Engine Management Solutions
Discussion
It needs a laptop plugged into it, or a Palm handheld thing. Ive written some software for the Palm to adjust all the ignition settings and someone else has done it for the Fuel side, isn't as good as a laptop, but conveneint as you can leave these in the glovebox or whatever as they are around £30 off ebay, where as a laptop can cost quite a bit more and wouldnt be safe slung in the boot. Dont think any other system would offer this, let alone the rest of it at the price.
Glad you like it, anyhow,
a very biased Phil
Glad you like it, anyhow,
a very biased Phil
What do you have against the Emerald system then? Its perfectably capable of running engines other than a K series and is very reasonably priced. The MBE is a fine system but as others have mentioned not the most user friendly. Just curious really as I'm running the latest Emerald unit on my RV8 (now sequential injection and dizzyless) and very pleased with it. It also features a very effective boost control (unlike some) and a logger and uses a MAP sensor if required, with all the offsets for air / coolant temp etc.
Interested to hear your comments.
Matt
Interested to hear your comments.
Matt
350matt said:
What do you have against the Emerald system then? Its perfectably capable of running engines other than a K series and is very reasonably priced. The MBE is a fine system but as others have mentioned not the most user friendly. Just curious really as I'm running the latest Emerald unit on my RV8 (now sequential injection and dizzyless) and very pleased with it. It also features a very effective boost control (unlike some) and a logger and uses a MAP sensor if required, with all the offsets for air / coolant temp etc.
Interested to hear your comments.
Matt
Used emerald in the past (twas a few years ago so maybe I should look again) and whilst their fine for N/A, which is what we used it on, it didn't offer the level of sophistication that I need. It also seemed to be very targeted at replacing Rover MEMS, immobiliser support etc. was a hyped feature.
Matt
I had considered the Emerald too. It offered very few features though, and I didnt think it would run an 8 cyl twin turbo the way I wanted.
One of the main features I wanted was closed loop lambda control ( user switchable on and off via a switch ). The DTA offers this, and you can choose what input you use. Whether it be the normal narrowband, or an external wideband to actually control the fuelling, ( within certain user defined parameters )
It makes initial mapping so much faster.
It also offers traction control, and launch control, and anti lag should you so desire. And it can drive up to 8 indiviual coils in a sequential setup, or more with double ended type coils.
Its datalogging, while not brilliant, is functional.
The Emerald offered pretty much nothing as far as I was concerned, although it would work fine for a budget build.
One of the main features I wanted was closed loop lambda control ( user switchable on and off via a switch ). The DTA offers this, and you can choose what input you use. Whether it be the normal narrowband, or an external wideband to actually control the fuelling, ( within certain user defined parameters )
It makes initial mapping so much faster.
It also offers traction control, and launch control, and anti lag should you so desire. And it can drive up to 8 indiviual coils in a sequential setup, or more with double ended type coils.
Its datalogging, while not brilliant, is functional.
The Emerald offered pretty much nothing as far as I was concerned, although it would work fine for a budget build.
The current emerald system costs £550 + VAT but mine was a special which they're probably going to charge around £650+ VAT. Definitly worth a look they've also got traction / launch control waiting in the wings / under development.
Also it doesn't require a specialist palmtop / controller, any old laptop will do.
Matt
Also it doesn't require a specialist palmtop / controller, any old laptop will do.
Matt
Matt,
sorry I might not have explained it very well, but the MS also just needs any old laptop, but you can use a Palm to do tuning, etc, as well incase you dont want to carry a laptop with you. Just gives an extra facility for easy adjustments whilst out and about without having to worry about having a laptop knicked.
Just incase your interested, MS is also doing Launch, traction, autochanging of gears, dual table, Edis, etc, etc,
Phil
sorry I might not have explained it very well, but the MS also just needs any old laptop, but you can use a Palm to do tuning, etc, as well incase you dont want to carry a laptop with you. Just gives an extra facility for easy adjustments whilst out and about without having to worry about having a laptop knicked.
Just incase your interested, MS is also doing Launch, traction, autochanging of gears, dual table, Edis, etc, etc,
Phil
DTA P8Pro was £850+vat when I bought it. That was about 18 months ago, but I think the price is still the same.
www.dtafast.co.uk
Another thing to watch out for, and Im not sure about the DTA either here.
Check what type of injectors the system can drive. Some are only suitable for high impedance, or low impedance injetctors.
Some may require ballast resisitors if using the lowe imp variety.
Also be aware that the low imp variety are a lot more expensive usuall that the high imp.
I know for sure the DTA can run 8 high imp injectors, as this is what I am using, in a batch fire system.
www.dtafast.co.uk
Another thing to watch out for, and Im not sure about the DTA either here.
Check what type of injectors the system can drive. Some are only suitable for high impedance, or low impedance injetctors.
