Look what I just drove...
Discussion
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon1.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon2.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon3.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon4.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon5.jpg[/pic]
I didn't really have enough time to drive it far (about 10 miles). It certainly drives well, the V8 is gorgeous but the gerabox is an bit notchy. It's like the Commodore where the column stalks are reversed. It doesn't seem anywhere near as urgent as the LC but it delivers it differently, the torque is higher up the revs. I hate to say it but it sounds a whole load better than the LC.
>>> Edited by Lotus Carlton on Saturday 24th April 20:58
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon1.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon2.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon3.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon4.jpg[/pic]
[pic]www.megaomega.co.uk/monaro/mon5.jpg[/pic]
I didn't really have enough time to drive it far (about 10 miles). It certainly drives well, the V8 is gorgeous but the gerabox is an bit notchy. It's like the Commodore where the column stalks are reversed. It doesn't seem anywhere near as urgent as the LC but it delivers it differently, the torque is higher up the revs. I hate to say it but it sounds a whole load better than the LC.
>>> Edited by Lotus Carlton on Saturday 24th April 20:58
By the way who ever designed the vinyl text on the side of this blue car needs to be reminded that it is not a Vauxhall Van they are promoting.
If this is their idea of marketing Vauxhall's flagship car, I think they might have miss judged their market!!!!
>> Edited by uk hsv on Saturday 24th April 23:14
If this is their idea of marketing Vauxhall's flagship car, I think they might have miss judged their market!!!!
>> Edited by uk hsv on Saturday 24th April 23:14
I drove one the other day too:
I loved it - so I've ordered one. I've gone for a silver one.
(on "Vauxhall question" pg 4/5 I posted my thoughts on how it drives)
BTW - James - I think I've met you at one of the autobahnstormers meets. Many years ago I used to have a green S reg Commodore GS/E coupe.
Commodore GS/E - I must think of a decent forum name ....
Paul.
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Sunday 25th April 14:04
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Sunday 25th April 14:09
I loved it - so I've ordered one. I've gone for a silver one.
(on "Vauxhall question" pg 4/5 I posted my thoughts on how it drives)
BTW - James - I think I've met you at one of the autobahnstormers meets. Many years ago I used to have a green S reg Commodore GS/E coupe.
Commodore GS/E - I must think of a decent forum name ....
Paul.
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Sunday 25th April 14:04
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Sunday 25th April 14:09
[quote]The Vauxhall badge really does kill it, doesn't it....[/quote]
And why would that be then? It doesn't make the car any different does it? It's still a very quick V8 coupe is not? Badge snobbery really aggrevates me, sorry to get on my soap box but my lowly Vauxhall Carlton will still whoop most standard Holdens/HSV's. It is not my intention to upset all of the members of the forum but let's not forget that Holden sell the Corsa, Astra and Vectra in Australia.
A Vauxhall is no better or worse than most other cars out there. Look at it from the other perspective, maybe by adding the Monaro to the Vauxhall portfolio it will lift the company as opposed to degrading the Holden!!
And why would that be then? It doesn't make the car any different does it? It's still a very quick V8 coupe is not? Badge snobbery really aggrevates me, sorry to get on my soap box but my lowly Vauxhall Carlton will still whoop most standard Holdens/HSV's. It is not my intention to upset all of the members of the forum but let's not forget that Holden sell the Corsa, Astra and Vectra in Australia.
A Vauxhall is no better or worse than most other cars out there. Look at it from the other perspective, maybe by adding the Monaro to the Vauxhall portfolio it will lift the company as opposed to degrading the Holden!!
I don't agree that the Vauxhall badge is a killer: a fine looking car, decent interior and not insubstantial grunt for a very reasonable outlay.
One of the better Q-cars, surely?
Anyway, there can't be many PHers who wouldn't agree that their VX220 Turbo is a most redoubtable hooner and does it too not sport the Griffin (if not the word of the brand?)
One of the better Q-cars, surely?
Anyway, there can't be many PHers who wouldn't agree that their VX220 Turbo is a most redoubtable hooner and does it too not sport the Griffin (if not the word of the brand?)
The VX220 Turbo is a stand-alone model with no styling cues in common with any other Vauxhall. As soon as I saw the Vauxhall badge on the tail of that Monaro, I thought "Astra". It's not a question of badge snobbery for me, it's a question of perceptions and marketing. If they stuck Toyota badges on Lexus cars, do you think they'd sell as many? If they stuck a Ford badge on a Jag? This is the very reason manufacturers go out and buy prestige car brands. I wonder if they ever considered marketing it as a Saab. I know traditional Saab values centre round turbocharging hence the Saab Impreza but if the world didn't change, Audi would still be selling upmarket VW's.
The Lotus Carlton wasn't referred to as a Vauxhall Carlton by anyone for that very reason. So if there was ever a car that engaged badge snobbery, the Lotus Carlton is right up there. Otherwise your forum name would be VauxhallCarlton surely? Same goes for Ford - they nevr say "I've got a Ford RS", they say "I've got a Cosworth". It's not badge snobbery per se, it's telling the world what you've got so they understand it.
It's also the thinnest possible veneer on the VX220 which everyone knows is basically a Lotus and how much would I win if I went into a Vauxhall VX220 dealer and the salesman didn't mention the word Lotus?
>> Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 26th April 09:02
The Lotus Carlton wasn't referred to as a Vauxhall Carlton by anyone for that very reason. So if there was ever a car that engaged badge snobbery, the Lotus Carlton is right up there. Otherwise your forum name would be VauxhallCarlton surely? Same goes for Ford - they nevr say "I've got a Ford RS", they say "I've got a Cosworth". It's not badge snobbery per se, it's telling the world what you've got so they understand it.
It's also the thinnest possible veneer on the VX220 which everyone knows is basically a Lotus and how much would I win if I went into a Vauxhall VX220 dealer and the salesman didn't mention the word Lotus?
>> Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 26th April 09:02
Good point, Evil One but in these days of semi-respectable Skodas and supercar-slaying upper-medium brands (Audi), I think there's a place for stuff like this.
It's perhaps a typically Australian take on things: meat and two veg performance in a deliberately unostentatiously labelled box.
Anyway, it's not a great variation from the themes of previous gen uber cars from the brown paper bag brands: it may well a spiritual successor to say, the Sierra Cosworth.
Anyway, I think Ford have proven that sheer will can overcome the limits of brand stigma, via the GT40.
It's perhaps a typically Australian take on things: meat and two veg performance in a deliberately unostentatiously labelled box.
Anyway, it's not a great variation from the themes of previous gen uber cars from the brown paper bag brands: it may well a spiritual successor to say, the Sierra Cosworth.
Anyway, I think Ford have proven that sheer will can overcome the limits of brand stigma, via the GT40.
An equally good point but the GT40 slayed Ferraris then and does now so the Ford badge is irrelevant as the GT40 is a legend. Nobody in the world doesn't know what a GT40 is without ever using the F word.
Would a Skoda V8 work?
VW Phaeton....?
Don't get me wrong, I really hope the car succeeds and that it provides a platform for better cars in the future. These things take time and perhaps it will provide the image boost that Vauxhall needs but the Cosworths were widely available, this is only 300 cars.
Would a Skoda V8 work?
VW Phaeton....?
Don't get me wrong, I really hope the car succeeds and that it provides a platform for better cars in the future. These things take time and perhaps it will provide the image boost that Vauxhall needs but the Cosworths were widely available, this is only 300 cars.
I just don't get this badge snobbery thing. The manufacturers badge is not at the top of my list when I'm comparing specifications and choosing a new car - looks and performance are at the top for me. I admit though that I have a bit of a soft spot for big Vauxhall/Opel/GM products. The Lotus Carlton - I've never thought of it as a Lotus - to me it's a Vauxhall - the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. The Monaro will be replacing my 03 Porsche Boxster S
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Monday 26th April 10:21
>> Edited by CommodoreGS/E on Monday 26th April 10:21
I think most people will buy the best for the price they can afford, irrespective of badge - except BMW drivers obviously. Some cars transcend the manufacturer anyway - the Lotus Carlton, the 350Z, the Skyline, the Cosworths - each is rarely referred to by it's parental monicker as the car becomes a stand-alone product judged on it's capabilities and market position.
There are no Chevrolet badges on my Camaro, there are no Vauxhall badges on the VX and no BMW badge on the Mini so perhaps the word Vauxhall was unnecessary on the tail of the Monaro. Perhaps a Griffin would have been better?
I think the Opel Monza sold better than the Vauxhall badged cars but even they didn't sell in any great numbers. Do you think this was because they were coupes? I'm wondering whether the Holden Commodore wouldn't have sold better given the lack of sales of the Camaro. The seating in the back of the Moanro looks cramped and no better than the Camaro. Do you think the Commodore might have been a better bet? The GTO in America extends the tradition of big coupes that we haven't had here.
There are no Chevrolet badges on my Camaro, there are no Vauxhall badges on the VX and no BMW badge on the Mini so perhaps the word Vauxhall was unnecessary on the tail of the Monaro. Perhaps a Griffin would have been better?
I think the Opel Monza sold better than the Vauxhall badged cars but even they didn't sell in any great numbers. Do you think this was because they were coupes? I'm wondering whether the Holden Commodore wouldn't have sold better given the lack of sales of the Camaro. The seating in the back of the Moanro looks cramped and no better than the Camaro. Do you think the Commodore might have been a better bet? The GTO in America extends the tradition of big coupes that we haven't had here.
LuS1fer said:
The VX220 Turbo is a stand-alone model with no styling cues in common with any other Vauxhall. As soon as I saw the Vauxhall badge on the tail of that Monaro, I thought "Astra". It's not a question of badge snobbery for me, it's a question of perceptions and marketing. If they stuck Toyota badges on Lexus cars, do you think they'd sell as many? If they stuck a Ford badge on a Jag? This is the very reason manufacturers go out and buy prestige car brands. I wonder if they ever considered marketing it as a Saab. I know traditional Saab values centre round turbocharging hence the Saab Impreza but if the world didn't change, Audi would still be selling upmarket VW's.
The Lotus Carlton wasn't referred to as a Vauxhall Carlton by anyone for that very reason. So if there was ever a car that engaged badge snobbery, the Lotus Carlton is right up there. Otherwise your forum name would be VauxhallCarlton surely? Same goes for Ford - they nevr say "I've got a Ford RS", they say "I've got a Cosworth". It's not badge snobbery per se, it's telling the world what you've got so they understand it.
It's also the thinnest possible veneer on the VX220 which everyone knows is basically a Lotus and how much would I win if I went into a Vauxhall VX220 dealer and the salesman didn't mention the word Lotus?
>> Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 26th April 09:02
LuS1fer said:
The VX220 Turbo is a stand-alone model with no styling cues in common with any other Vauxhall. As soon as I saw the Vauxhall badge on the tail of that Monaro, I thought "Astra". It's not a question of badge snobbery for me, it's a question of perceptions and marketing. If they stuck Toyota badges on Lexus cars, do you think they'd sell as many? If they stuck a Ford badge on a Jag? This is the very reason manufacturers go out and buy prestige car brands. I wonder if they ever considered marketing it as a Saab. I know traditional Saab values centre round turbocharging hence the Saab Impreza but if the world didn't change, Audi would still be selling upmarket VW's.
