Engine Management Solutions
Discussion
BogBeast said:
Decided on the MOTEC as it can run 12 injectors sequentially and can also run a coil per cylinder. They also have already done twin turbo V12's so already have a base map to start from
Think the bank manager will be less than convinced I made the right decision though.
Thanks for all the advice
Are you going to install/setup yourself ??
Yep
andycanam said:
andycanam said:
Decided on the MOTEC as it can run 12 injectors sequentially and can also run a coil per cylinder. They also have already done twin turbo V12's so already have a base map to start from
Think the bank manager will be less than convinced I made the right decision though.
Thanks for all the advice
Are you going to install/setup yourself ??
Yep
good luck - I will be watching with great interest.. Motec on my list of things to do... Hi Andy,
just got some info on the Omex OMEM700 seems like it might do what you want - should certainly do what I want.
Anyone got thoughts on DTA vs OMEX (reliability, ease of programing etc.)
Any way copy of short spec sheet from OMEX - I am hoping for some more detailed info soon.
OMEX PROFESSIONAL ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM – OMEM700
The OMEM700 Engine Management System is an ultra high performance ECU system designed specifically for high end users who require the absolute best at an excellent price for their engines. With up to 6 ignition outputs and up to 12 fuel outputs the OMEM700 is suitable for up to 12 cylinder engines.
· Professional level Engine Management System
· Suitable for up to 12 cylinder engines
· Up to 12 cylinder distributorless (DIS) or 6 cylinder ‘coil on plug’ ignition with no external amplifiers
· Up to 12 cylinder ‘coil on plug’ ignition using external amplifiers
· Sequential fuel injection for up to 12 cylinder engines
· Inner and outer injectors mapped on both speed and load
· Programmable load and speed sites
· TPS, MAP or MAF can be used for main load sensing
· Wide range of crank trigger patterns are suitable (user programmable)
· Turbo wastegate control
· Turbo anti-lag system
· Inbuilt data logging
· Narrow and wide band lambda feedback support
· Twin lambda sensors
· Individual cylinder trims for both ignition timing and fuelling
· Stepper motor and push/pull idle controls in addition to scattered spark control
· Knock sensing capability
· Security protected calibrations
· Full throttle gearchange
· Intercooler water spray control
· Water injection control
· Nitrous ignition retard
· Cooling fan control
· Internal barometric compensation or 1 bar MAP sensor
· Uses the latest version of the superb MAP2000 Windows programming software
· Suitable for normally aspirated or boosted engines
· Inbuilt independent fuel and ignition rev limiters
· Tachometer, Shift Light and Fuel Pump outputs (and other programmable outputs)
· Variable cam control
· Magnetic or Hall Effect crank and cam sensors
· Automatic interpolation between mapped sites
· Sophisticated acceleration fuelling setup
· Various harness options from economical semi-assembled to full race quality bespoke looms
· Battery voltage compensation table for fuel injectors (not just a simple number)
· Automatic battery compensation for coil charge time
· Mappable coolant temperature compensation for engine warm-up
· Air & coolant temperature compensation for fuel injection pulse width
· Separate cold cranking and decay tables in addition to warm-up fuelling
· User settable ignition retard based on air temperature
· User settable ignition retard based on coolant temperature
· Separate start advance for cranking provides easy starting for high compression engines
· Deceleration fuel cutoff feature for road engines
· Maximum recommended engine speed 16,000 RPM
· High strength billet machined aluminium case for physical and electrical protection
· AND LOADS MORE
LOOMS
Three versions of wiring loom are available to suit all requirements. The semi-assembled loom is ideal for those who want to make a specific loom to fit their vehicle or those who wish to keep the cost low. Omex can supply all the connectors to complete the loom. The Clubman looms are excellent quality fully assembled harnesses suitable for road or competition, and the Race looms are the ultimate in Omex looms. In addition to our standard length looms we can offer bespoke loom construction for specific requirements.
ANCILIARY COMPONENTS
Omex stock a wide range of connectors and sensors in addition to other ancillary parts that may be required. Please see our current price list for details.
MAP2000 & DATA2000 SOFTWARE
The Omex Engine Management software (MAP2000), runs on most PCs under Microsoft Windows 95, 98, 2000, and XP and offers full graphical and tabular control of all maps. Preset menus make setting up the ECU quick and easy, whilst a library of startup maps make getting the engine started for the first time an easy process. DATA2000 is our new data analysis package that allows the inbuilt data logging functions to be used.
TECHNICAL BACKUP
We are proud to offer some of the best technical backup in the business. Because our applications engineers are involved all the time with mapping and setting up engines we have come across just about all the questions you will need answering. We can answer your questions by telephone, email or fax during working hours. Our new instruction manuals are very detailed and easy to read and we can send example maps for you to see how the features are used on particular engines. We can also map your engine on the dyno or rolling road as required.
just got some info on the Omex OMEM700 seems like it might do what you want - should certainly do what I want.
Anyone got thoughts on DTA vs OMEX (reliability, ease of programing etc.)
Any way copy of short spec sheet from OMEX - I am hoping for some more detailed info soon.
