RSC - Blown V8 Vantage - Order yours Now
Discussion
mikey k said:
+1
I have personal experience of this fitting a 12 psi super charger to my last car.
IMHO there are a few key considerations;
1) It MUST have real time air/fuel ratio monitoring from a wide band O2 sensor linked dymanically to the map. Tis will correct the issues John mentions plus a host of others (fuel quality, ambient temp, atmospheric pressure etc) This is THE biggest issue.
2) Power = heat so improvements MUST be made to the oil, gearbox and water cooling systems
3) Consideration needs to be given to the capability of the drive train and brakes to cope with the extra loads.
4) Another major stumbling block is integrating the required electronics in to the OEM electronics. It is getting hard with CanBus systems as it is essential a network of PC's and software driven
Som messing usually means other thing don't work (on my last car certain kits stopped the ABS and immobiliser working 
)
I'm going to quote myself here I have personal experience of this fitting a 12 psi super charger to my last car.
IMHO there are a few key considerations;
1) It MUST have real time air/fuel ratio monitoring from a wide band O2 sensor linked dymanically to the map. Tis will correct the issues John mentions plus a host of others (fuel quality, ambient temp, atmospheric pressure etc) This is THE biggest issue.
2) Power = heat so improvements MUST be made to the oil, gearbox and water cooling systems
3) Consideration needs to be given to the capability of the drive train and brakes to cope with the extra loads.
4) Another major stumbling block is integrating the required electronics in to the OEM electronics. It is getting hard with CanBus systems as it is essential a network of PC's and software driven
Som messing usually means other thing don't work (on my last car certain kits stopped the ABS and immobiliser working )
I spent £30k supercharging my last car with some great reliability & results
Rather than spending it again on my 4.7
I spent double on a new Vantage S
(can't wait for September )Now I could have saved myself £30k and bought the RSC kit and I'm probably the most likely of us lot to have gone for this kit.
BUT there is NO track record nor evidence of proper testing - so I'm OUT
BTW Another company tried a similar marketing ploy on AMOC not so long ago
http://www.amoc.org/component/option,com_wrapper/I...
Hmmm. So. If I'm reading this right.
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
Edited for accuracy
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
Edited for accuracy
Edited by Colesie on Thursday 21st July 21:43
brumma said:
I take offense at the statement "US punter like alot of Bling." That RSC thing in the photo (as well as their white roadster shown on 6speed) hurts my eyes. Some of us actually have good taste.
Yeah, what the f##k is a "punter" anyway? Seriously, let's not turn this into an Americans vs. Brits debate. I'm from the U.S. and agree with many of you. Colesie said:
Hmmm. So. If I'm reading this right.
American bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
English blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
American bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another American bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
American chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm.
I'm all for this conversiuon and I'm sure plenty will take it up (just not from here).American bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
English blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
American bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another American bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
American chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm.
But that really is an excellent precis, well done that man
JohnG1 said:
tonyhall38 said:
intresting thread.....have i missed something......got bored after first 3 posts......
oh, just a bit of good natured banter and a charity challenge to RSC to face off against Mike at Bamford Rose to explain the testing done....
ksColesie said:
Hmmm. So. If I'm reading this right.
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
Edited for accuracy
Well done again Colesie - Quinny, you're my hero Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
Edited for accuracy
Edited by Colesie on Thursday 21st July 21:43
BamfordMike said:
Very wise analysis JohnG1........
V8 Vantage
+
Pressure charger
+
standard crank
+
sintered (not steel) connecting rods
+
cast (production) not forged pistons
+
inadequate cooling pack
+
no sign off trip to exacting standards to Nurburgring or -20 / +30 degree climates
= blown engine and dubious driveability ...... complete disaster.......
This 'supposed' performance increase exceeds what GT4 cars run on uprated parts - The report justifying how these 'specialists' have signed-off the kit compliant on standard engine internals and cooling pack would be a report I would love to read..!!
I would really like to see in-cylinder pressure data reporting Pmax / Pmean pre and post this modification. If the delta in performance is taken to calculate a rough BMEP then the limits of the standard piston are compromised. I fear that these measurements are ones not understood let alone measured during 'development'.
For information, my sponsored area contains a more detailed analysis of this ... improvement....??
