Sag's appreciating in value?
Discussion
Stever said:
I'm on my 4th TVR covering about 22 years and probably not loads but maybe 60 -70,000 miles - I call out to breakdown when I left the lights on in the Griff. No Rose tinted glasses I'm obviously just very lucky
Yes very! But someone will always correct me and say that they never break down and that they are the most reliable car on the planet. It is the nature of forums I am afraid whether true or not! I have a cat who is 16 years old and when I tell people they always tell me of a friend who has a cat who is 20! Human nature!!keynsham said:
Yes very! But someone will always correct me and say that they never break down and that they are the most reliable car on the planet. It is the nature of forums I am afraid whether true or not! I have a cat who is 16 years old and when I tell people they always tell me of a friend who has a cat who is 20! Human nature!!
yes but Richard, when you buy something like a hand built car for less money than you might have to hand to the Germans or Italians, you should have your eyes open and as Swisstoni says have it maintained by someone who knows the areas that need addressing. If your Chimp leaked why didn't you fix it/ get it fixed? We all know someone who has had an SL Merc with a boot full of water.Let's face it TVR's aren't everyday cars (i know some do) and really a garage is essential, I'm lucky there too but each time I moved that was high on the priority list (for me).
I think you either get TVR or you don't, if you do you struggle to think of a more beautiful car than a Griff or T350 for the same value for money. The Sag is a different league in terms of an event and the values reflect that. It's not about outright speed it's about owning it for me
All true. I have just bought a 350i needing work to get it back and running and it is just a hobby. But my Chimaera was bought as an every day car when they were still making them new. I don't think TVR thought of them as 'not' every day cars then. Even then I was warned by those in the know about unreliability but I chose to ignore it. I had so much trouble with such a new car that even the TVR dealership didn't want it back six months later when I had had enough!! All the fixes were done by the dealer which was Broughtons in Bristol back then to the point where they told me that they were unwilling to continue to fix it without charging. Up until that point I had beengetting them to put things right as it was so new and so things going wrong like they did shouldn't be expected!
I guess it was just a bad one in reality but as they say, mud sticks!!
I guess it was just a bad one in reality but as they say, mud sticks!!
Great, the wedges are magnificent with a matching sound track, I loved mine good luck with your project.
“Those in the know”. ’There’s the crux. My experience of those in the know are people who
a) have never owned a TVR and know a mate who has a mate who’s wife hated theirs because it messed her hair up
b) tell you how they actually used to own a Tamsin 360 and a Griffin
c) are simply knobheads
I still know someone who fits all 3 descriptions and constantly moans about his expensive German classic barges.
I really don’t think TVR ever intended their cars to be daily drivers, the yuppies were where a lot of this unreliable crap stems from
“Those in the know”. ’There’s the crux. My experience of those in the know are people who
a) have never owned a TVR and know a mate who has a mate who’s wife hated theirs because it messed her hair up
b) tell you how they actually used to own a Tamsin 360 and a Griffin
c) are simply knobheads
I still know someone who fits all 3 descriptions and constantly moans about his expensive German classic barges.
I really don’t think TVR ever intended their cars to be daily drivers, the yuppies were where a lot of this unreliable crap stems from
MikeE said:
TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
The E-Type is a WORLD icon, the Griff sadly is not. Jaguar also has Le Mans winning pedigree, TVR do not. American screen stars of the 60's wanted Jags, but TVR, despite having the Swordfish car, never got as much mainstream attention. E-Types are recognised as one of the most beautiful cars built, the Griff has striking looks, but isn't as good. As much as I like a Griff, it's not in the same league (even though as a more modern car, it might be easier/better to own).
Yep agreed, but there's a 20 fold (or more) difference in price between my car and the equivalent E-type which is surely too much.I've loved E-types and TVR's all my life. I've had 6 TVR's including two new Tuscans so finally time to scratch the E-type itch
Enjoy the E-Type!
TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
MikeE said:
TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
The E-Type is a WORLD icon, the Griff sadly is not. Jaguar also has Le Mans winning pedigree, TVR do not. American screen stars of the 60's wanted Jags, but TVR, despite having the Swordfish car, never got as much mainstream attention. E-Types are recognised as one of the most beautiful cars built, the Griff has striking looks, but isn't as good. As much as I like a Griff, it's not in the same league (even though as a more modern car, it might be easier/better to own).
Yep agreed, but there's a 20 fold (or more) difference in price between my car and the equivalent E-type which is surely too much.I've loved E-types and TVR's all my life. I've had 6 TVR's including two new Tuscans so finally time to scratch the E-type itch
Enjoy the E-Type!
