V12 Vantage Roadster Confirmed

[Pugsey]

Pugsey said:

jonby said:

George H said:

Mac355 said:

Assuming that my 2011 v8 Roadster with v low mileage is worth high £60s/ low70s, then i would be looking at paying circa £80k for an extra 90 odd hp, some carbon brakes and some vents....

You're comparing new with used there. Compare a new V8VR to a new V12VR and the difference won't be as much as you think.

36k premium from V8S to V12 on full new list prices - carbon brakes tend to be what, a 10k option on these kinds of cars ? So £26k for power, exclusivity, trim bits & pcs, slightly lighter wheels, etc. Not 'good value' but far from horrendous either. Of course in fairness that's comparing a sports shift car to a manual one......

Come on guys! When I'm driving our V12V (OK it's the g/f's!) I don't give my old V8V or any other V8V a seconds thought. I just live 'in the moment' - and what a moment. Quite different cars/experiences. Difference can't be quantified for totting up £/spec differences. If you want a V12V then you pays what it costs and enjoy. Certainly don't think about it rationally. Who buys cars that way lol?

[jonby]

Pugsey said:

Come on guys! When I'm driving our V12V (OK it's the g/f's!) I don't give my old V8V or any other V8V a seconds thought. I just live 'in the moment' - and what a moment. Quite different cars/experiences. Difference can't be quantified for totting up £/spec differences. If you want a V12V then you pays what it costs and enjoy.

Sure but at that point of upgrading, you have to think about what you are paying and what you get in return. For instance if the upgrade cost 100k on top of the s/h value of your car, you might decide to keep existing car and buy a V12V coupe with the same money ! I agree you can't rationalise any purchases at this level too much, but you have to look at the figures

I was simply pointing out the difference isn't as bad as Mac was suggesting

[jonby]

Mac355 said:

I think the key words in your statement are "full new list price"....

Absolutely Mac ! Hence my assertion that if they only build 100, they won't discount and that will effectively create the exclusivity premium

If they build more, it will be discounted like all the other models and you'll be able to buy nearly new V12V Roadsters for 125-130k not long after launch

[Pugsey]

jonby said:

Pugsey said:

Come on guys! When I'm driving our V12V (OK it's the g/f's!) I don't give my old V8V or any other V8V a seconds thought. I just live 'in the moment' - and what a moment. Quite different cars/experiences. Difference can't be quantified for totting up £/spec differences. If you want a V12V then you pays what it costs and enjoy.

Sure but at that point of upgrading, you have to think about what you are paying and what you get in return. For instance if the upgrade cost 100k on top of the s/h value of your car, you might decide to keep existing car and buy a V12V coupe with the same money ! I agree you can't rationalise any purchases at this level too much, but you have to look at the figures

I was simply pointing out the difference isn't as bad as Mac was suggesting

I know - and agree. Money is money and all that. My post was (semi) light hearted.

[mikey k]

jonby said:

mikey k said:

Been here before

You and me both. I had completely given up hope after Geneva but it is now definitely happening.

I'm beginning to come round to letting BR lose on mine.
It is so well balanced but needs more torque.

[MichaelV8V]

After a day or two thinking about buying one, I pictured day 1 with a new V12VR, and realised that there would be a thought that this is the last new Aston with the old, low power V12, and that wouldn't feel like a good thing. So maybe I'll wait for the V12V with the 'full strength' engine. And then wait for the full strength V12VR after that, and then ...

[jonby]

MichaelV8V said:

After a day or two thinking about buying one, I pictured day 1 with a new V12VR, and realised that there would be a thought that this is the last new Aston with the old, low power V12, and that wouldn't feel like a good thing. So maybe I'll wait for the V12V with the 'full strength' engine. And then wait for the full strength V12VR after that, and then ...

but it could be the last V12 of any type with a manual gearbox.......

[jonby]

mikey k said:

jonby said:

mikey k said:

Been here before

You and me both. I had completely given up hope after Geneva but it is now definitely happening.

I'm beginning to come round to letting BR lose on mine.
It is so well balanced but needs more torque.

I can see why you'd do that but it's the uniqueness of V12VR that is really appealing to me - I don't think the V12 is any quicker round a track but the power & the torque are intoxicating :-)

[MichaelV8V]

jonby said:

but it could be the last V12 of any type with a manual gearbox.......

If the automated gearbox is good enough, I'd be fine with that. When I tried a sportshift 2 I was up and down the gearbox constantly, just to hear the changes

[jonby]

MichaelV8V said:

jonby said:

but it could be the last V12 of any type with a manual gearbox.......

If the automated gearbox is good enough, I'd be fine with that. When I tried a sportshift 2 I was up and down the gearbox constantly, just to hear the changes

automated. not automatic :-)
think it will be a while til we see that with a V12 unfortunately

[ripley500]

DB9 Ian P said:

Mako V12V said:

Do people think there'll only be a £15k basic price increase over the V12V coupe for a 100 production run Roadster!!!! LOL

IF.....there's only going to be 100 then prices will be at least £160k but IMO nearer £175k.

OR.....£150k for a production run of no less than 500 cars.

I think your pricing is going to be closer Mako. If they only build 100 then I think they believe they will be able to charge the extra time will tell!

If they do such a small production run then presumably the costs of type approval will be increased - or will they be able to rely on the work they did for the V12V?

I was quoted by dealer it would be circa £155k - it will be undoubtedly fantastic but given that you can pick up a low mileage coupe for a lot less then it's definitely a heart rather than head decision (but then any AM choice is). For me the attraction of V12V is the torque so a coupe makes more financial sense than roadster as it gives 98% of the buzz for a lot less cash - if I wanted open top AM then a new/nearly new V8VR would be a better proposition than V12VR (unless money was absolutely no object).

[DavidV12V]

I can't say if it will or won't happen, but for what it's worth when I spoke to someone with some knowledge they pointed out that;

a. There's been a test V12VR knocking about for some time (year or so?) doing its stuff etc.
b. The regs are changing in 2012 re: bonnet to engine separation distance - i.e. increasing - which will require engineering changes = £££s
c. At a limited production run, whether the factory likes it or not, of say 25% of coupes (how many ragtop V8Vs are there compared to hardtop?), then the price would need to be > £175k to make money and therefore starting to near other super-car prices (the implication being being that if you're going to spend that kind of money, you could have a ....)

Ergo - won't happen....BUT

That was 2 months ago...Perhaps BS but does anyone know anything about the regulation changes (true or not)...

BTW: Happy with my V12V and listening to Elgar in peace and quiet down the Autobahn....

[George H]

DavidV12V said:

c. At a limited production run, whether the factory likes it or not, of say 25% of coupes (how many ragtop V8Vs are there compared to hardtop?), then the price would need to be > £175k to make money and therefore starting to near other super-car prices (the implication being being that if you're going to spend that kind of money, you could have a ....)

Even if it was over £175k I think it would still sell. Look at the Zagato... £400k and I bet they've sold a fair few of them.

[DavidV12V]

George H said:

DavidV12V said:

c. At a limited production run, whether the factory likes it or not, of say 25% of coupes (how many ragtop V8Vs are there compared to hardtop?), then the price would need to be > £175k to make money and therefore starting to near other super-car prices (the implication being being that if you're going to spend that kind of money, you could have a ....)

Even if it was over £175k I think it would still sell. Look at the Zagato... £400k and I bet they've sold a fair few of them.

Funnily enought - the same guy said the Zagato wasn;t selling!

But - agree - even at £175k they'll sell because they'll be great (and wonderful X 3)

[jonby]

DavidV12V said:

b. The regs are changing in 2012 re: bonnet to engine separation distance - i.e. increasing - which will require engineering changes = £££s
That was 2 months ago...Perhaps BS but does anyone know anything about the regulation changes (true or not)...

