laying driveway without MOT / hardcore etc Will it crack?

[CoolHands]

Our neighbour is having their old driveway replaced. The workmen are using no digging out / hardcore of any description. What they have done is lay reinforcement mesh, concrete, stone. It just lays on the compacted earth.

I'm not saying it's bad or good, it will probably be ok would be my thought. But obviously paving sites say about using MOT etc. The thing is, my missus is suggesting we use the same people, and stones to get ours done too, so it matches. Which means now the methodology is important!

So question is, will this in reality be ok? Will the mesh hold it together? Or will it allow the stones to crack?

[V8RX7]

It looks like it was an old concrete yard that has cracked - usually due to not having a sufficiently solid base beneath it

If it's a bit of mesh, trodden into a mix of sharp sand and cement laid on earth then it'll move.

Also the slab laying is IMO poor too - if I'm seeing correctly - he's laid them upside down too.

I wouldn't consider using them even if they were free.

Edited by V8RX7 on Sunday 28th May 10:51

[Ian Geary]

Morning,

I see a fence there - so would assume this is for foot traffic only, and not cars?

It would be criminal to park a car on those slabs (imo) and I doubt they'd be hard wearing enough anyway.

I think the paving expert can be a bit overkill sometimes -whilst excellent, it is aimed more aimed at serious diy to civil contractors.

Without the weight of cars, I think it's more likely to stay level, but it depends on what the existing ground is like. It's certainly better than the 5 dobs method.

It will be good to see the finished results.

Ian

[steveo3002]

slab beyond the gate looks like its an inch to high

[CoolHands]

its for two cars. One a modern range rover!

thanks vrx, I didn't even know the slabs would have a right or wrong way! There is a central entry between our houses (you can see the gap where the white fence ends in the second to last pic), then they peel off to their side and we peel off to ours.

The levels of the site are a bit all over the place (even originally) so I think they're trying to even it out by using more / less mortar, as they didn't dig out to get a consistent level.

However having had a similar issue with our kitchen floor that has cracked to fk as the tile fitters did a similar thing and made up a dropping away floor with thick grout which didn't work.

are there no good tradesmen left...!

[TA14]

V8RX7 said:

Also the slab laying is IMO poor too

Yes, even if OK in the short term for foot traffic, the lack of cover to the mesh will cause rusting and expansion which means cracking.

[V8RX7]

CoolHands said:

thanks vrx, I didn't even know the slabs would have a right or wrong way!

are there no good tradesmen left...!

If you look at the top edges, they are fairly flat / straight, the bottom is bevelled away.

The issue when laying upside down (and some do prefer that look) is the huge / uneven / deep gaps and I suspect decreased frost resistance

The problem is when you get 1 quote for half the price of the other - the vast majority pick the cheap one without asking the right questions.

[wolfracesonic]

I'll go against everyone else's opinion and say if it's a decent sub-grade the concrete is laid on, then laying the slabs directly onto the concrete, with the backs coated with an SBR slurry will be better than a normal type 1, grit sand/cement mix set up, especially if vehicles are involved.; Can't tell from the pics what way the slabs are.

[Mr GrimNasty]

My tuppence - it'll be fine.

[eliot]

I had pattern imprinted concrete laid straight onto essentially a mix of mud and the remains of the gravel drive - neighbor said it was a bodge job - contractor said the concrete has fibres in it and it wont budge.
In the 10 years I was there it never did crack!

Having said that if you want something that is 'right' and wont move I would recommend a base of taram,crushed concrete,type-1, heavily rollered and then blocks or slabs as desired.

[brrapp]

It doesn't matter how hard the soil is, if it's soil it'll expand and contract as moisture levels change in the ground and crack up the concrete whether it's got reinforcement or not. That looks like decent natural stone rather than precast slabs so there's no wrong way to put it, just whatever looks best. It's far too good (expensive) a material to let cowboys loose on. OP, don't let them near your garden, if they're willing do do it like that, they're cowboys.

[Andehh]

Depends on what it's built on! If it's well compacted sub layer, likely to be fine. If clay which will soak up/dry out then & shift over time it's risky!

Either way, it's not exactly built as per the normal process!

[C Lee Farquar]

brrapp said:

It doesn't matter how hard the soil is, if it's soil it'll expand and contract as moisture levels change

Exactly so, this is the primary purpose of the sub base. You may get away with it if there's no clay, but why risk it?

[m3jappa]

The slabs are upside down. so thats not a good start, the pattern doesn't even look like a normal random pattern or stretcher bond.
The bed is pretty thin and the mesh looks like its right on the deck so not that helpful.

We use 100-125mm of type 1 compacted in 2 layers several times. Slabs laid on a 5:1 10mm ballast and cement. Sbr slurry painted on backs of slabs. Jet washed and jointed using easy joint.

I'm not a big fan of sandstone on driveways. Although doesn't mean its wrong, it just means there can't be any areas which aren't 100% coverage as otherwise slabs will be likely to crack.

I have to compete with stuff like this. literally drives me insane. I bet its cheap and i bet they are still earning good money out of it........

[CoolHands]

Out of interest would you work round in Edgware? HA8 postcode !

[Alucidnation]

They're flagstones.

They are 'supposed' to be uneven.

[m3jappa]

CoolHands said:

Out of interest would you work round in Edgware? HA8 postcode !

Possibly, i just checked on maps and it says its only just over an hour away, although i know the traffic can be fun..... Send a pm if you want, if i can't do anything i'll see if i can find someone good on a Facebook paving page i go on, theres a few really good pavers on there.

[CoolHands]

Well just to finish this off (for my own future ref so I don't forget the numbers)

You were right they have been laid 'upside down' (I accept this may not matter)





I wasn't too impressed with their finishing off bit where they concreted this triangular bit, this side of the small bricks. Apparently they ran out of flagstones (the neighbour ordered these directly himself though so not their issue I suppose):



However as you can see of this whole view of shared area it doesn't look very pretty anyway:



Ended up charging over 5k labour, it was approx 60 square metres.

Edited by CoolHands on Monday 5th June 21:52

[SystemParanoia]

Is how i'd feel if i'd just been done for £5k by those cowboys!

[bigee]

Sorry if this upsets a few. but that is shocking. As M3jappa says,having to compete with this sort of standard of work would not be too bad if this standard of work was 'cheap' but invariably its a similar cost to a proper tradesman doing a proper job.
Where to start with this ? Sub base (lack of ! ) slabs very poorly laid,straight joints running through entire, 4 corners of the slabs meeting which is a no no, uneven bedding course,which will lead to differential settlement,the pointing/jointing ,wouldnt like to say what they have done there considering the pointing is an integral component of the process which is meant to 'lock' the entire together as well as shed/direct surface water.
Not for me.

Edited by bigee on Monday 5th June 22:09