Engine Management Solutions

[John_S4x4]

Just out of interest Andy, do you know what spark plugs you will need for the turbo'd V12 and will they fit ? Would you have to have the sparkplug holes remachined to suit, say cossie plugs ?

BTW, looking around the web, I saw that the DINAN twin turbo BMW V12 have 666 bhp Torque 607 lb/ft or 976nm
I also found these links for you

www.activeautowerke.com/turbo/default.asp

www.da-motorsport.com/default_en.asp - 900BHP M3


Regards John S

>> Edited by John_S4x4 on Thursday 22 April 05:58

[stevieturbo]

Spark Plugs ??? Why, does the V12 take some weird kind of spark plug ??

I'd have thought it was just a normal type plug, same as pretty much every vehicle on the road.

[Boosted LS1]

Stevie, I'll mail you a pic of the newer ls1 plugs. They are bosch items, two earth electrodes and platinum everywhere. I haven't seen them before and bosch say if you can't feel the difference they will buy them back. I don't know if they are available here in the UK. Earlier ls1's used discovery platinum plugs oe vice versa.

[julian64]

andycanam said:

Steve I will not be using any of the BMW stuff all the electronics will be new. It will either run a coil per cylinder or dedicated ECU modules either way the BMW dizzys will not be used. Probably wont even be using the BMW throttle bodies and may convert to cossie or something, not yet done enough investigation to know for sure. The original BMW stuff seems such a miss mash to me, 3ecus run the V12 as though it was two engines.... must be a nightmare to set up. But your right getting the correct ECU will be the secret to getting the most out of this engine. Andy

Only two ecu's

[julian64]

stevieturbo said:

I think I recall, that when the 850 etc came out they made a big deal about the engine. Even if there was a problem on one bank, it could get you home on the remaining 6 cyl. Say in an overheat situation, it could shut down one bank, run off 6cyl for a while, then swap over as the other cools down a bit. Why they bothered is anyones guess.

Yep a get you home on one side. Doesn't work well though for two reasons.

Its pulling round the compression on the other side so for a six cylinder engine its only just capable of maintaining its speed at 60 mph, and pulling away from stop is nigh on impossible.

Number two is that although it switches off the fuel injectors on the side it considers damaged, you still have the problem of the dead side acting like an giant reverse oil pump, and you will run very low on oil pretty dam quickly.

I know of no facility on this engine for alternating banks for cooling purposes.

[andycanam]

I thought it was one ecu for fuelling on each bank and a third for the ignition.
Oh well two ecu must still be a pain to set up in unison.

Still undecided on the ecu I will use..... every time I look at Motec again I seem to find another thing that puts the cost up £500

Andy

[Boosted LS1]

Andy, if you want something akin to the Motec then it has to be the DTA. I know a lot of other people who searched really hard and ended up with the it.

[stevieturbo]

Some places, and in no particular order.


www.dtafast.co.uk/
www.emeraldm3d.com/
www.wolfems.com.au/home
www.fuelairspark.com/
www.gems.co.uk/
www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html
www.lumenition.com/
www.motec.com.au/
www.pectel.co.uk/
www.kempower.be/LECU/universal_engine_management_syst.htm
www.mbesystems.com/
www.webcon.co.uk/

Check out some Australian sites. I dont have web addresses off hand, but look for Autronic, Haltech, Micro-Tech.

I think there are others.

[Boosted LS1]

And I bet you will still come back to the DTA as a the most viable option for the money Oh, Stevie missed out FJOFAST!

[HarryW]

I'll add OMEX to that list based on the GEMS systems but more affordable, apparently.

Harry

[stevieturbo]

There are definately others, I just cant find the links I had.

[psimpson7]

andycanam said:

I thought it was one ecu for fuelling on each bank and a third for the ignition. Oh well two ecu must still be a pain to set up in unison. Still undecided on the ecu I will use..... every time I look at Motec again I seem to find another thing that puts the cost up £500 Andy

Andy I run a Motec M4 pro with some of the options on my Delta and a DTA on my Caterham. I have never played with the DTA but quite often mess about in the Motec one. It seems very good, once you get round all its little foibles... like the fact that injector firing 1,2,3,4 actually means 1st to fire, 2nd to fire, 3rd to fire, 4th to fire, so 1=1, 2=3, 3=4 and 4=2!

I would say that they dont seem very well set up to cope wih helping the 'mere mortal' ie us though, more the Lemans teams.

If you are serious about getting a motec, email me what you want and I may be able to get you a decent price

Pete.

[apguy]

I'd continue the vote for DTA.

In the Kumho BMW championship my straight six 3.8 litre BMW E34 M5 was running DTA Pro8. I looked at Emerald and other lower end management systems but none of them offered the ability to control 6 coils, with sequential injection and a twin cam trigger input. All-in I paid £1700 for the ECU, wiring and rolling rd sessions.

I'm now running an RS1600i also with DTA, but just on the ignition side. I'm not allowed throttle position sensor so this runs with a MAP sensor on the inlet manifold quite happily.

[andycanam]

That wouldn't be my old RS1600i would it?

Basically I'm looking for the ECU that will give me the best power from ME mapping it. Autronic is very high on the list as I think the top Motec system is out of my reach and would need serious money to get all the features "unlocked".

I also used MAD on my cossie so have good experience with the UK Autronics distributer.... he is also doing a BMW V12 very soon so will already have a basic map.

Will definatlly be checking out the others though so thanks for all the links.

Andy

[apguy]

Andy,

>That wouldn't be my old RS1600i would it?

Well a few bits of it

I bought 3 Escorts in the end. A 1 owner 1.1 Pop+ for the shell, an ex-Hot Hatch for the competition bits and yours from which I used the spoilers, wheels, front ARB and crossmember, door cards, fuel pump and a few other bits. You're welcome to come across and have a look at the end result.

Regards

[andycanam]

May well take you up on that offer as I only sat on the RS for so long because I couldn't bring myself to scrap it.
Be good to see it as it should be ... even if its not all the original car.

[andycanam]

Decided on the MOTEC as it can run 12 injectors sequentially and can also run a coil per cylinder. They also have already done twin turbo V12's so already have a base map to start from

Think the bank manager will be less than convinced I made the right decision though.
Thanks for all the advice

[annodomini2]

you could always cheat and get a flat plane crank!

[Fatboy]

matt_t16 said:

Boosted LS1 said: To get you home mate just like the Northstar engine. I think it can run virtually without oil for a good few miles. Amazing stuff but just for the yanks! We maintain our engines. IIRC 100,000 mile service intervals as well.

100,000 mile major services - needs the oil changed evry 3,000 miles though - don't know why, but out here in north America they seem to all insist on oil changes every 3 months. Maybe they just use shitty mineral oil over here?

[BogBeast]

andycanam said:

Decided on the MOTEC as it can run 12 injectors sequentially and can also run a coil per cylinder. They also have already done twin turbo V12's so already have a base map to start from Think the bank manager will be less than convinced I made the right decision though. Thanks for all the advice

Are you going to install/setup yourself ??