Discussion
Shmee said:
Mako V12V said:
If I'm correct in thinking there's a V12V on show at Geneva, if anyone is going, can they get me the VIN for my registry and some photos! ;-)
I have a photo of both the car and the VIN for you, I will try to remember to send them through tonight.ETA: The vin definitely ended S00864 for what it's worth.
Edited by Shmee on Friday 9th March 09:00
Just back from spending the day at the show. Mixed feelings about the Aston stand. It leaves me wondering how long small prestige manufacturers can afford to attend. The stand was relatively small, apart from the Zagato and horrid Q, all well known models. A dealer invite didn't even get you a place to sit let alone a glass of water unless accompanied.
Perhaps it's time to think differently marketing lovely cars to a loyal customer base.
Perhaps it's time to think differently marketing lovely cars to a loyal customer base.
cardigankid said:
Just to temper all this negativism about Aston Martin, I have just seen a new 991 parked out on the street.
It is ugly. Porsche have lost it in a big way. It is like a 997 but with everything a bit wrong...
There is no Aston I wouldn't want. Their cars are beautiful. They may need continuing improvement but they don't need changing. If they keep their nerve the day when they can take the 911 is almost here. A 991 C2S at £86k or a 2013 Vantage at £85k? No contest.
I think the 991 is the best looking 911 since the 993. It's too big, but that's an affliction that now seems to be de rigeur for manufacturers when it comes time to update each model line.It is ugly. Porsche have lost it in a big way. It is like a 997 but with everything a bit wrong...
There is no Aston I wouldn't want. Their cars are beautiful. They may need continuing improvement but they don't need changing. If they keep their nerve the day when they can take the 911 is almost here. A 991 C2S at £86k or a 2013 Vantage at £85k? No contest.
I also think that Aston has been systematically uglifying their cars since the first DB9/V8V were introduced. The clean, simple, elegant lines and cooly minimalist interior have given way to successive efforts to introduce more chintz, read crass headlamps and body addenda; twinkly, fussy interior knobs, cheap chiclet buttons and hideous 'muscle fibre' leather. The cars may still be good-looking when judged against many competitors, but they are headed in the wrong direction! Sort of like Audi, once the preserve of simple, elegant German design ten years ago, now all gaping maws, clashing creases and asymmetric interiors.
Ten years ago, it seemed the company could do no wrong under the fresh leadership of Dr. Bez. It had been revitalized into a new bastion of cool. Now... well, it's a bastion of bling and increasingly poor taste. Is that what happens when you have no money, and no idea how you are going to get any?
quench said:
...
I also think that Aston has been systematically uglifying their cars since the first DB9/V8V were introduced. The clean, simple, elegant lines and cooly minimalist interior have given way to successive efforts to introduce more chintz, read crass headlamps and body addenda; twinkly, fussy interior knobs, cheap chiclet buttons and hideous 'muscle fibre' leather. The cars may still be good-looking when judged against many competitors, but they are headed in the wrong direction! Sort of like Audi, once the preserve of simple, elegant German design ten years ago, now all gaping maws, clashing creases and asymmetric interiors.
Ten years ago, it seemed the company could do no wrong under the fresh leadership of Dr. Bez. It had been revitalized into a new bastion of cool. Now... well, it's a bastion of bling and increasingly poor taste. Is that what happens when you have no money, and no idea how you are going to get any?
This. x100.I also think that Aston has been systematically uglifying their cars since the first DB9/V8V were introduced. The clean, simple, elegant lines and cooly minimalist interior have given way to successive efforts to introduce more chintz, read crass headlamps and body addenda; twinkly, fussy interior knobs, cheap chiclet buttons and hideous 'muscle fibre' leather. The cars may still be good-looking when judged against many competitors, but they are headed in the wrong direction! Sort of like Audi, once the preserve of simple, elegant German design ten years ago, now all gaping maws, clashing creases and asymmetric interiors.
Ten years ago, it seemed the company could do no wrong under the fresh leadership of Dr. Bez. It had been revitalized into a new bastion of cool. Now... well, it's a bastion of bling and increasingly poor taste. Is that what happens when you have no money, and no idea how you are going to get any?
You missed off crappy fonts in your list of "improvements".
Perhaps we should wait and see what the new 'Vanquish' (A310) is like before totally writing Aston off. Like most businesses in this trading environment they have to adapt to where the market is. Unfortunately in the past this hasn't happened with severe financial issues the result. I have great respect for what Aston achieve with limited budgets and they still have some of the best looking , sounding and rewarding cars on the road IMO.
silverspeed said:
Perhaps we should wait and see what the new 'Vanquish' (A310) is like before totally writing Aston off. Like most businesses in this trading environment they have to adapt to where the market is. Unfortunately in the past this hasn't happened with severe financial issues the result. I have great respect for what Aston achieve with limited budgets and they still have some of the best looking , sounding and rewarding cars on the road IMO.