I guess a cam change might be in order too. Lots of overlap doesn't work so well on boosted engines. Not unless we like hot cats.....V8 Vantage
+
Pressure charger
+
standard crank
+
sintered (not steel) connecting rods
+
cast (production) not forged pistons
+
inadequate cooling pack
+
no sign off trip to exacting standards to Nurburgring or -20 / +30 degree climates
= blown engine and dubious driveability ...... complete disaster.......
This 'supposed' performance increase exceeds what GT4 cars run on uprated parts - The report justifying how these 'specialists' have signed-off the kit compliant on standard engine internals and cooling pack would be a report I would love to read..!!
I would really like to see in-cylinder pressure data reporting Pmax / Pmean pre and post this modification. If the delta in performance is taken to calculate a rough BMEP then the limits of the standard piston are compromised. I fear that these measurements are ones not understood let alone measured during 'development'.
For information, my sponsored area contains a more detailed analysis of this ... improvement....??
Edited by BamfordMike on Thursday 21st July 12:54
stanwan said:
I guess a cam change might be in order too. Lots of overlap doesn't work so well on boosted engines. Not unless we like hot cats.....
Quite right, and several pints into the whole discussion the list of 'worries' would be never ending.But, we apparently worry for nothing here, the company releasing this product states on 6speedOnline forum;
"we have taken full control of the process and the results have been great".
Full control of the process means?? every single worry, concern over durability, driveability niggle and potential error state mode has been researched, tested, developed and reported....
Yeah right.
I admire the quest to deliver this kind of modification, it truly requires engineering prowess to deliver forced induction on modern day cars. But to even consider such a kit on a car such as an Aston, it has to be delivered to the highest engineering standards by the highest calibre folk - i dont see that here, but that's just my opinion.
Strangely, the launch of the product on 6speedonline forum was to the backdrop of some questionable consumer relation practices, no substantiating data - not even a real power test - strange...
Colesie said:
Hmmm. So. If I'm reading this right.
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you all NEED a supercharger on your car"
blokes who own and drive V8 Vantages:- "err..that doesn't sound like a very good idea"
Bloke who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "then you are all idiots like another bloke who has probably also never owned or driven a V8 Vantage told me you were"
Bloke who was in charge of making sure the V8 Vantage didn't blow up:- "this will make the V8 Vantage blow up, and this is why"
Chap who's never owned or driven a V8 Vantage:- "you are all idiots"
Hmmm
BamfordMike said:
I admire the quest to deliver this kind of modification, it truly requires engineering prowess to deliver forced induction on modern day cars. But to even consider such a kit on a car such as an Aston, it has to be delivered to the highest engineering standards by the highest calibre folk - i dont see that here, but that's just my opinion.
I have to agree with that. Wouldn't expect anything but the best for an Aston, yet this looks a little amateur to me.Out of curiosity, what sort of power could be achieved by tuning a regular 4.3 V8V for £20k? I guess the conversion to 4.7 would be a good starting point, but how much extra could that get you?
George H said:
I have to agree with that. Wouldn't expect anything but the best for an Aston, yet this looks a little amateur to me.
Out of curiosity, what sort of power could be achieved by tuning a regular 4.3 V8V for £20k? I guess the conversion to 4.7 would be a good starting point, but how much extra could that get you?
A discussion I would like to have, but this would be a little too tenuous and would need to be conducted in my sponsored area. I am instructed to keep out of the main forum to avoid tenuous discussions, but this one caught my eye seeing as i'm an ex Aston base engine design and development guy.Out of curiosity, what sort of power could be achieved by tuning a regular 4.3 V8V for £20k? I guess the conversion to 4.7 would be a good starting point, but how much extra could that get you?
BamfordMike said:
A discussion I would like to have, but this would be a little too tenuous and would need to be conducted in my sponsored area. I am instructed to keep out of the main forum to avoid tenuous discussions, but this one caught my eye seeing as i'm an ex Aston base engine design and development guy.
Fair enough, I shall ask in the sponsored thread Been posted about before. Ages ago. Do they have more than 2 cars with it installed now?
I'd be surprised if they've broken into the ECU (in the real sense, rather than just jemmying with a screwdriver).