OMEX PROFESSIONAL ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM – OMEM700
The OMEM700 Engine Management System is an ultra high performance ECU system designed specifically for high end users who require the absolute best at an excellent price for their engines. With up to 6 ignition outputs and up to 12 fuel outputs the OMEM700 is suitable for up to 12 cylinder engines.
· Professional level Engine Management System
· Suitable for up to 12 cylinder engines
· Up to 12 cylinder distributorless (DIS) or 6 cylinder ‘coil on plug’ ignition with no external amplifiers
· Up to 12 cylinder ‘coil on plug’ ignition using external amplifiers
· Sequential fuel injection for up to 12 cylinder engines
· Inner and outer injectors mapped on both speed and load
· Programmable load and speed sites
· TPS, MAP or MAF can be used for main load sensing
· Wide range of crank trigger patterns are suitable (user programmable)
· Turbo wastegate control
· Turbo anti-lag system
· Inbuilt data logging
· Narrow and wide band lambda feedback support
· Twin lambda sensors
· Individual cylinder trims for both ignition timing and fuelling
· Stepper motor and push/pull idle controls in addition to scattered spark control
· Knock sensing capability
· Security protected calibrations
· Full throttle gearchange
· Intercooler water spray control
· Water injection control
· Nitrous ignition retard
· Cooling fan control
· Internal barometric compensation or 1 bar MAP sensor
· Uses the latest version of the superb MAP2000 Windows programming software
· Suitable for normally aspirated or boosted engines
· Inbuilt independent fuel and ignition rev limiters
· Tachometer, Shift Light and Fuel Pump outputs (and other programmable outputs)
· Variable cam control
· Magnetic or Hall Effect crank and cam sensors
· Automatic interpolation between mapped sites
· Sophisticated acceleration fuelling setup
· Various harness options from economical semi-assembled to full race quality bespoke looms
· Battery voltage compensation table for fuel injectors (not just a simple number)
· Automatic battery compensation for coil charge time
· Mappable coolant temperature compensation for engine warm-up
· Air & coolant temperature compensation for fuel injection pulse width
· Separate cold cranking and decay tables in addition to warm-up fuelling
· User settable ignition retard based on air temperature
· User settable ignition retard based on coolant temperature
· Separate start advance for cranking provides easy starting for high compression engines
· Deceleration fuel cutoff feature for road engines
· Maximum recommended engine speed 16,000 RPM
· High strength billet machined aluminium case for physical and electrical protection
· AND LOADS MORE
LOOMS
Three versions of wiring loom are available to suit all requirements. The semi-assembled loom is ideal for those who want to make a specific loom to fit their vehicle or those who wish to keep the cost low. Omex can supply all the connectors to complete the loom. The Clubman looms are excellent quality fully assembled harnesses suitable for road or competition, and the Race looms are the ultimate in Omex looms. In addition to our standard length looms we can offer bespoke loom construction for specific requirements.
ANCILIARY COMPONENTS
Omex stock a wide range of connectors and sensors in addition to other ancillary parts that may be required. Please see our current price list for details.
MAP2000 & DATA2000 SOFTWARE
The Omex Engine Management software (MAP2000), runs on most PCs under Microsoft Windows 95, 98, 2000, and XP and offers full graphical and tabular control of all maps. Preset menus make setting up the ECU quick and easy, whilst a library of startup maps make getting the engine started for the first time an easy process. DATA2000 is our new data analysis package that allows the inbuilt data logging functions to be used.
TECHNICAL BACKUP
We are proud to offer some of the best technical backup in the business. Because our applications engineers are involved all the time with mapping and setting up engines we have come across just about all the questions you will need answering. We can answer your questions by telephone, email or fax during working hours. Our new instruction manuals are very detailed and easy to read and we can send example maps for you to see how the features are used on particular engines. We can also map your engine on the dyno or rolling road as required.
kevin Secker said:
Talk to V8D about the Omex 700! Our engine is still on the dyno 2 MONTHS after it should have been ready due to problems with the ECU. Omex are sending an engineer to help next week but this is the last chance. If it f**ks up again I will look elsewhere.
Kevin
Sorry to hear that Kevin, must have a ride in it when its finally done.
[cheeky mode on]So the sticking with the 14CUX lucas fueling and using the simpler Omex 150 ignition only ECU was the thing to do
[cheeky mode shut down]
Harry
I went for Motec M800 in the end..... but it'll be a long time till the engine is up and running as I have all the internal bits for the engine to sort now.
Problem is the more I look into the bottom end, the more money I can see dissappering into it..... Its an all alloy block and I can't seem to find off the shelf aftermarket bits to fit it.
Don't really know why I bothered setting a budget for this engine.
Problem is the more I look into the bottom end, the more money I can see dissappering into it..... Its an all alloy block and I can't seem to find off the shelf aftermarket bits to fit it.
Don't really know why I bothered setting a budget for this engine.
Despite the internals being good for quite a lot of HP I'm not really sure if anyone knows how far it can go....
I really want to over spec the bottom end so I can explore the extra rev range and boost possibilites without worry that I will be the person to find the stock bits limit.