The E-type is a long way from being a driver!!
Stever said:
Great, the wedges are magnificent with a matching sound track, I loved mine good luck with your project.
“Those in the know”. ’There’s the crux. My experience of those in the know are people who
a) have never owned a TVR and know a mate who has a mate who’s wife hated theirs because it messed her hair up
b) tell you how they actually used to own a Tamsin 360 and a Griffin
c) are simply knobheads
I still know someone who fits all 3 descriptions and constantly moans about his expensive German classic barges.
I really don’t think TVR ever intended their cars to be daily drivers, the yuppies were where a lot of this unreliable crap stems from
It's a known comment on PH that the owners were TVR's R&D Dept, & unfortunately they could be very unreliable. They are 'hand built' & TVR just didn't have the resources for better design & Q&A checks, especially against mainstream manufacturers who were getting better. What didn't help in the Chim era was demand outstripping production resources, so things got rushed. The Speed 6 engine unreliability issue & consequences on top of an already shaky reputation sealed the fate of ''old' TVR after all.“Those in the know”. ’There’s the crux. My experience of those in the know are people who
a) have never owned a TVR and know a mate who has a mate who’s wife hated theirs because it messed her hair up
b) tell you how they actually used to own a Tamsin 360 and a Griffin
c) are simply knobheads
I still know someone who fits all 3 descriptions and constantly moans about his expensive German classic barges.
I really don’t think TVR ever intended their cars to be daily drivers, the yuppies were where a lot of this unreliable crap stems from
That's not to say other factory made, main car makes could be unreliable (they can & still are). I recently watched a Ferrari video on a late 90'searly 2000 car, & in 21 years, the owner has spent about £80k keeping it on the road!
My Tivs had constant electrical & other niggles, although nothing that stopped the car from working. When the temp gauge went, I was still able to get to a garage. When having my alarm upgraded, dashboard wiring had a box with a singed back, the installer said was lucky we'd seen it. Two owners I know got rid of a new Wedge & Griff 500 within months due to unreliability. Another lost his 1989 S2 to a fire. Didn't Powers workshop have a fire traced back to an owners car? Even Jeremy Clarkson's borrowed Griff broke down on a Euro trip. However, it fixed itself later.
I'd disagree that TVR intended for their cars not to be daily drivers, they are supposed to be modern cars after all, & driving is better than leaving them standing, but their build quality, especially in electrics & water ingress, let them down. If you don't have a garage, I'd recommend a hood at least.
I enjoyed both my Tivs, & went into ownership mindful of 'hand built' quality, but that also previous owners would have tended to fix the cars as they went along, to help get over the factory build issues. Most cars now 'should' be better than when they left the factory, but I don't think I ever had a month when something new didn't appear & need resolving.
As your cars have been reliable, it just goes to show how good they could all have been.
To second all the water ingress / electrical problems. Agreed
First cerb (1997 4.2), ten years ago; parked outside on drive with weather cover if it got particularly bad. Water ingress and electrics were a big problem. Door seals were shocking, despite looking perfect, water in the footwell and would collect in the bottom of the doors and clag up the drain points. reed switches would go and locks / open buttons had a mind of their own. This was a daily driver when it would drive daily.
Second cerb (2003 4.5), currently owned; garaged, only driven in dry weather (within reason) and zero electrical problems. zero of any problems actually and long may it last, touch wood.
If experience has taught me anything, it's that they can be 'easy' to own, but like any slightly aging citizen, they need to be tucked up safe at night, kept warm and comfortable and looked after by a loving member of the family.
First cerb (1997 4.2), ten years ago; parked outside on drive with weather cover if it got particularly bad. Water ingress and electrics were a big problem. Door seals were shocking, despite looking perfect, water in the footwell and would collect in the bottom of the doors and clag up the drain points. reed switches would go and locks / open buttons had a mind of their own. This was a daily driver when it would drive daily.
Second cerb (2003 4.5), currently owned; garaged, only driven in dry weather (within reason) and zero electrical problems. zero of any problems actually and long may it last, touch wood.
If experience has taught me anything, it's that they can be 'easy' to own, but like any slightly aging citizen, they need to be tucked up safe at night, kept warm and comfortable and looked after by a loving member of the family.
I'm pleased to report that my Sag has never let me down / left me stranded since purchased from new, over the course 27k miles. I also don't use it in the wet though so that may have played a significant part.