Some may require ballast resisitors if using the lowe imp variety.
Also be aware that the low imp variety are a lot more expensive usuall that the high imp.
I know for sure the DTA can run 8 high imp injectors, as this is what I am using, in a batch fire system.
daxtojeiro said:
Andy,
I would recommend MS, but the only trouble you may have is idle control and or ignition control. Also some BMW's run fly by wire, etc, that isnt covered by MS, but I think ultra MS is, im not certain, but as far as I know it isnt available quite yet. Depends on how much control your original ECU has, but I have heard of someone doing a V12 BMW, may be worth asking on the yahoo site before getting too involved,
Phil
All 8's ran fly by wire throttle systems, certainly all the V12's Shouldn't be too difficult to make it look like a thottle cable though if you wanted to.
It was only a pulsed 12V signal, nothing too fancy.
stevieturbo said:
DTA P8Pro was £850+vat when I bought it. That was about 18 months ago, but I think the price is still the same.
www.dtafast.co.uk
Another thing to watch out for, and Im not sure about the DTA either here.
Check what type of injectors the system can drive. Some are only suitable for high impedance, or low impedance injetctors.
Some may require ballast resisitors if using the lowe imp variety.
Also be aware that the low imp variety are a lot more expensive usuall that the high imp.
I know for sure the DTA can run 8 high imp injectors, as this is what I am using, in a batch fire system.
There's also the loom plug at about £28 and in some respects it may be worth ordering a suitable loom if they do one for your application. I'm very impressed with the software and ecu and thus far think I will be using this unit. They can also sell you a hand held adjuster for quick adjustments on the dyno. It's not fancy but works.
True, you will need to buy a few additional parts on top of the ecu. Sensors if the originals dont suit. making a wiring loom. Any plugs associated with the new loom.
As far as I know, DTA do not supply any pre-made wiring looms, but then very few will do, if any.
Some may claim they supply a wiring harness, but you may find it is just a huge bunch of wires with a multiplug on the end. You still have to virtually make it from scratch anyway.
www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/homepage/home.html#gen257
As far as I know, DTA do not supply any pre-made wiring looms, but then very few will do, if any.
Some may claim they supply a wiring harness, but you may find it is just a huge bunch of wires with a multiplug on the end. You still have to virtually make it from scratch anyway.
www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/homepage/home.html#gen257
Was just thinking....
That BMW V12 you talk about. I would seriously speak to different ecu suppliers about that, and what you intend to do.
If you intend to re-use the original 'dizzys' and 2 x coils.
Technically the bmw V12, is seen as 2 x 6 cylinder engines. From the Factory, it has 2 ecus, 2 dizzys, and 2 coils.
There is also an inductive pickup attached to a lead, on each bank of cylinders.
Im sure it can be converted to a normal V12 with a new acu, but this may be more work that you originally intended.
Check it out anyway.
That BMW V12 you talk about. I would seriously speak to different ecu suppliers about that, and what you intend to do.
If you intend to re-use the original 'dizzys' and 2 x coils.
Technically the bmw V12, is seen as 2 x 6 cylinder engines. From the Factory, it has 2 ecus, 2 dizzys, and 2 coils.
There is also an inductive pickup attached to a lead, on each bank of cylinders.
Im sure it can be converted to a normal V12 with a new acu, but this may be more work that you originally intended.
Check it out anyway.
Steve
I will not be using any of the BMW stuff all the electronics will be new.
It will either run a coil per cylinder or dedicated ECU modules either way the BMW dizzys will not be used.
Probably wont even be using the BMW throttle bodies and may convert to cossie or something, not yet done enough investigation to know for sure.
The original BMW stuff seems such a miss mash to me, 3ecus run the V12 as though it was two engines.... must be a nightmare to set up.
But your right getting the correct ECU will be the secret to getting the most out of this engine.
Andy
I will not be using any of the BMW stuff all the electronics will be new.
It will either run a coil per cylinder or dedicated ECU modules either way the BMW dizzys will not be used.
Probably wont even be using the BMW throttle bodies and may convert to cossie or something, not yet done enough investigation to know for sure.
The original BMW stuff seems such a miss mash to me, 3ecus run the V12 as though it was two engines.... must be a nightmare to set up.
But your right getting the correct ECU will be the secret to getting the most out of this engine.
Andy
I think I recall, that when the 850 etc came out they made a big deal about the engine. Even if there was a problem on one bank, it could get you home on the remaining 6 cyl.
Say in an overheat situation, it could shut down one bank, run off 6cyl for a while, then swap over as the other cools down a bit.
Why they bothered is anyones guess.
Say in an overheat situation, it could shut down one bank, run off 6cyl for a while, then swap over as the other cools down a bit.
Why they bothered is anyones guess.
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff