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ENGINE PROBLEMS........

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thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
Hello to all, new member here with a very very annoying engine problem.
Engine started playing up about 2 weeks after having a service, juddering, revs dropping and wanting to cut out, eventually it did cut out, started again after 10 mins or so but then cuts out again.
Fault code reader came back with codes P0201 P0202 P0203 and P0204 (injector circuit fault to cylinder 1 2 3 and 4).
Got advised to change the plugs and maybe the coil pack, i changed both but still the same.
Leaving work the other day and it wouldnt even start, was turning over but wouldnt start, called the rac out and he said its the crank sensor, got a new 1 and put it on, still the same, wont start.
Ran another code check and still has the same codes as before.
I've read loads of peoples thoughts and possibles on the web but it really is just guess work and i've already spent £230 without any results.
Does anybody have any thoughts/ideas on this at all, anything would much appreciated.
2003 (03 plate) Vauxhall Zafira GSi (2.0 turbo - Z20LET)

Edited by thegibo on Sunday 16th January 10:15

GavinPearson

5,707 posts

173 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
It's pretty clear that the garage doing the work doesn't have a clue on how P codes work, what to do with them, or methodical diagnosis and repair.

Take the car to a Vauxhall dealer and have them put their driveability specialist on it. He can follow Vauxhall's diagnosis sheets, show you where it passed the sub-tests and where it failed, and then make repairs as necessary. For example, it could be a wire chafing problem or a bad earth. There may even be a service bulletin he can follow if it is a common problem.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
I would quite happily do that if it would drive, the car is stuck about 100 yards from my house and wont start, its turning over but wont start.

paintman

3,959 posts

112 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
Looks like you have 3 choices
1. Keep swapping parts at random in the hope that you might cure it.
2. Leave it where it is.
3. Get it recovered to a specialist as already advised.



thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
Do you know what, i never thought of any of them, mmmmmmm.
Put the post on in the hope that someone might have an idea.
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stevieturbo

12,636 posts

169 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
thegibo said:
Do you know what, i never thought of any of them, mmmmmmm.
Put the post on in the hope that someone might have an idea.
We arent mind readers. You do realise how difficult it is to try and diagnose over the internet, let alone diagnose based on vague information, and a multitude of fault codes, which could have been created by the dummy working on the car.

Really....having the car recovered to a competent mechanic is the best option

Martin Keene

6,418 posts

147 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
I reckon it is a loose connection some where. The car was serviced recently, the fault started after the servcie and now all four injectors have packed up. The chances of all the injectors packing up together are so remote it is not worth considering.

Therefore we are looking for a common fault, this would have to be the fuel supply to the injectors or the wiring. As the car has just been serviced I am going to put my money on a harness connection being disturbed causing a loose connection.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
Stevie, I dont expect you to be mind readers, you say vague information...! Basically i've outlined everything that has happened and put down all the fault codes i'm getting back so what more can i put...?

Martin, thank you very much for your input, what you say does make sense so thats what i'm going to look into next, thanks again.

paintman

3,959 posts

112 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
I certainly wasn't trying to be funny.

You have tried swapping parts at random with no result other than a hole in your bank balance - this is a VERY common approach, often fails & usually turns out to be something entirely different that was at fault.

It was suggested the vehicle would best be taken to a make specialist to be put on their diagnostics. Non franchised garages usually have generic code readers but these often give meaningless fault codes. They aren't likely to have manufacturers latest bulletins either.

Your response to the last suggestion was that the vehicle was immobile 100 yards from your home & won't start. Other than having it recovered how else do you propose to get it to a specialist?

stevieturbo

12,636 posts

169 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
thegibo said:
Stevie, I dont expect you to be mind readers, you say vague information...! Basically i've outlined everything that has happened and put down all the fault codes i'm getting back so what more can i put...?

Martin, thank you very much for your input, what you say does make sense so thats what i'm going to look into next, thanks again.
There are a variety of codes relating to injectors. So the first thing anyone would do is test the ecu output going to the injectors. So was this done ? if not why not ?

You replaced the coils and plugs for some unknown reason ?

Then the crank sensor ? Blindly reading fault codes without carrying out some basic diagnostic tests will just cost you a fortune....but then you are discovering that.
So was the crank sensor tested with an oscilloscope ? I'd assume so otherwise it would be hard to say it is faulty.
So what was it's output like ?