I really want to over spec the bottom end so I can explore the extra rev range and boost possibilites without worry that I will be the person to find the stock bits limit.
andygtt said:
Despite the internals being good for quite a lot of HP I'm not really sure if anyone knows how far it can go....
I really want to over spec the bottom end so I can explore the extra rev range and boost possibilites without worry that I will be the person to find the stock bits limit.
Surely, if you can lower the c/r a tad it will make a lot of power/torque within the stock rev range. So you won't have to rev it till it breaks to have good fun
As Mike says. Unless you intend using sill rpm's, lower the CR, and the rest will most likely hold together with no worries.
I ran my old Rover V8 TT with 15psi, and well over twice its n/a power output for a couple of years. It finally melted a piston, but that was my fault. The short motor was in perfect condition otherwise.
replacing the rotating parts on such an engine ( this is the BMW V12 we are talking about ??? ) would be a hideously expensive task, and I cant help feeling it would be a waste of money.
Just my opinion of course. How much stress do you think you will need to put on a 6.0 V12 to make a bit of power ?? Not much really.
I ran my old Rover V8 TT with 15psi, and well over twice its n/a power output for a couple of years. It finally melted a piston, but that was my fault. The short motor was in perfect condition otherwise.
replacing the rotating parts on such an engine ( this is the BMW V12 we are talking about ??? ) would be a hideously expensive task, and I cant help feeling it would be a waste of money.
Just my opinion of course. How much stress do you think you will need to put on a 6.0 V12 to make a bit of power ?? Not much really.
The stock engine revs to only 6000rpm which is way to low, but the CR is already only 8.8:1 and the rings can take up to 15psi, so lowering it wont give me more power.
10psi on a completely stock engine and rev range is 490bhp and 540ftlb (done by Dinan). I plan to flow the heads and have a cam kit that could go to 8000rpm (I've heard people claim stock internals can go to 8500rpm).
The good news is that with 12cylinders I don't really have to stress each item that much to get good power..... but I want 7500rpm AND good power and who knows were the limit is for both combined.
As this is going in a light mid engined car I don't want more torque than power but visa versa.... hence I need more revs. Also low revs wont suit my Porsche gearbox.
But this is only the tip of my problems.... the bores are all alloy, so to go aftermarket pistons I'd really have to sleeve the bores (1.5k ouch) to alloy for normal ring....
see my problem.
10psi on a completely stock engine and rev range is 490bhp and 540ftlb (done by Dinan). I plan to flow the heads and have a cam kit that could go to 8000rpm (I've heard people claim stock internals can go to 8500rpm).
The good news is that with 12cylinders I don't really have to stress each item that much to get good power..... but I want 7500rpm AND good power and who knows were the limit is for both combined.
As this is going in a light mid engined car I don't want more torque than power but visa versa.... hence I need more revs. Also low revs wont suit my Porsche gearbox.
But this is only the tip of my problems.... the bores are all alloy, so to go aftermarket pistons I'd really have to sleeve the bores (1.5k ouch) to alloy for normal ring....
see my problem.
I reckon all you have to do is wind up the boost and manage it properly. You will be amazed at how fast you will travel within the stockish rpm's. You will probably be quite safe at 7k for shortish periods such as a 12 second burst by which time you will be travelling at the speed of light anyway. You can always select another gear Revs can do a lot of damage.
Boosted.
Revs can do a lot of damage. Boosted.
Choosing such an engine on a budget, then wanting it to rev to 8000rpm....well, no offence, it wasnt really an ideal choice you made.
Alloy bores ??? do tell more ? whats that about ??
10psi on a stock engine yields 490bhp. Not bad, but Im sure with good turbo sizing, good manifolds, intercooling and management, that this could be increased.
With 15psi, you should really be looking at over 600bhp without too much difficulty, although again, within the stock rpm constraints. Extending this to the 7500+ you ask, will involve some fairly wild cams, which will be a bit nasty low down.
I think that if you want it to rev to 8k, then you are going to compromise the lower rpm range very badly. I assume this isnt a road car, and just a race car ??
If you want less torque, and more power, then map it that way. Map the boost vs rpm, and run richer, and retard ignition timing from optimium to limit torque.
Obviously you can only go so far with things like that, but if you use lower boost, increasing with rpm, it should be failry easy enough managed, although it may take some time to setup..
Alloy bores ??? do tell more ? whats that about ??
10psi on a stock engine yields 490bhp. Not bad, but Im sure with good turbo sizing, good manifolds, intercooling and management, that this could be increased.
With 15psi, you should really be looking at over 600bhp without too much difficulty, although again, within the stock rpm constraints. Extending this to the 7500+ you ask, will involve some fairly wild cams, which will be a bit nasty low down.
I think that if you want it to rev to 8k, then you are going to compromise the lower rpm range very badly. I assume this isnt a road car, and just a race car ??
If you want less torque, and more power, then map it that way. Map the boost vs rpm, and run richer, and retard ignition timing from optimium to limit torque.
Obviously you can only go so far with things like that, but if you use lower boost, increasing with rpm, it should be failry easy enough managed, although it may take some time to setup..
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