instructions.
Hence 2 channel, and 4 channel units
So in your case, having only 2 coils. You could either run 2 complete seperate MSD amps and coils.
Or one MSD DIS-2 and 2 coils.
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