Juddering and stopping while ok maybe isnt vague....but juddering could be a symptom of various issues. And stopping....well, whilst it is quite final, again could be from a multitude of reasons.

Whilst a one make or dealer is an option. I just see it as you needing to find a competent mechanic with a brain. And not one that simply plugs in a fault code reader which costs £20, and that's as far as he goes.
It's unlikely it will need a full dealer plug in....and in many cases their operatives are as useful as that £20 code reader.

The most important thing you need to find, is a mechanic with a brain, and some diagnostic tools. Not just one with some diagnostic tools.

So without more information on the test results I have mentioned, it's impossible to help further. But then if they had tested the devices as any normal person would do during diagnostic fault finding....maybe you'd be a lot further on anyway.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
The only thing thats holding me back with that is that i've read far too many posts about people putting there car into a Vauxhall dealers with what sounds like similar faults, only to be told the wrong diagnosis and still getting charged for the pleasure of it, looks like i might just have to bite the bullet and go with it though (with everything crossed).
Thanks for all your replies people, much appreciated.

Edited by thegibo on Sunday 16th January 21:38

paintman

3,959 posts

112 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:

The most important thing you need to find, is a mechanic with a brain, and some diagnostic tools. Not just one with some diagnostic tools.
Absolutely! There are some out there but they can be few & far betweenrolleyes

stevieturbo

12,636 posts

169 months

Sunday 16th January 2011
quotequote all
thegibo said:
The only thing thats holding me back with that is that i've read far too many posts about people putting there car into a Vauxhall dealers with what sounds like similar faults, only to be told the wrong diagnosis and still getting charged for the pleasure of it, looks like i might just have to bite the bullet and go with it though (with everything crossed).
Thanks for all your replies people, much appreciated.

Edited by thegibo on Sunday 16th January 21:38
I certainly dont recommend a main dealer for those very reasons. They will charge and charge and take no responsibility for wrong decisions and you will pay every time.

Take a look over on the Ilexa diagnostics forum, or BBA-reman forum.

You could probably ask advice as to a competent local garage who can look at it from those people.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Monday 17th January 2011
quotequote all
Ok Stevie thanks, you certainly do seem to know your stuff.
Thanks again.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
Ok then, finally got put in touch with a auto elec/mechanic yesterday, got the car towed to his place of work (1 mile away), 3 hours later its sorted, turned out to be a dodgy fuel pump/injector relay which had finally packed in, as to whether this had anything to do with the original juddering/cutting out problem i dont know because when i cleaned the breather pipes and put new vauxhall spark plugs in it was running fine, anyway it appears to be running ok now.
Big thanks to everyones replies, an expensive lesson learned i think.
Thanks.

Martin Keene

6,418 posts

147 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
Cool, cheap fix then.

stevieturbo

12,636 posts

169 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
thegibo said:
Ok then, finally got put in touch with a auto elec/mechanic yesterday, got the car towed to his place of work (1 mile away), 3 hours later its sorted, turned out to be a dodgy fuel pump/injector relay which had finally packed in, as to whether this had anything to do with the original juddering/cutting out problem i dont know because when i cleaned the breather pipes and put new vauxhall spark plugs in it was running fine, anyway it appears to be running ok now.
Big thanks to everyones replies, an expensive lesson learned i think.
Thanks.
If it isnt getting fuel...it isnt going to start. So likely it's been the problem all along.

thegibo

Original Poster:

10 posts

81 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
Can relays play up like that though, work 1 minute and not the next, i'd have thought that when they are ready to go then thats it, end of, never mind, problem solved.
Thanks again Stevie and Martin for your replies.

stevieturbo

12,636 posts

169 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
Almost any fault can be intermittent. Especially electrical ones !

Steve_D

11,172 posts

180 months

Tuesday 18th January 2011
quotequote all
thegibo said:
Can relays play up like that though, work 1 minute and not the next, i'd have thought that when they are ready to go then thats it, end of, never mind, problem solved.
Thanks again Stevie and Martin for your replies.
If the coil of a relay burns out then it just stops working.
If the current carrying contacts of the relay start to wear or burn then its operation can become intermittent before finally failing.

Steve