The factory is listening now!
Discussion
Guys....any of you with my list having the same number 7? My interior now looks awful - like a cheap kit car. The Bison is breaking down to reveal a darker spongey sub-layer. Because it was a light colour to start with (parchment) it now looks like in-grained dirt everywhere. It's also completely rubbed away under the seat belt. I've asked my dealer for a factory response - I'm not prepared to accept a re-trim with bison when it's only going to last a couple of months again. You guys with darker colours may not be noticing this yet, but look very closely - if you see tiny sponge-like holes you've got the same problem....
Same problem with the bison on mine, combined with the ridiculous amount of adhesive that they managed to get on the face of the bison when they trimmed the car. 
I've asked TMS to speak to the factory regarding a re-trim in leather, but there's no news yet. They're probably still too busy trying to fix the piece of bodywork that was about to snap off.
I've asked TMS to speak to the factory regarding a re-trim in leather, but there's no news yet. They're probably still too busy trying to fix the piece of bodywork that was about to snap off.
I agree with Lance that this is all getting out of hand - this thread I mean. The Bison problem is another supplier fault - they should be expected to supply materials of a suitable standard - you cannot expect TVR to test all their components to destruction. Yes there are some basic design errors (the seatbelt issue should have been sorted out 10 years ago), but to say they are cutting corners is untrue. These are hand built cars from a small manufacturer. Sort out the problems through your dealer. There's no point forming a lynch mob - my car has some of the faults on Lance's list, but they are minor quality niggles for the most part, and have no effect on safety, handling etc. They are mostly just little annoyances which can be sorted out. Get it in perspective. This is not Porsche we are dealing with - I think TVR are working hard to get it right, but their cars are a little way from being the finished article. You could say that it's our fault! - we see the Tamora, all slam the orders in, and they have to get them to market ASAP, to make some money. Just claim these things as warranty items - negotiate a price for leather re-trim, whatever. But chill out a bit.
nubbin I do agree, to an extent. But for TVRs sake if they want to survive in the £40k sports car sector they cant rely on enthusiasts forgiving attitudes to whate are, basically, glaring flaws that could have been ironed out after only 1000 miles of testing. Yes the dealers are absolutely great compared to others (Porsche in particular, arrogant b**tards) but having to continually rely on them in the first 6 months is not what any of us had in mind when we ordered. I am genuinely concerned about TVRs quality reputation which has undoubtedly deteriorated since the Tamoras introduction - speaking to anyone in the trade at Goodwood last sunday confirmed this. I love the Tamora, I love TVRs philospohy, I love this comradery amoungst owners, I want to remain a loyal customer, and above all I want to help where I can. It would take so little for TVR to improve vastly in customer relations, they only have to take notice of this site....
Lance, can you get some close-up, macro shots of the bison wear, and mail them to me? Mine is silver grey, and doesn't seem to be wearing. One interesting point which may make your heart sink a little - when I was speccing mine, I was going for really pale bison, and I looked at the white one, and I think parchment ended up as my second choice. However, both my dealer, and the factory, told me that even the bison manufacturers were not recommending the very light colours - I assumed it was because it would look dirty too quickly, but maybe it was because it either wears, or shows weaer more quickly. So the manufacturer was aware of a problem! Maybe pursuing the manufacturer in tandem with TVR hassling them might help?
Chaps, after 8,200 miles my bison looks virtually the same as the day I collected the car!
OK, so dust may gather in the grain of the bison and if I look really closely I think it may rub the top of the driver's seat but that's all.
Sorry to hear that the lighter colours are causing problems?
Cheers.... Andrew (ex gb61390)
OK, so dust may gather in the grain of the bison and if I look really closely I think it may rub the top of the driver's seat but that's all.
Sorry to hear that the lighter colours are causing problems?
Cheers.... Andrew (ex gb61390)
thanks nubbin, will mention this to the dealer. If all else fails robertm has negotiated a seat-only leather re-trim with Leven at £680 which sounds fair as long as they can colour-match. In the meantime I'll try to borrow a digi camera and send you some pics. In case I can't soon I'll try to be more specific....
Bison has a natural grained surface, in the "valleys" where the material is thinner the material seems to have stretched which has broken the thin surface film (that carries the colour) and exposed a honeycomb-like sub-layer. Being full of tiny holes this appears much darker hence the appearance of in-grained dirt. Only the bison subject to stretching is affected - ie the bits stuck to the rigid dash are fine and now look much lighter! A second problem is the lack of abrasion resistance - where the seatbelt passes over the seat at shoulder height both the thin film and some of the sub-layer has worn away. Leaves me worried the material has neither suffucient tensile strength or hardness to be appropriate. I've only done 2100 miles since delivery in April and certainly havent cleaned it with harsh chemicals or any abrasives. All the guys with darker shades probably havent noticed the colour contrast between the top film and sub-layer yet.
My dealer (poor guys) have offered a re-trim wherever necessary which must cost them a fortune but I just know the problem will happen again. Anyway, I've rambled on enough for PH readers - email me if you want more detail!
Bison has a natural grained surface, in the "valleys" where the material is thinner the material seems to have stretched which has broken the thin surface film (that carries the colour) and exposed a honeycomb-like sub-layer. Being full of tiny holes this appears much darker hence the appearance of in-grained dirt. Only the bison subject to stretching is affected - ie the bits stuck to the rigid dash are fine and now look much lighter! A second problem is the lack of abrasion resistance - where the seatbelt passes over the seat at shoulder height both the thin film and some of the sub-layer has worn away. Leaves me worried the material has neither suffucient tensile strength or hardness to be appropriate. I've only done 2100 miles since delivery in April and certainly havent cleaned it with harsh chemicals or any abrasives. All the guys with darker shades probably havent noticed the colour contrast between the top film and sub-layer yet.
My dealer (poor guys) have offered a re-trim wherever necessary which must cost them a fortune but I just know the problem will happen again. Anyway, I've rambled on enough for PH readers - email me if you want more detail!
I have to agree with Lance here. When you pay £36K+ for a car you should expect a certain level of quality and customer care. I have owned three TVR's now and ever since I got my first, have always felt that a lot of owners are far too willing to accept niggles and faults without complaint. If I had excepted every fault that occured on my previous Cerbera as just being "normal wear and tear", I would have been nearly £2k lighter.
I agree that most of the Tamora issues are easily fixed and fairly minor, in which case my question is why are they still coming out the factory with these problems, despite being notified of them some months back ? Why don't the factory more publicly announce that they are aware of and working on them as this would help tremendously. It took me nearly a week to get them to admit they were working on a fix for the seatbelt issue.
I like Lance just hope that TVR start to sort themselves out as there is a very real danger that loyal customers like myself, will loose faith and they will end up in serious trouble.
Mark
I agree that most of the Tamora issues are easily fixed and fairly minor, in which case my question is why are they still coming out the factory with these problems, despite being notified of them some months back ? Why don't the factory more publicly announce that they are aware of and working on them as this would help tremendously. It took me nearly a week to get them to admit they were working on a fix for the seatbelt issue.
I like Lance just hope that TVR start to sort themselves out as there is a very real danger that loyal customers like myself, will loose faith and they will end up in serious trouble.
Mark
quote:
Im sorry - I think thats not something I can help with.
Don't think any of us expect you to Claire. You have done more than can be expected so far.And if you are going to the "tie and Pie" I'm sure there will be a queue to buy you a drink (and not just because of that pic of yourself you posted a couple of months back
I agree with the earlier point that the dealers have a large part to play in giving feedback to TVR and sorting out their customers problems. After initially being really good my dealer has given me bugger all feedback on upgrades, such as kickplates, seat belt changes etc. etc. I shouldn't have to chase them after spending £36K they should be ringing me....
for anyone not bored by this yet the Bison and Lamonta manufacturer is Boynett Ltd in Bedfordshire www.boynett.com I'm talking to them now.....
quote:
If all else fails robertm has negotiated a seat-only leather re-trim with Leven at £680 which sounds fair as long as they can colour-match.
Just in case anyone is interested in this, it was actually Zertec who gave me the price, and that is to retrim both the seats in leather and fit carbon fibre leather on the rubbing points, as on Zertec's own seats.
Just followed that link to Boynett and apparently the Bison lookalike leather is tested for abrasive quality...
www.boynett.com/mere_bison.htm
Edited just to say £23.95 a metre for Bison and £33.50 a metre for Lamonta I wouldnt go anywhere near TVR or a dealer if I wanted a seat retrimming in this...
Matt.
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Tuesday 10th September 16:42
www.boynett.com/mere_bison.htm
Edited just to say £23.95 a metre for Bison and £33.50 a metre for Lamonta I wouldnt go anywhere near TVR or a dealer if I wanted a seat retrimming in this...
Matt.
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Tuesday 10th September 16:42
I've had a look at my seat belt areas Lance, and they seem fine - looks like it may be a problem with your batch of fabric....
That blue and orange thing is the original Tamora show car. Which reminds me, anyone off to this year's show to see "the new model?" If so, we should arrange to meet for a coffee and chin-wag.
>> Edited by nubbin on Tuesday 10th September 17:05
That blue and orange thing is the original Tamora show car. Which reminds me, anyone off to this year's show to see "the new model?" If so, we should arrange to meet for a coffee and chin-wag.
>> Edited by nubbin on Tuesday 10th September 17:05
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