My previous 2002 Tuscan was however more of a problem child. Purchased used at just over a year old it had an engine failure which the factory diagnosed as due to it having ingested an errant part of catalytic converter. Engine rebuilt and cats replaced under warranty.
It also had an electrical issue resulting in the entire wiring loom having to be replaced (luckily no fire). The car had to be taken to bits to replace this though and I had to pay the labour as TVR would only stump up for the cost of the loom itself after some peesonal badgering
Speed sensors, leakly oil pressure sensors and window encoders were other things that I can recall going wrong - none of those being 'serious'.
They are fantastic cars, but you can be lucky or unlucky as my experience proves.
Though back on topic - isn't it fantastic that Sag values are so strong
My previous 2002 Tuscan was however more of a problem child. Purchased used at just over a year old it had an engine failure which the factory diagnosed as due to it having ingested an errant part of catalytic converter. Engine rebuilt and cats replaced under warranty.
It also had an electrical issue resulting in the entire wiring loom having to be replaced (luckily no fire). The car had to be taken to bits to replace this though and I had to pay the labour as TVR would only stump up for the cost of the loom itself after some peesonal badgering
Speed sensors, leakly oil pressure sensors and window encoders were other things that I can recall going wrong - none of those being 'serious'.
They are fantastic cars, but you can be lucky or unlucky as my experience proves.
Though back on topic - isn't it fantastic that Sag values are so strong
So in 7 years of ownership outside of normal servicing and consumables
Replacement Starter Motor
Replacement AirCon Condenser
Replacement rubber fuel line (not needed, but just common sense)
Replacement Temp Sensor M1275
Replacement Battery (actually the cause of poor starting, starter motor was fine and I didn't need to replace)
Resoldered connection to heated rear window
All but the AirCon Condenser and Fuel Line were replaced by my myself and nothing more that a simple socket set and tools
Not bad for a 17 year old car
Replacement Starter Motor
Replacement AirCon Condenser
Replacement rubber fuel line (not needed, but just common sense)
Replacement Temp Sensor M1275
Replacement Battery (actually the cause of poor starting, starter motor was fine and I didn't need to replace)
Resoldered connection to heated rear window
All but the AirCon Condenser and Fuel Line were replaced by my myself and nothing more that a simple socket set and tools
Not bad for a 17 year old car
Now that you mention it...
In seventeen years (well, seventeen come this Oct), I have had the following outside of normal service:
- Replacement shock (leaking early on)
- Two new batteries
- New starter motor (did that one myself)
- New radiator (did that one myself, but never again)
- Clutch cylinder
- Fuel lines (preventative)
- Have a new clutch, but has been behaving ok of late. Still, will get it fitted at next service as must be close to being on its way out
Not too bad.
In seventeen years (well, seventeen come this Oct), I have had the following outside of normal service:
- Replacement shock (leaking early on)
- Two new batteries
- New starter motor (did that one myself)
- New radiator (did that one myself, but never again)
- Clutch cylinder
- Fuel lines (preventative)
- Have a new clutch, but has been behaving ok of late. Still, will get it fitted at next service as must be close to being on its way out
Not too bad.
PuffsBack said:
So in 7 years of ownership outside of normal servicing and consumables
Replacement Starter Motor
Replacement AirCon Condenser
Replacement rubber fuel line (not needed, but just common sense)
Replacement Temp Sensor M1275
Replacement Battery (actually the cause of poor starting, starter motor was fine and I didn't need to replace)
Resoldered connection to heated rear window
All but the AirCon Condenser and Fuel Line were replaced by my myself and nothing more that a simple socket set and tools
Not bad for a 17 year old car
Unlike a few others but like you I've no axe to grind
"The 3 headed dog has gone to live in Wales but the garage is now full of a small Persian battle axe" I love this quote
Replacement Starter Motor
Replacement AirCon Condenser
Replacement rubber fuel line (not needed, but just common sense)
Replacement Temp Sensor M1275
Replacement Battery (actually the cause of poor starting, starter motor was fine and I didn't need to replace)
Resoldered connection to heated rear window
All but the AirCon Condenser and Fuel Line were replaced by my myself and nothing more that a simple socket set and tools
Not bad for a 17 year old car
Unlike a few others but like you I've no axe to grind
"The 3 headed dog has gone to live in Wales but the garage is now full of a small Persian battle axe" I love this quote
Stever said:
"The 3 headed dog has gone to live in Wales but the garage is now full of a small Persian battle axe" I love this quote
Said 3 Headed Dog is actually back up for sale in Wales currently - https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13511723Seems like the current owner has had it since I sold to him in 2015. Fabulous Cerbera, much missed
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