running in engine
Discussion
My car has just been dropped off to get forged pistons rods valves etc etc done before the start of next seasons racing.
But I have been using the net to find out running in proceedures and no 2 are the same.
Some say start up make sure everything is ok then give it death others say run in no more than 3k revs for 500-1000 mile ?????
The engine in question is a turbo charged 4 pot with the cylinders getting re-bored for over sized pistons.
What do you think / recommend
But I have been using the net to find out running in proceedures and no 2 are the same.
Some say start up make sure everything is ok then give it death others say run in no more than 3k revs for 500-1000 mile ?????
The engine in question is a turbo charged 4 pot with the cylinders getting re-bored for over sized pistons.
What do you think / recommend
I had my 3 pot turbo daihatsu lump rebuilt early last year.
I drove it for 200 miles under 3k no boost, changed oil. A further 300 miles under 4k no more than 5psi boost, changed oil. A futher 500 miles incrementally increasing revs and boost upto redline of 8000 and 14psi. Final oil change then gave it death.
16,000 miles on engine is great and has perfect compression, 9.5bar +/-3% across all three cylinders which is well within factory spec.
Now running 22psi and 8500 redline and it laps it up, oil and spark changes every 3k.
I drove it for 200 miles under 3k no boost, changed oil. A further 300 miles under 4k no more than 5psi boost, changed oil. A futher 500 miles incrementally increasing revs and boost upto redline of 8000 and 14psi. Final oil change then gave it death.
16,000 miles on engine is great and has perfect compression, 9.5bar +/-3% across all three cylinders which is well within factory spec.
Now running 22psi and 8500 redline and it laps it up, oil and spark changes every 3k.
Edited by Marf on Saturday 17th November 17:33
This is how I did my Peugeot, how i'll do my twin turbo V8 and how i've done pretty much every engine i've built from scratch.
Run as normal for about 50 miles, not loading the engine very much or letting it labour, keep the revs to about 3/4 of the max and then change the oil, siving the oil through a clean white sheet to check for metal particles.
Then refill oil, change filter and use it as you would if it had 20,000 miles on.
Running an engine in for an age wont do a thing, if you keep on needing to change the oil then either it wasn't cleaned very well on the build or it is already chewing itself to bits.
Obviously after these 50 miles keep an eye on oil pressures, temps etc and watch for any trends.
Dave!
Run as normal for about 50 miles, not loading the engine very much or letting it labour, keep the revs to about 3/4 of the max and then change the oil, siving the oil through a clean white sheet to check for metal particles.
Then refill oil, change filter and use it as you would if it had 20,000 miles on.
Running an engine in for an age wont do a thing, if you keep on needing to change the oil then either it wasn't cleaned very well on the build or it is already chewing itself to bits.
Obviously after these 50 miles keep an eye on oil pressures, temps etc and watch for any trends.
Dave!
Howitzer said:
Running an engine in for an age wont do a thing, if you keep on needing to change the oil then either it wasn't cleaned very well on the build or it is already chewing itself to bits.
Yeah I have to say there wasn't any swarf to speak of in any of the changes, I was just going on what was recomended to me by various sources. I was too paranoid to treat it like a run in engine after 50 miles, I didnt want over a grand of my money going down the pan after 200 miles 
I guess that had more to do with the cost of the rebuild being nearly 3/4's of a months salary at the time
I rarely have the patience for that crap lol.
Ive seen me running 2 bar on engines within 100 miles. Not so much by choice, but by deadlines.
I was told be one engine builder, that if the bores have been honed properly, the rings will be bedded in within about 20-30 minutes run-time.
when I do have the time, Id try and take it easy for about 500 miles. Dont think Ive given an engine longer in the past 5-6 years.
Ive seen me running 2 bar on engines within 100 miles. Not so much by choice, but by deadlines.
I was told be one engine builder, that if the bores have been honed properly, the rings will be bedded in within about 20-30 minutes run-time.
when I do have the time, Id try and take it easy for about 500 miles. Dont think Ive given an engine longer in the past 5-6 years.
I agree running in should be more or less done after 500 miles, use crap oil as well not your costly synthetic. treat is gently for the 1st 100 miles then start using about 1/2 throttle after 250 miles 2/3rds throttle & 2/3rds the revs.
at 500 miles change the oil to something semi-decent ie. Castrol gtx and open it up after 2K miles put the good oil in
Matt
at 500 miles change the oil to something semi-decent ie. Castrol gtx and open it up after 2K miles put the good oil in
Matt
My car is road legal but I rarely use it on the road and with the Kirkey alloy seat it is not the comfiest.
I will try to get a few road miles on the car using hadrdly any boost before the start on next season racing and get it mapped on oil changed just before my first run up the strip.
I will try to get a few road miles on the car using hadrdly any boost before the start on next season racing and get it mapped on oil changed just before my first run up the strip.
I would use around 75% of max rpm and no more than 1/2 throttle for the first 1500 miles. Use minimal boost.
You NEED to use good oil if you are runing a turbocharged engine, my recommendation would be to use a magnetic sump plug and a semi-synthetic oil with a good additive pack in it.
Change the oil at 500 miles and then every 3000 miles, it should then last pretty much forever.
You NEED to use good oil if you are runing a turbocharged engine, my recommendation would be to use a magnetic sump plug and a semi-synthetic oil with a good additive pack in it.
Change the oil at 500 miles and then every 3000 miles, it should then last pretty much forever.