The Lotus Carlton wasn't referred to as a Vauxhall Carlton by anyone for that very reason. So if there was ever a car that engaged badge snobbery, the Lotus Carlton is right up there. Otherwise your forum name would be VauxhallCarlton surely? Same goes for Ford - they nevr say "I've got a Ford RS", they say "I've got a Cosworth". It's not badge snobbery per se, it's telling the world what you've got so they understand it.
It's also the thinnest possible veneer on the VX220 which everyone knows is basically a Lotus and how much would I win if I went into a Vauxhall VX220 dealer and the salesman didn't mention the word Lotus?
>> Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 26th April 09:02
That is absolutely spot one.
I have just put up a new Video on the site........
It shows the GTO which is the American version of the Monaro. It has a lot of info and runs for 17 mins.
It is a Windows media file so it should stream.
www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk
It shows the GTO which is the American version of the Monaro. It has a lot of info and runs for 17 mins.
It is a Windows media file so it should stream.
www.hsvdriversclub.co.uk
Well I final had the opportunity to drive the Monaro V8 Yesterday at Picador's in Southampton. Chris Ault arranged the drive and I turned up with a business colleague.
The first impressions of the car were very favourable, some have side it looks plain, I would say it is simple which all the best designs are, there are no bolt on goodies that we have come to expect of the Evo brigade.
When parked next to the GTS you can see it is almost the same size (100mm shorter) and a lower roofline, so it still has a lot of road presence!
The interior is a familiar place even though 90% is different it still has the same ergonomics as the GTS. The seats are not as well bolstered as the GTS
and the lower cushion seams a little short in length. Both seats have full power adjustment including powering forward when you need to get into the rear.
Rear access is a bit of a squeeze but when in it is a nice place to be, lots of leg room and good seats, the only thing missing is a rear arm rest. If you were tall it might feel a bit tight on head room but at 5'11" I felt fine. The interior is all black which includes the headlining and this gives a enclosed feel which some may call oppressive but I think it has the effect of shrink-wrapping the car around you, making it feel more cosy!
Now to compare the driving to my GTS.
The Monaro is very quiet! the engine sounds the same but just a few decibels quieter and the exhaust sound is non existent (compared to the GTS). Pulling away seems a smooth affair and the gearbox is just the same as the GTS just with a Little less play in the leaver (only 200 miles on the clock).
Accelerations is again smooth but not as urgent as the GTS. On paper the power difference is small but on the road the GTS is far faster (again I know only 200 miles on the clock) but the GTS races to the red line. This may be due to our lower final drive ratio.?
Handling is very complaint aided by progressive rate springs, But again compared to the GTS it is soft and rolls a fair bit.
As for braking we have been very spoilt in the GTS as compared the brakes are poor.
My conclusion is if I had not been driving a HSV GTS for the pass few years I would have bought the Monaro on the spot (as did the guy who came with me!!!) But it is not up to the driving experience we get from our GTS's.
The dealer has a VXR due to arrive in two weeks and I will be back to test it!!! and based on how good the standard car is it will be a very good car.
ps. any one want to buy a GTS in a few weeks!!!
The first impressions of the car were very favourable, some have side it looks plain, I would say it is simple which all the best designs are, there are no bolt on goodies that we have come to expect of the Evo brigade.
When parked next to the GTS you can see it is almost the same size (100mm shorter) and a lower roofline, so it still has a lot of road presence!
The interior is a familiar place even though 90% is different it still has the same ergonomics as the GTS. The seats are not as well bolstered as the GTS
and the lower cushion seams a little short in length. Both seats have full power adjustment including powering forward when you need to get into the rear.
Rear access is a bit of a squeeze but when in it is a nice place to be, lots of leg room and good seats, the only thing missing is a rear arm rest. If you were tall it might feel a bit tight on head room but at 5'11" I felt fine. The interior is all black which includes the headlining and this gives a enclosed feel which some may call oppressive but I think it has the effect of shrink-wrapping the car around you, making it feel more cosy!
Now to compare the driving to my GTS.
