VW 1.4 TSI Oil Consumption
Discussion
There is no doubt many modern engines are far above anything of yesteryear.
That doesnt also mean that there arent some lemons in the modern world. Coast cutting, stringent emissions and need for more power do not all go hand in hand.
When they get it right they are usually very good. But they dont always get things right.
That doesnt also mean that there arent some lemons in the modern world. Coast cutting, stringent emissions and need for more power do not all go hand in hand.
When they get it right they are usually very good. But they dont always get things right.
Balmoral Green said:
If you're gonna come out with stuff like that, then neither does my SZ.
Toyota engine in your Bentley?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_SZ_engine
It could take as much as 20k miles for the consumption to settle - not sure how it is with the petrol lumps, but VW diesels tend to burn a lot of oil for 20k, then very little after that.
Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
Chicharito said:
It could take as much as 20k miles for the consumption to settle - not sure how it is with the petrol lumps, but VW diesels tend to burn a lot of oil for 20k, then very little after that.
Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
You are right!I remember that the old alfa romeo's needed 1 liters for 1kilometers.Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
Chicharito said:
It could take as much as 20k miles for the consumption to settle - not sure how it is with the petrol lumps, but VW diesels tend to burn a lot of oil for 20k, then very little after that.
Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
There is absolutely no excuse for a modern engine, and definitely not a brand new one from the factory using excessive amounts of oil.Don't ask me why, they just do.
It's also absolutely pointless comparing new with old engines - the TSI is pushing out 180bhp from 1.4 litres - that's a bit more than the 75-ish bhp you'd have been getting from a Ford 1.4 back in the 80s. Due to the power outputs and lower tolerances on modern engines, much thinner oils are being used - again, the old Ford lump would be on 10/40 mineral or semi-synth oil, whilst a modern engine could be on 0/30 or even thinner - so it does tend to leak past piston rings etc.
That is a problem no matter how you try and explain it.
stevieturbo said:
There is absolutely no excuse for a modern engine, and definitely not a brand new one from the factory using excessive amounts of oil.
That is a problem no matter how you try and explain it.
Perhaps you'd like to tell that to all the manufacturers who have quite high levels of 'expected' oil use.That is a problem no matter how you try and explain it.
A lot of it is to do with the incredibly thin oils specified these days.
(I had an old Alfa Boxer which used to burn silly amounts of oil when run on the 'correct' specification Selenia - but burned next to nothing when run on Castrol 10/40)
Chicharito said:
stevieturbo said:
There is absolutely no excuse for a modern engine, and definitely not a brand new one from the factory using excessive amounts of oil.
That is a problem no matter how you try and explain it.
Perhaps you'd like to tell that to all the manufacturers who have quite high levels of 'expected' oil use.That is a problem no matter how you try and explain it.
A lot of it is to do with the incredibly thin oils specified these days.
(I had an old Alfa Boxer which used to burn silly amounts of oil when run on the 'correct' specification Selenia - but burned next to nothing when run on Castrol 10/40)
The DT466 range of straight six engines (7.6 litres and 9.3 litres) that I'm involved in the design of acieve an oil consumption on the dyno of about 0.00022 lb/hp-hr even though their target is about 0.00045. The Maxxforce 7 V8 is about the same.
They have a B50 durability of 500,000 miles. Compare that to the new Ford 'Scorpion' Powerstroke 'disposable' engine
They have a B50 durability of 500,000 miles. Compare that to the new Ford 'Scorpion' Powerstroke 'disposable' engine
Marquis Rex said:
The DT466 range of straight six engines (7.6 litres and 9.3 litres) that I'm involved in the design of acieve an oil consumption on the dyno of about 0.00022 lb/hp-hr even though their target is about 0.00045. The Maxxforce 7 V8 is about the same.
They have a B50 durability of 500,000 miles. Compare that to the new Ford 'Scorpion' Powerstroke 'disposable' engine
The 7 V8 is the later version of the navistar 6.4 in the2008-11 superdutys right???They have a B50 durability of 500,000 miles. Compare that to the new Ford 'Scorpion' Powerstroke 'disposable' engine
is anyone going to use them in a pick up?? dodge are cummins and GM use Isuzu and ford in house scorpion?
powerstroke said:
The 7 V8 is the later version of the navistar 6.4 in the2008-11 superdutys right???
is anyone going to use them in a pick up?? dodge are cummins and GM use Isuzu and ford in house scorpion?