The main issue with running a new engine in is making sure you dont wipe out flat tappet cams. If you havnt changed the cam and kept the followers matched then most of the potential issues are gone in terms of doing damage.
It's then all down to making the rings seal and avoiding glazing the bores, so you need to use a running in oil for the first stage of running. Even with a turbo engine mineral oil is what you want as you wont be generating any heat in the turbo core worth talking about whilst you go through this stage.
With a turbo engine i just run the engine at wastegate presure, so about 0.6BAR, that will give you similar load charicteristics to a normally aspirated engine, running it at no boost doesnt load up the piston because of the low compresion ratio in a turbo engine.
I then drive it normally upto 2/3 of its rev range, the main thing to avoid is labouring the engine, use more revs rather than have it pulling at low rpm, also do plenty of downhill overrun driving, so you generate a large amount of vacumn in the cyclinder, that way the rings get loaded up in the oposite direction to under load, helping bed them in.
If you have a boost gauge you should see the amount of vacumn on overrun increasing over the first 200 miles or so, as the ring seal gets better.
I gave my last engine 800 miles before changing the oil to fully synth and then loading it fully with 1.7BAR, but 500 miles should be more than enough.
As stevie says though, with race engines you can pretty much nail them from the off if you have to, just make sure you follow the cam bed in procedure if you have a new flat tappet cam in there, or you can wipe a lobe off.
It's then all down to making the rings seal and avoiding glazing the bores, so you need to use a running in oil for the first stage of running. Even with a turbo engine mineral oil is what you want as you wont be generating any heat in the turbo core worth talking about whilst you go through this stage.
With a turbo engine i just run the engine at wastegate presure, so about 0.6BAR, that will give you similar load charicteristics to a normally aspirated engine, running it at no boost doesnt load up the piston because of the low compresion ratio in a turbo engine.
I then drive it normally upto 2/3 of its rev range, the main thing to avoid is labouring the engine, use more revs rather than have it pulling at low rpm, also do plenty of downhill overrun driving, so you generate a large amount of vacumn in the cyclinder, that way the rings get loaded up in the oposite direction to under load, helping bed them in.
If you have a boost gauge you should see the amount of vacumn on overrun increasing over the first 200 miles or so, as the ring seal gets better.
I gave my last engine 800 miles before changing the oil to fully synth and then loading it fully with 1.7BAR, but 500 miles should be more than enough.
As stevie says though, with race engines you can pretty much nail them from the off if you have to, just make sure you follow the cam bed in procedure if you have a new flat tappet cam in there, or you can wipe a lobe off.
Don't know the make of your engine but give it a generous burst of the throttle when it fires up to initially bed the rings in. Hopefully the engine won't come back to you from the builder with heavily oiled bores. After the initial start don't nurse it, use it but I wouldn't apply boost for the first 50 miles in case it passes the rings and you get bore wash. You need the rings to bed in and using a variety of revs and making the engine work will do this.
it is essential to bed the rings in well
use a cheap non synthetic oil and give it lots of beans ,plenty revs, for about 1,000 miles
change the oil for full synth and job done
run it in gently and you will never bed the rings in ,get full compression and you will probably end up with blow by as well
Did this to mine and 70 k later still uses no oil
use a cheap non synthetic oil and give it lots of beans ,plenty revs, for about 1,000 miles
change the oil for full synth and job done
run it in gently and you will never bed the rings in ,get full compression and you will probably end up with blow by as well
Did this to mine and 70 k later still uses no oil
Sorry some more questions.
Hopefully get the car back in the next week or so then I will start running it in.
On the old engine I was using 1.5 bar of boost and had recently had it mapped and was running fine.
With the new forged bits in I want to run 1.7/8 bar of boost. So will this need a new remap or will the ecu know that im running more boost so alter fueling etc automatically.
Thanks
Hopefully get the car back in the next week or so then I will start running it in.
On the old engine I was using 1.5 bar of boost and had recently had it mapped and was running fine.
With the new forged bits in I want to run 1.7/8 bar of boost. So will this need a new remap or will the ecu know that im running more boost so alter fueling etc automatically.
Thanks
marT350T said:
With the new forged bits in I want to run 1.7/8 bar of boost. So will this need a new remap or will the ecu know that im running more boost so alter fueling etc automatically.
Thanks
I would say yes a remap would be wise.Thanks
If the old map was set for 1.5 bar its likely that a) there will be some form of boost cut above that point, and b) the fuelling/ignition tables for above 1.5 bar will not have been setup for normal use, i.e. the fuel may go very rich and the timing retarded to be sure that things are kept safe in an overboost situation.
What car/engine/ecu is it btw?
Edited by Marf on Wednesday 2nd January 12:30
Marf said:
marT350T said:
With the new forged bits in I want to run 1.7/8 bar of boost. So will this need a new remap or will the ecu know that im running more boost so alter fueling etc automatically.
Thanks
I would say yes a remap would be wise.Thanks
If the old map was set for 1.5 bar its likely that a) there will be some form of boost cut above that point, and b) the fuelling/ignition tables for above 1.5 bar will not have been setup for normal use, i.e. the fuel may go very rich and the timing retarded to be sure that things are kept safe in an overboost situation.
What car/engine/ecu is it btw?
Edited by Marf on Wednesday 2nd January 12:30
Will my ecu just have a map for 1.5 bar or will it see the boost is a little higher and adjust ?
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