I've heard that diversification is good for business but they should solidify their car lineup before moving into aviation. IIRC on my factory tour I spotted an engine with VH240 or 260 stuck to it on a high-grade piece of A4 paper and I asked what it meant and the guy said it was the reference code for the model that engine was going in; VH standing for the VH platform and then first digit for the model and the latter two usually denoting a coupe or a roadster. I asked what that particular code meant but, understandably, he gave nothing away but since then I've though a bit more about it. It was on the Vantage line and as that was the second car on the VH (with DB9 being first and therefore being VH1XX) 'philosophy' I'd assume that 310 would mean its a development of the third car, DBS. Continuing that theory VH4XX would be Rapide and VH5 being Virage.
A glorious work horse that is the A310...
While I agree that the original Vantage has the purest form, and that the design now needs to be moved forward with a fresh One-77 style design, I do think some are being over negative. The VH range is still stunning 7 years on and has been continuously developed and refined every year, they are still very special cars IMO.
I'm sure A.M. Will be unveiling some exciting new models later in the year, they do need to move the technology forward, now direct injection, double clutch gearboxes, touch screen multi-media are all pretty mainstream. As they do appear to listen to owner feedback, I'm sure there is some very interesting new models under wraps.
I'm sure A.M. Will be unveiling some exciting new models later in the year, they do need to move the technology forward, now direct injection, double clutch gearboxes, touch screen multi-media are all pretty mainstream. As they do appear to listen to owner feedback, I'm sure there is some very interesting new models under wraps.
Grant3 said:
touch screen multi-media
I really, really dislike touch-screen devices in a car. If there is a physical button or tactile control you can be doing things while your eyes stay on the road (or just very quick glances at the display), if however you must coordinate exactly where you press then your eyes go down to the screen for much more of the time...Murph7355 said:
quench said:
...
I also think that Aston has been systematically uglifying their cars since the first DB9/V8V were introduced. The clean, simple, elegant lines and cooly minimalist interior have given way to successive efforts to introduce more chintz, read crass headlamps and body addenda; twinkly, fussy interior knobs, cheap chiclet buttons and hideous 'muscle fibre' leather. The cars may still be good-looking when judged against many competitors, but they are headed in the wrong direction! Sort of like Audi, once the preserve of simple, elegant German design ten years ago, now all gaping maws, clashing creases and asymmetric interiors.
Ten years ago, it seemed the company could do no wrong under the fresh leadership of Dr. Bez. It had been revitalized into a new bastion of cool. Now... well, it's a bastion of bling and increasingly poor taste. Is that what happens when you have no money, and no idea how you are going to get any?
This. x100.I also think that Aston has been systematically uglifying their cars since the first DB9/V8V were introduced. The clean, simple, elegant lines and cooly minimalist interior have given way to successive efforts to introduce more chintz, read crass headlamps and body addenda; twinkly, fussy interior knobs, cheap chiclet buttons and hideous 'muscle fibre' leather. The cars may still be good-looking when judged against many competitors, but they are headed in the wrong direction! Sort of like Audi, once the preserve of simple, elegant German design ten years ago, now all gaping maws, clashing creases and asymmetric interiors.
Ten years ago, it seemed the company could do no wrong under the fresh leadership of Dr. Bez. It had been revitalized into a new bastion of cool. Now... well, it's a bastion of bling and increasingly poor taste. Is that what happens when you have no money, and no idea how you are going to get any?
You missed off crappy fonts in your list of "improvements".
You really need to stop rising to the bait chaps. You do your intellects a disservice
Edited by Jockman on Monday 12th March 12:57
Just enjoyed a great day at Geneva. Met with Bryan from HWM and later Simon S from Gaydon. Hospitally was excellent feeling recharged with Champers followed by ample Coke, coffee and biscuits!
The Q car is - err interesting! Not sure about the yellow trim! The Zagato stunning - but IMHO not worth the premium over chassis number ....864 V12V - the new F12 Ferrari, well that does look lovely.
Just need to wait for the 'new development' cars from the factory!
G
The Q car is - err interesting! Not sure about the yellow trim! The Zagato stunning - but IMHO not worth the premium over chassis number ....864 V12V - the new F12 Ferrari, well that does look lovely.
Just need to wait for the 'new development' cars from the factory!
G
Edited by GPM3D on Monday 12th March 21:34
GPM3D said:
Just enjoyed a great day at Geneva. Met with Bryan from HWM and later Simon S from Gaydon. Hospitally was excellent feeling recharged with Champers followed by ample Coke, coffee and biscuits!
The Q car is - err interesting! Not sure about the yellow trim! The Zagato stunning - but IMHO not worth the premium over chassis number ....864 V12V
Just need to wait for the 'new development' cars from the factory!
G
We are going on Wednesday. No sign of a V12R then? Glad to hear there's some hospitality though. The Q car is - err interesting! Not sure about the yellow trim! The Zagato stunning - but IMHO not worth the premium over chassis number ....864 V12V
Just need to wait for the 'new development' cars from the factory!
G
What scares me most about this is what Dr. Bez says. He truly believes that he could build basically anything (regardless of what is under the skin), call it an Aston Martin, and as long as he markets it brilliantly (which he equally clearly is convinced he can), people will believe the things are Aston Martins. I'm certain he truly believes this because of the Cygnet -- nothing could be more horrific proof of his convictions. He is completely, utterly, and dangerously (for the marque) WRONG.