The Monaro is very quiet! the engine sounds the same but just a few decibels quieter and the exhaust sound is non existent (compared to the GTS). Pulling away seems a smooth affair and the gearbox is just the same as the GTS just with a Little less play in the leaver (only 200 miles on the clock).
Accelerations is again smooth but not as urgent as the GTS. On paper the power difference is small but on the road the GTS is far faster (again I know only 200 miles on the clock) but the GTS races to the red line. This may be due to our lower final drive ratio.?
Handling is very complaint aided by progressive rate springs, But again compared to the GTS it is soft and rolls a fair bit.
As for braking we have been very spoilt in the GTS as compared the brakes are poor.
My conclusion is if I had not been driving a HSV GTS for the pass few years I would have bought the Monaro on the spot (as did the guy who came with me!!!) But it is not up to the driving experience we get from our GTS's.
The dealer has a VXR due to arrive in two weeks and I will be back to test it!!! and based on how good the standard car is it will be a very good car.
ps. any one want to buy a GTS in a few weeks!!!
[quote][quote]The Vauxhall badge really does kill it, doesn't it....[/quote]
And why would that be then? It doesn't make the car any different does it? It's still a very quick V8 coupe is not? Badge snobbery really aggrevates me, sorry to get on my soap box but my lowly Vauxhall Carlton will still whoop most standard Holdens/HSV's. It is not my intention to upset all of the members of the forum but let's not forget that Holden sell the Corsa, Astra and Vectra in Australia.
A Vauxhall is no better or worse than most other cars out there. Look at it from the other perspective, maybe by adding the Monaro to the Vauxhall portfolio it will lift the company as opposed to degrading the Holden!![/quote]
the monaro is an iconic car back home...to me its a bit painful to see it badged as a vauxhall, but Im glad to finally see something other than 1.2 liter fours on these narrow British roads
And why would that be then? It doesn't make the car any different does it? It's still a very quick V8 coupe is not? Badge snobbery really aggrevates me, sorry to get on my soap box but my lowly Vauxhall Carlton will still whoop most standard Holdens/HSV's. It is not my intention to upset all of the members of the forum but let's not forget that Holden sell the Corsa, Astra and Vectra in Australia.
A Vauxhall is no better or worse than most other cars out there. Look at it from the other perspective, maybe by adding the Monaro to the Vauxhall portfolio it will lift the company as opposed to degrading the Holden!![/quote]
the monaro is an iconic car back home...to me its a bit painful to see it badged as a vauxhall, but Im glad to finally see something other than 1.2 liter fours on these narrow British roads
Here's an interesting quandary which I thought I'd throw out to you.
I wonder just how it fill fit in with the American car shows in the UK. As you know, most shows have a mutual recognition of the Holdens as a sort of Antipodean Yank and there is a mutual admiration for all things V8 and "different" which enables the American car clubs to welcome the Holdens onto the field as something out of the ordinary. Once badged as a Vauxhall (even at 300 a year), the question is where you draw the line? Do you allow the Holdens on and refuse the 300 Vauxhalls?
I know that Vauxhalls have their own clubs but wonder where owners will see themselves - as Antipodean Yanks or sitting amongst a whole crowd of Astras, Calibras etc. Mind you, they might yet start a club of their own like the VX220 I suppose.
I wonder just how it fill fit in with the American car shows in the UK. As you know, most shows have a mutual recognition of the Holdens as a sort of Antipodean Yank and there is a mutual admiration for all things V8 and "different" which enables the American car clubs to welcome the Holdens onto the field as something out of the ordinary. Once badged as a Vauxhall (even at 300 a year), the question is where you draw the line? Do you allow the Holdens on and refuse the 300 Vauxhalls?
I know that Vauxhalls have their own clubs but wonder where owners will see themselves - as Antipodean Yanks or sitting amongst a whole crowd of Astras, Calibras etc. Mind you, they might yet start a club of their own like the VX220 I suppose.
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