'Dynapack' 1/2 day at Abbey Motorsport (Oxted, Surrey)
Discussion
Another SUPERB HSV day out 
Great to meet you all again, Paul UKHSV, Dan the Man, Will (in a Brabus smart car!) and Caspy with his GORGEOUS red VXR !
I'm sure everyone will announce their results, here's mine:
Have you ever wondered how many horsepower, you car actually delivers at the rear wheels? The engine power (flywheel) bhp, less losses through the transmission - the gearbox and differential. Virtually all manufacturers quote flywheel bhp (less ancillaries) and not what is actually put down through the wheels - what really matters
Normally power figs are obtained by a run on a rolling road, where the car is tied down and the tyres run rollers - but sometimes you can get ‘slip’ between the tyres and rollers - and if the car is not tied down too well and bounces about whilst under power, it can be a scary experience to watch!
I did a rolling road session with a difference today at Abbey Motorsport - instead of the road, the wheels are removed from the car and the driveshafts are bolted to wheel dynamometers using adaptors. The dynamometers themselves are like big torque converters (they can handle up to 1200 bhp!) and are water cooled. The system gives a far more accurate (and safer) measurement of your power at the rear wheels. They can do 4wd - they just attach 4 dynamometers! The other advantage is in how the run is done. After the engine has been warmed, load is applied on the dynamometers, the car put in 4th gear, and the engine throttle is then opened fully - the load on each dynamometer is reduced gradually (by electronics) and the engine is allowed to spin up to maximum operating rpm. You get a very smooth run. The run is recorded on a graph with bhp torque rpm and air/fuel ratio, and all the data is exportable in excel format for your PC.
But there is a further, very very useful feature built into the Monaro - access to the vehicle management system via the OBD port. The car has around 100 engine and system sensors (ip’s to the engine management system) virtually ALL of them can be viewed ‘real time’ (and stored for playback later) whilst the dyno run is being done
Throttle opening
Coolant temp
Air intake temp
Ignition advance
Knock retard
Rpm
Injector rail pressure
Manifold vacuum
Short term fuel trims
Long term fuel trims
Etc etc ….
The whole lot is exportable to excel for bedtime reading
Once you’ve read the data from your car - and read the base tune - you can then ‘edit’ all the tune parameters (it would take a very experienced tuner) or download a new map - such as the HSV profile. A good ‘edit’ tune on its own, can add 20 bhp.
It’s reckoned that a Monaro looses about 60bhp through its transmission, with some 4x4 Scoobys and Nissan GTR’s loosing 70 - 80 bhp.
Mine achieved:
350.4 bhp @ 5800 rpm
349.0 lb/ft torque @ 5000 rpm
at the rear wheels. Lucky I completed that air-box mod last night lol!
Which has got to mean a solid 410 flywheel BHP so I’m very very pleased And that was running standard unleaded, not optimax. An edit tune should add another 20
4 cars were tested today - 2 Monaros (S2) a VXR, and a standard Holden GTS.
The Monaro CV8 is quoted @ 329bhp, the VXR at 382 bhp - but we reckon it puts out more than that And we confirmed that the VXR engine map is the Holden HSV one - not quite as powerful, as the Linden stage 2, but smoother.
Many thanks to Abbey Motorsport If you want your car tested properly, they are the experts.
I have a few photos of the abbey setup to follow...
I suppose next, I'd better work out some power to weight ratios
The Local pub does excellent food too!
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Saturday 25th September 08:14
Great to meet you all again, Paul UKHSV, Dan the Man, Will (in a Brabus smart car!) and Caspy with his GORGEOUS red VXR !
I'm sure everyone will announce their results, here's mine:
Have you ever wondered how many horsepower, you car actually delivers at the rear wheels? The engine power (flywheel) bhp, less losses through the transmission - the gearbox and differential. Virtually all manufacturers quote flywheel bhp (less ancillaries) and not what is actually put down through the wheels - what really matters
Normally power figs are obtained by a run on a rolling road, where the car is tied down and the tyres run rollers - but sometimes you can get ‘slip’ between the tyres and rollers - and if the car is not tied down too well and bounces about whilst under power, it can be a scary experience to watch!
I did a rolling road session with a difference today at Abbey Motorsport - instead of the road, the wheels are removed from the car and the driveshafts are bolted to wheel dynamometers using adaptors. The dynamometers themselves are like big torque converters (they can handle up to 1200 bhp!) and are water cooled. The system gives a far more accurate (and safer) measurement of your power at the rear wheels. They can do 4wd - they just attach 4 dynamometers! The other advantage is in how the run is done. After the engine has been warmed, load is applied on the dynamometers, the car put in 4th gear, and the engine throttle is then opened fully - the load on each dynamometer is reduced gradually (by electronics) and the engine is allowed to spin up to maximum operating rpm. You get a very smooth run. The run is recorded on a graph with bhp torque rpm and air/fuel ratio, and all the data is exportable in excel format for your PC.