Taking the next V8 down market -- and dropping its performance -- seems patently wrong. It is, IMO, well-placed in the market now. It offers virtually identical performance to a 997 -- differences are so small as to be meaningless on the road -- with far greater exclusivity, craftsmanship, materials quality, and general specialness. The 991 has upped its performance, which doesn't really bother me, but for Aston to move in the opposite direction seams rather absurd.
Having said that, I do think that 730hp Ferraris (or anything else) are rather pointless -- the performance race has gotten ridiculous. Why do we need 300hp Camrys? With all of the new technology, it seems to me that we can maintain current levels of performance -- which are really very high -- while significantly reducing emissions. FWIW, I recently drove the new McLaren -- absolutely fantastic car. But it really is too fast for the road -- there is just no way (at least in my part of the world) to tap into its performance without going at speeds that are so far above what is reasonable on the road that I would be just hugely frustrated all the time (assuming I didn't end up in jail, or worse).
Having said that, I do think that 730hp Ferraris (or anything else) are rather pointless -- the performance race has gotten ridiculous. Why do we need 300hp Camrys? With all of the new technology, it seems to me that we can maintain current levels of performance -- which are really very high -- while significantly reducing emissions. FWIW, I recently drove the new McLaren -- absolutely fantastic car. But it really is too fast for the road -- there is just no way (at least in my part of the world) to tap into its performance without going at speeds that are so far above what is reasonable on the road that I would be just hugely frustrated all the time (assuming I didn't end up in jail, or worse).
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
Interesting that AM aren't mentioned as a luxury brand beating the recession. If they aren't matching the other luxury brands in performance should we be worried or is it the age-old argument of independent struggling in comparison to group-supported brands?
Interesting that AM aren't mentioned as a luxury brand beating the recession. If they aren't matching the other luxury brands in performance should we be worried or is it the age-old argument of independent struggling in comparison to group-supported brands?
Vantagefan said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
Interesting that AM aren't mentioned as a luxury brand beating the recession. If they aren't matching the other luxury brands in performance should we be worried or is it the age-old argument of independent struggling in comparison to group-supported brands?
You're assuming the the reporters at PH are any good. Aston grew 12% last quarter (compared to same quarter previous year). Just because PH don't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen Interesting that AM aren't mentioned as a luxury brand beating the recession. If they aren't matching the other luxury brands in performance should we be worried or is it the age-old argument of independent struggling in comparison to group-supported brands?
Let not forget that PH has been reporting that the Cygnet was being made to get round emissions regulations - which is just an internet myth
Neil1300R said:
You're assuming the the reporters at PH are any good. Aston grew 12% last quarter (compared to same quarter previous year). Just because PH don't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen
Let not forget that PH has been reporting that the Cygnet was being made to get round emissions regulations - which is just an internet myth
True, it could also just be that PH report the news they are fed or try and find a reason for a project when there seems to be no logical one available!Let not forget that PH has been reporting that the Cygnet was being made to get round emissions regulations - which is just an internet myth
Bearing in mind their entry into China and India you'd expect better results than 12% especially when Ferrari are knocking it out the park.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2e9b42e6-deec-11e0-9af3-...
"Revenues reached 2.251 billion euros, up 17.3 percent, while a record 7,195 cars were sold, up 9.5 percent on the previous year's figure."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/ferr...
AM's 12% growth in comparison to last year is better than Ferrari's 9.5% but it all depends on the base figure. A 100% growth on 1 is not as good as a 1% growth on 100.
Has anyone picked up on a couple of minor obscure references to the idea that the new Bond film Skyfall, released in November, will have a new Aston in it (in addition to the DB5 already pictured in filming) ?
such as here
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/bond-bac...
I had seen and ignored them but I was given (no more than) a hint on the stand in geneva that this may well be the case when I was there on Friday
So whilst I still don't understand whether project 310/new DBS/new vanquish are all one and the same car, or if there will be both a new DBS and a new vanquish (my guess is they are all one & the same, moved more apart within the range than DBS was to DB9), one assumes if there is to be a new Aston in the Bond film, it will be one of these
Other observations - road going Zagato has a few nice new features over the race car I'd seen before including the lights built into the carbon rear valance & interior done nicely, front grille amazing, but some other features toned down including the vents behind the front wheel - shame
such as here
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/bond-bac...
I had seen and ignored them but I was given (no more than) a hint on the stand in geneva that this may well be the case when I was there on Friday
So whilst I still don't understand whether project 310/new DBS/new vanquish are all one and the same car, or if there will be both a new DBS and a new vanquish (my guess is they are all one & the same, moved more apart within the range than DBS was to DB9), one assumes if there is to be a new Aston in the Bond film, it will be one of these
Other observations - road going Zagato has a few nice new features over the race car I'd seen before including the lights built into the carbon rear valance & interior done nicely, front grille amazing, but some other features toned down including the vents behind the front wheel - shame
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