Regardless, it'll be very expensive when it comes here. 20-25k minimum. No warranty worth speaking of. All well and good dismissing that but the replacement costs of an Aston engine and Graziano transmission are somewhat more than an LS1 and a Landrover gearbox.
So, 35k for an older, higher mileage V8. 25k for your supercharger. 60k all up.
Cheapest V12V advertised is 93k. Call it 90k for a deal. 30k difference.
Carbon brakes. 3-4yrs newer. 30k miles less. Warranty. Carbon bits everywhere. Properly sorted handling and development. Proper resale value.
Put another way, the cheapest advertised V8V of comparable age and mileage to the V12V is 66k. Add 20k-25k to that (and still do without all the other stuff).
Yep, the RSC conversion is a veritable bargain.
If they'll sell me one for 10k, and promise to replace my engine and any transmission component for free if they break within 3yrs, I might be interested.
Thought not.
Tuning cars is good fun. But unless you're handy with spanners and the car is relatively common, it's chronically expensive for little real world gain. Even then, it's still chronically expensive.
I'd be surprised if they've broken into the ECU (in the real sense, rather than just jemmying with a screwdriver).
Regardless, it'll be very expensive when it comes here. 20-25k minimum. No warranty worth speaking of. All well and good dismissing that but the replacement costs of an Aston engine and Graziano transmission are somewhat more than an LS1 and a Landrover gearbox.
So, 35k for an older, higher mileage V8. 25k for your supercharger. 60k all up.
Cheapest V12V advertised is 93k. Call it 90k for a deal. 30k difference.
Carbon brakes. 3-4yrs newer. 30k miles less. Warranty. Carbon bits everywhere. Properly sorted handling and development. Proper resale value.
Put another way, the cheapest advertised V8V of comparable age and mileage to the V12V is 66k. Add 20k-25k to that (and still do without all the other stuff).
Yep, the RSC conversion is a veritable bargain.
If they'll sell me one for 10k, and promise to replace my engine and any transmission component for free if they break within 3yrs, I might be interested.
Thought not.
Tuning cars is good fun. But unless you're handy with spanners and the car is relatively common, it's chronically expensive for little real world gain. Even then, it's still chronically expensive.
This thread has just been brought to my attention. A lot of jumping to conclusions going on - seems the concensus is that we're brave/foolish/stupid enough to bolt parts onto a car just for a laugh, just to see what happens.
All the pertinent information will be made available at the appropriate time when this product is released. In the meantime, I'm sure conclusions will continue to be drawn based on assumptions and guesses. So be it.
The only thing I will correct at this time, is that this kit has nothing whatsoever to do with the GMR kit previously mentioned. They are totally discrete.
As you were.
All the pertinent information will be made available at the appropriate time when this product is released. In the meantime, I'm sure conclusions will continue to be drawn based on assumptions and guesses. So be it.
The only thing I will correct at this time, is that this kit has nothing whatsoever to do with the GMR kit previously mentioned. They are totally discrete.
As you were.
Stuart Dickinson said:
This thread has just been brought to my attention. A lot of jumping to conclusions going on - seems the concensus is that we're brave/foolish/stupid enough to bolt parts onto a car just for a laugh, just to see what happens.
All the pertinent information will be made available at the appropriate time when this product is released. In the meantime, I'm sure conclusions will continue to be drawn based on assumptions and guesses. So be it.
The only thing I will correct at this time, is that this kit has nothing whatsoever to do with the GMR kit previously mentioned. They are totally discrete.
As you were.
Hey Stuart. £10 to Help for Heroes if someone from RSC responds to the points raised and will engage Mike in this thread or perhaps in his thread (I am not sure if he's supposed to post in thread like this one) in a discussion about testing and what not.All the pertinent information will be made available at the appropriate time when this product is released. In the meantime, I'm sure conclusions will continue to be drawn based on assumptions and guesses. So be it.
The only thing I will correct at this time, is that this kit has nothing whatsoever to do with the GMR kit previously mentioned. They are totally discrete.
As you were.
No one thinks your firm is doing this for a laugh. I believe most would expect you are doing it for money. But many wonder how much testing has been done?
By the way, if this information and picture "somehow" make it out onto Pistonheads - what pray tell do you expect - people to just ignore or people to ask questions?
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