But there is a further, very very useful feature built into the Monaro - access to the vehicle management system via the OBD port. The car has around 100 engine and system sensors (ip’s to the engine management system) virtually ALL of them can be viewed ‘real time’ (and stored for playback later) whilst the dyno run is being done
Throttle opening
Coolant temp
Air intake temp
Ignition advance
Knock retard
Rpm
Injector rail pressure
Manifold vacuum
Short term fuel trims
Long term fuel trims
Etc etc ….
The whole lot is exportable to excel for bedtime reading
Once you’ve read the data from your car - and read the base tune - you can then ‘edit’ all the tune parameters (it would take a very experienced tuner) or download a new map - such as the HSV profile. A good ‘edit’ tune on its own, can add 20 bhp.
It’s reckoned that a Monaro looses about 60bhp through its transmission, with some 4x4 Scoobys and Nissan GTR’s loosing 70 - 80 bhp.
Mine achieved:
350.4 bhp @ 5800 rpm
349.0 lb/ft torque @ 5000 rpm
at the rear wheels. Lucky I completed that air-box mod last night lol!
Which has got to mean a solid 410 flywheel BHP so I’m very very pleased And that was running standard unleaded, not optimax. An edit tune should add another 20
4 cars were tested today - 2 Monaros (S2) a VXR, and a standard Holden GTS.
The Monaro CV8 is quoted @ 329bhp, the VXR at 382 bhp - but we reckon it puts out more than that And we confirmed that the VXR engine map is the Holden HSV one - not quite as powerful, as the Linden stage 2, but smoother.
Many thanks to Abbey Motorsport If you want your car tested properly, they are the experts.
I have a few photos of the abbey setup to follow...
I suppose next, I'd better work out some power to weight ratios
The Local pub does excellent food too!
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Saturday 25th September 08:14
Thanks to all the guys that turned up today and I think we would all like to thank "Abbey" for their profesional service.......
I will make a page on the web site which will display the figures in context and it will give a very good idea of the best way to get more power.
This is a email from Dan at Abbey which was waiting when I arrived home...
Please pass on my thanks to your group for allowing me to run your Holdens
today, it was an interesting exercise that I hope will lead to the chance to
have a little go at tuning one myself. I maintain my view that there is some
serious ground to be gained by running a more suitable air/fuel ratio and
perhaps feeding in a few more degrees of ignition timing here and there,
especially on the Supercharged car, which is basically drowned with fuel at
the top end.
More than anything, the software you showed me today opens the gate for your
group to be able to make modifications to the cars and then have them
fine-tuned and correctly remapped for each given modification, a practice
that we seem to be taking for granted in the Japanese scene. Also, gains can
be made by mapping cars in a manner that is more suitable to their use,
i.e.. Cars for fast road and track do not require the large volumes of fuel
at the top end of say, a car made for drag, or top speed work. Driveability
issues are also something we commonly address with remapping.
Find attached a collection of the CSV files from the dynapack, both runs for
each car are included, I have placed the most relevant data on the CSV
files, which should just import directly into Excel or any other
Spreadsheet.
I will make a page on the web site which will display the figures in context and it will give a very good idea of the best way to get more power.
This is a email from Dan at Abbey which was waiting when I arrived home...
Please pass on my thanks to your group for allowing me to run your Holdens
today, it was an interesting exercise that I hope will lead to the chance to
have a little go at tuning one myself. I maintain my view that there is some
serious ground to be gained by running a more suitable air/fuel ratio and
perhaps feeding in a few more degrees of ignition timing here and there,
especially on the Supercharged car, which is basically drowned with fuel at
the top end.
More than anything, the software you showed me today opens the gate for your
group to be able to make modifications to the cars and then have them
fine-tuned and correctly remapped for each given modification, a practice
that we seem to be taking for granted in the Japanese scene. Also, gains can
be made by mapping cars in a manner that is more suitable to their use,
i.e.. Cars for fast road and track do not require the large volumes of fuel
at the top end of say, a car made for drag, or top speed work. Driveability
issues are also something we commonly address with remapping.
Find attached a collection of the CSV files from the dynapack, both runs for
each car are included, I have placed the most relevant data on the CSV
files, which should just import directly into Excel or any other
Spreadsheet.
Warming up prior to the run.
Hub adaptor....
... with the dyno connected ...
pauls PC is monitoring/recording the engine data output from the Monaro, via the obd port...
dynapack control system
Caspy had to leave after the run and could not make it to the pub, so I didn't get an outside pic of the gorgeous VXR
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Friday 24th September 20:48
I'm looking forward to Paul UK HSV's spreadsheet of the results. There is no doubt that the HSV map produces a smoother torque curve on the run up to 5000 rpm. Both my car, and Dans, suffer a slight drop in torque, around 2 - 2.5k rpm, I hope we can smooth this out using the 'edit' software. Mine put out a bit more power than Dans - did I notice that during my run, mine was adding in some more ignition advance (15 - 20 deg?) I did note that the VXR had more advance.
Well from what I read and hear it was a fantastic success.
The email from the Company was very nice and we need to get back there to maximise our cars.
Looks like another meet to plan.