That's right, and the 6 litre issues are very overstated and can be solved quite easily. The last of the 6.4 are quite solid.is anyone going to use them in a pick up?? dodge are cummins and GM use Isuzu and ford in house scorpion?
The Scorpion is the in house name for the Ford engines which was done by Ford and AVL. Certainly the initial TGW (Things gone wrong) for the first batch of Scorpions is higher than the last of the outgoing International engines. Ford are so proud that they're are revealing so much information about this engine in their SAE publications although nearly everyone in the industry knows that the know how was AVL really.
There's no known intended pick up use as of yet for the International Maxxforce 7, although a 430 bhp Marine application isn't far away...
Chicharito said:
Perhaps you'd like to tell that to all the manufacturers who have quite high levels of 'expected' oil use.
A lot of it is to do with the incredibly thin oils specified these days.
(I had an old Alfa Boxer which used to burn silly amounts of oil when run on the 'correct' specification Selenia - but burned next to nothing when run on Castrol 10/40)
You think they need me to tell them they made a balls, and are trying to cover their ass for engine replacements under warranty by making such statements ? Catch a grip.A lot of it is to do with the incredibly thin oils specified these days.
(I had an old Alfa Boxer which used to burn silly amounts of oil when run on the 'correct' specification Selenia - but burned next to nothing when run on Castrol 10/40)
If they are having problems with their bore/ring/piston package causing high oil consumption, it is a problem that needs fixed regardless of what they claim to try and avoid massive warranty costs.
My van uses 0/30 oil. It currently has 155k on it. Ive done around 90k in the last year. And it uses almost no oil between changes, and even those get dragged out to 15-20k simply because I rarely get a chance to change the oil !
And you think it's acceptable for other engines to use a few litres over that same distance because they use thin oils ? Nope, it isnt acceptable one bit.
Balmoral Green said:
My oil consumption was quite high initially, then it levelled off a little, but it still uses way too much IMO. I have to top it up about 500-750ml every three tanks of fuel.
...It's all a bit s
t and I'm very disappointed.
...It's all a bit s
t and I'm very disappointed.stevieturbo said:
There is no doubt many modern engines are far above anything of yesteryear.
That doesnt also mean that there arent some lemons in the modern world.
With the VW engine under discussion, it seems that there can be individual lemons, rather than the deisgn being a lemon overall.That doesnt also mean that there arent some lemons in the modern world.
BG bought his Fabia around the same time as mine, and had much higher oil consumption right from the start. Mine needed topping up with a litre of oil, half way to its first service, which whilst I found it disappointing, was still much better than BG's. I'm now approaching 30K miles, and oil use is negligible; it certainly doesn't need topping up between services any more.
Sounds like the OP has just been unlucky and got one of the uberlemons?
Sam_68 said:
With the VW engine under discussion, it seems that there can be individual lemons, rather than the deisgn being a lemon overall.
BG bought his Fabia around the same time as mine, and had much higher oil consumption right from the start. Mine needed topping up with a litre of oil, half way to its first service, which whilst I found it disappointing, was still much better than BG's. I'm now approaching 30K miles, and oil use is negligible; it certainly doesn't need topping up between services any more.
Sounds like the OP has just been unlucky and got one of the uberlemons?
The way they way they are driven is a significant factor in this. Babying a modern car engine running fully synthetic oil from new is a recipe for high oil consumption IME. They need to be driven reasonably hard to ensure the bores don't glaze.BG bought his Fabia around the same time as mine, and had much higher oil consumption right from the start. Mine needed topping up with a litre of oil, half way to its first service, which whilst I found it disappointing, was still much better than BG's. I'm now approaching 30K miles, and oil use is negligible; it certainly doesn't need topping up between services any more.
Sounds like the OP has just been unlucky and got one of the uberlemons?
Hi,
I have stripped a few engines that have had oil consumption problem and found that it has in the main been a assembly problem. The piston rings are not staggered correctly allowing oil to be left on the cylinder walls and some blow-by to carry oil mist through the engine breather into the inlet.
Tell the dealer you didn't realise it was a two stroke engine in you car....
Just my 2p's worth,
Steve.
I have stripped a few engines that have had oil consumption problem and found that it has in the main been a assembly problem. The piston rings are not staggered correctly allowing oil to be left on the cylinder walls and some blow-by to carry oil mist through the engine breather into the inlet.
Tell the dealer you didn't realise it was a two stroke engine in you car....
Just my 2p's worth,
Steve.
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