The autocar article on VH310 refers to the bonnet having to be much higher in connection with these regs

That's why I don't see a V12 going forward in Vantage and it's eventual replacement

May also explain the small run of V12VR, before regs change

Having said that, plan seems to be for V12VR to be early next yr, not this

[jonby]

DavidV12V said:

[

Funnily enought - the same guy said the Zagato wasn;t selling!

what a surprise ! Order book should have closed on this 6-9 mths ago according to original plan - there is a new launch event for Zag every few weeks which is rather telling - it's simply ridiculously over priced

[jonby]

jonby said:

DavidV12V said:

b. The regs are changing in 2012 re: bonnet to engine separation distance - i.e. increasing - which will require engineering changes = £££s
That was 2 months ago...Perhaps BS but does anyone know anything about the regulation changes (true or not)...

The autocar article on VH310 refers to the bonnet having to be much higher in connection with these regs

That's why I don't see a V12 going forward in Vantage and it's eventual replacement

May also explain the small run of V12VR, before regs change

Having said that, plan seems to be for V12VR to be early next yr, not this

Just found the article - link below. The relevant bit is this

All the V12-engined model VH platform models will feature the raised bonnet line, which is needed to comply with the latest pedestrian protection rules. They demand more clearance above the tall V12, so the DB9 (project VH113), Virage and Rapide will feature it, too.

The Vantage family (VH200) is understood to be unaffected, largely because its dry-sump V8 is mounted lower, which leaves sufficient room above the engine.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-dbs...

[Vantagefan]

jonby said:

The autocar article on VH310 refers to the bonnet having to be much higher in connection with these regs

That's why I don't see a V12 going forward in Vantage and it's eventual replacement

May also explain the small run of V12VR, before regs change

Having said that, plan seems to be for V12VR to be early next yr, not this

I'd like to see an 80's style power bulge coming back due to the regs. I know the current V12V has a slight one.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they released a V12V 'S' 6 months to a year after the 310 using the bigger engine.

[jonby]

Vantagefan said:

jonby said:

The autocar article on VH310 refers to the bonnet having to be much higher in connection with these regs

That's why I don't see a V12 going forward in Vantage and it's eventual replacement

May also explain the small run of V12VR, before regs change

Having said that, plan seems to be for V12VR to be early next yr, not this

I'd like to see an 80's style power bulge coming back due to the regs. I know the current V12V has a slight one.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they released a V12V 'S' 6 months to a year after the 310 using the bigger engine.

Well nothing would surprise me with AM !!! :-)
Out of interest, I know logic has nothing to to with it and I'm about to commit sacrilege here, but does V12V need more power ? I think the V12V is towards the limit of sensible power in that chassis but owners with more road time than me can give a far more informed opinion on this than I can. I appreciate some will buy just because it's the latest/last/best (I include myself in that category !) but as I say, do owners ever find they wish the V12 had more power ? (Yeti, I know yours is a DB9 but still don't answer :-) !!!). I ask this particularly because if you haven't bought a V12V already, I can't see a V12VS then tempting you and existing V12V owners could get the BR manifold system for far less and add what, 40-50bhp on for £5-7kish ?

[yeti]

jonby said:

do owners ever find they wish the V12 had more power ? (Yeti, I know yours is a DB9 but still don't answer :-)

I know I'm not supposed to answer but...

My DB9 has the 450bhp engine, done to probably 480bhp with filter, cats, mapping and backbox. Yes it needs more power for my style of touring driving and the BR inlet manifolds, exhaust manifolds, indiction set up and catalysts should get me up to Vanquish S levels or just beyond. I'll then have the cams fitted, probably close to 540-550bhp? I honestly think that will be enough in the longer wheelbase! The new engine is just for giggles really Depends on circulatsnce though, on the Wales run-out, I doubt I could have used anymore power at any point. On the Monte Carlo trip, a bit more would have been fun.

Would 573bhp be too much in the Vantage chassis..? Depends on the driver, you're not obliged to use it all all of the time of course. For some the 510bhp is too much, for some 600bhp+ will never be enough. I find familiarity breeds contempt though, after a couple of thousand miles behind the wheel through Europe, suddenly you find yourself wanting more as you make more overtakes in shorter distances, catch up to Porsches on the autoroutes and generally get more and more used to the car, cliche aside, it becomes part of you. It's why i drive in Fracne so differently from how I do here, I have been in the car for so long and have become used to it, fear is replaced with (misplaced?) confidence.

If you drive it once a week on a Sunday morning, it's going to be terrifying every time!