Well done Will for setting this up and top mark to you 4 guys for making the visit.
Bugga - wish it was near home he heheh
The email from the Company was very nice and we need to get back there to maximise our cars.
Looks like another meet to plan.
Well done Will for setting this up and top mark to you 4 guys for making the visit.
Bugga - wish it was near home he heheh
I have sent the results to the owners by email and I am sorting out a web page......
It may take a few days to do the web page as I need to show some background on the mods done so the results are clear for other owners to see what is a good value for money upgrade, we are trying to avoid the usual B/S about BHP figures..............
It may take a few days to do the web page as I need to show some background on the mods done so the results are clear for other owners to see what is a good value for money upgrade, we are trying to avoid the usual B/S about BHP figures..............
tiler said:
Great results
So the stage 2 cv8 has 350.4 bhp at the wheels.
Would be nice to see all the results.
hope to meet up soon.
Linden advertise their stage 2 as "+60bhp" which would take the standard 329 bhp cv8 to 389bhp - so taking the 'holden industry standard' 60 bhp transmission loss into account, and my 350bhp at the hubs fig, I achieved a 80 bhp increase - so you need to do the cold air box mod aswell. I'm hoping for a furtrher 20 bhp or so once I've fitted a large bore/smooth maf pipe and had the edit tune done
Some power to weight figs to muse over ...
Evo lists the following:
BMW M3 338bhp 1570kg 219bhp/ton
BMW M3 csl 355bhp 1385kg 255bhp/ton
BMW M5 e28 286bhp 1431kg 203bhp/ton
BMW M5 e34 340bhp 1650kg 209bhp/ton
BMW M5 400bhp 1720kg 236bhp/ton
From Autocar:
Monaro CV8 329bhp 1658kg 198bhp/ton
Results from Abbey motorsport dyno run:
Monaro S2 410bhp* 1658kg 247bhp/ton
*350bhp confirmed at rear hubs, 410bhp estimated flywheel bhp
I'm rather pleased with the result
and just for comparison...
Lotus 340R 190bhp 658kg 293bhp/ton
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Sunday 26th September 10:39
Had a little chat with mark today from lsv he said resuls were very good for a stage 2. But i would still like see vxr results. New to this game. And would like to meet others with mods to there monaros. still peeed not seen an other on the road yet. no cv8 or vxr only a blue hsv in tamworth in the last 6 months.
VXR results :......
358rwhp.
363 lb ft atrw.
Car having only done 900 miles.
No air box/maf/tune, just a different cat back exhaust.
Since then have done air box mod (better low down pick up and then hits silly point about 3500rpm)
Using Texaco std unleaded. Runs much better than Optimax. Why i dont know.
>> Edited by caspy on Thursday 30th September 07:29
358rwhp.
363 lb ft atrw.
Car having only done 900 miles.
No air box/maf/tune, just a different cat back exhaust.
Since then have done air box mod (better low down pick up and then hits silly point about 3500rpm)
Using Texaco std unleaded. Runs much better than Optimax. Why i dont know.
>> Edited by caspy on Thursday 30th September 07:29
tiler said:
Had a little chat with mark today from lsv he said resuls were very good for a stage 2. But i would still like see vxr results. New to this game. And would like to meet others with mods to there monaros. still peeed not seen an other on the road yet. no cv8 or vxr only a blue hsv in tamworth in the last 6 months.
The other way to look at the results is that, despite press reports that the cv8 doesn't feel like 329 bhp, it may actually be putting out this figure, or more. The very quiet standard exhaust note may have a part to play in this.
There are still a very rare sight on the road,though. I've only seen one other cv8 (a red one) since I've owned my car.
>> Edited by GSE - Monaro V8 on Thursday 30th September 11:20
Damn, another day out i missed. Not that i can afford to divert money to the holden at the moment, got a car to restore.
GSE, i'm well impressed with that 350 rwhp. When the time comes to up the power, we need to have a chat! And i'm starting from a lowly 308 bhp (flywheel)! scope for an easy 100 bhp!
GSE, i'm well impressed with that 350 rwhp. When the time comes to up the power, we need to have a chat! And i'm starting from a lowly 308 bhp (flywheel)! scope for an easy 100 bhp!
The results look fantastic compared to some of those on the Oz websites, such as the Chipmaster link on the forum and samsperformance.com. The former focuses on an auto Monaro and gets to 300 rwhp, before a mafless tune takes it to 330. The latter has numerous dyno sheets, which have mafless (manual) Monaros at 300-320 rwhp.
Is the Abbey dyno benefitting from attachment to the hubs or is Mark just doing a great job with the stage 2s?
Is the Abbey dyno benefitting from attachment to the hubs or is Mark just doing a great job with the stage 2s?
The reason I have been slow in putting up the Dyno results is that we had no standard cars to get base line figures from.
So no real conclusion could be made............good or bad
At the next Dyno day we now have a bog standard Monaro coming so this will put the results in contex....
So no real conclusion could be made............good or bad
At the next Dyno day we now have a bog standard Monaro coming so this will put the results in contex....
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