V12V Bamford Rose upgrade - cat is out of the bag!!

[johng39]

yeti said:

Have you kept the standard DBS/V12V inlet manifolds or have BR come up with something more exciting? I know they have the design ready to go as it is to be fitted to my 6.5.

We have kept the standard inlets, there was no benefit to be derived and in fact a dis-benefit in their opinion.

[johng39]

UPDATE. UPDATE

Err Mike just pointed out that this is currently still on standard cats. 200 cell cats being fitted Monday now. Expecting 575 bhp bit of confusion between us........

Adam don't dis me, especially if you want me to drive your car

[johng39]

Tony V12V said:

Edited to add...however can you sleep at night in anticipation of Tuesday!!

I won't....

[johng39]

jonby said:

If I understand correctly, the improvement to 565bhp included new cams too ? Still mighty impressive.....

Yep, it is manifolds & cams to get 565bhp. 200 cell cats fitted tomorrow and we are expecting 575bhp, but we will need to wait and see. Also if it is too loud, I may well just stick with the standard cats and ONLY 565 bhp .

However, if the sound is not overly invasive then I guess I can suffer the extra power

Edited by johng39 on Sunday 14th October 17:45

[johng39]

OK, the headline numbers with cats changed surprisingly not as much as anticipated. We expected another 10bhp, but only managed 5 bhp over runs. The only difference is the noise it makes now is slightly louder and deeper, so will post up on youtube a new clip.

The car has maxed out at 570BHP & 600Nm of torque.

So that is it folks, tomorrow I drive it and get to see the graphs that I will post up.

Shame the new Vanquish could only make 565bhp really I will be able to do a back to back test with them both

[johng39]

The Pits said:

570bhp?!



Bonkers.

It will be very close to the original 'V12 Vantage RS' prototype then.

Should be savage.

Would you like someone (ie me!) to come and film it for you?

Could even offer a back to back comparison (maybe side by side would be better!) with my slow old bog standard car!

If you are around tomorrow about 1.00pm, I am picking it up then.

[johng39]

Well having driven back and been fed, I have had time to reflect on the day's events. I will start a thread on the vanquish drive, which was excellent; but that is not what you want to hear.

Well the V12V BR Special, it is absolutely brutal, I am going to call it Lance. It is faster than everyone else and only because it is cheating. This upgrade is just unfair and I urge none of you to do it...... mainly because I am selfish and want the only one.

I have gone for the downgraded and lowly 565BHP with the standard CATS. As I am sure Nick will tell you, the upgraded CATS made it sound like the end of the world. It was a static 112dB and a drive-by 113dB, it would have made my ears bleed after 15 minutes at full chat and so I opted for the slightly quieter 102dB static & 108 dB drive-by. Don't get me wrong, the sound was glorious, it just needs a resonator after the CATS to quieten it a little.

So now it sounds awesome, a nice deep burble and at the top end it sounds not unlike a very angry V8V. It sounds fantastic and I drove all the way down the motorway in loud mode. The first noise hits at 3000RPM and then it rises all the way to 7500RPM.

And does it go, hell yes. The torque at 3,500rpm is 60Nm up on standard and you feel it, this thing pulls like a steam train from nothing all the way. On coldish tyres, 3rd gear was sending the traction light on..... it is brutal, yet smooth all the way to the redline. Warm up the tyres and it is just COSMIC, like being catapulted out of a ............ err catapult. It is not just the amount of torque, but the delivery that just sees the thing take off like a scolded cat, very, very happy with the outcome.

In summary, I believe that for me we have hit the right combination of noise and power, it is truly an awesome soundtrack, very much like a V12V, just louder with that lovely V8V bark at the top end..... perfect for me. The power is what the V12V should have been in the first place, completely brutal. I guess AM couldn't though as it would be known as the widowmaker or as Nick lovingly calls it the Hedge Finder.

So the numbers are below:

[johng39]

AMDBSNick said:

I have been trying to think of something to say for the last 30 mins that Cockerneeeeeee has not already said. I am struggling. It is indeed COSMIC. It really is all about Torque and not just BHP. Our cars aren't exactly sluggish but this upgrade really does make them something very special. I/we have banged on for ages about the manual box being perfect given the available torque and this just makes it better. Perhaps we could replace 3 with D !!!

I only went for a short spin with Mike but the improvement was immediately obvious.

Turning now to the noise. The 200 cell cats were just too bloody loud quite frankly. This is an Aston not an Evo. That said those cats are now second hand and would give me 570 BHP. That would obviously leave Cockerneeeeeee's car unique

So DBS BR with 570BHP. What would I call her. Answers on a post card please

I know what the neighbours would call you and I can't write it here.

[johng39]

Guycord said:

Went to see it last week and update the details. Its being stripped down - dash removed for refurb, head-lining stripped and currently being taken back to bare metal in the next two weeks. Carpet and Black leather to be retained as-is.

Forest Green will be the colour but dont expect to show it until the New Year.

More excited about the V12V right now - just taken it for a blast along the A27 this evening (great roundabouts) and quite frankly, thining that an extra 60-65bhp plus the torque will be.....superb!

Superb......superb. It will be at least EPIC and more likely Cosmic

To be honest Guy, I laughed the whole way home. Not that I don't smile everytime I drive it anyway, just not as wide as I do now. You are going to love it, but if you go for the 200 CATS it is ear splitting. That may be your thing, but for me I could leave it on loud all the way home without needing to play with the switch and it was quiet enough while cruising and fantastic when pressed.

If you ever want to move home, just tie a rope around the car and drag the house wherever you want it next it's that good.

Yeti said:

Brilliant news Cockers glad it's meeti g your needs. Will you get to track it before winter? Goodwood is a terrific place, I'd join you!

Also reminds me I need to call BR and chase up my new engine.

Some Jamie Oliver / Guy Ritchie wannabee in the most powerful Aston? Not for long me old china

Lewis, I am at Snetterton on 18th November driving for charity This will scare the living daylights out of them....

Edited by johng39 on Tuesday 16th October 23:10

[johng39]

Guycord said:

I'll be giving BR a call tomorrow to confirm the dates as I'll be away while the work is being done. However, Mike is aware that I did not want the V12V to be any louder than it currently is i.e. not like Yeti's full-bore exhaust system - which i beleive adds even more power but is significantly louder than original.

I think the package I originally looked for was this (i.e. higher torque/power without the noise):-
Exhaust Manifolds
Cats
Cams raised from 9.8mm to 11.5mm

Looks (sounds) like the Cats stay in the bag!


Rgds

G

without the cats it is louder than standard, but in a good way. With cats. ear splitting, without a beautiful bark at around 3000rpm and then it starts to build to the redline. Yeti's is the better engineered exhaust, no doubt; but expensive and changes the noise significantly.

[johng39]

DavidV12V said:

Blimy - I've been following this with interest and sounds fantastic - those figures are amazing for such "minor" changes and must be great fun. Not being likely to drive your car or sit in it (shame) it'd be good to try to get an understanding of the impact of the changes beyond the numbers. For example, for me the difference from the 4.7 V8 tot he V12 was like going from a BMW 320 to an M3, both in terms of the power, handling, and sense of occasion (if you know what I mean?). How would you compare the difference going from your standard V12V to Lance? Is it just about the power and torque or does it "feel" like a different car?

I did mention to the other half about this and possibility of doing a similar upgrade, perhaps call it Arthur (after Arthur Linton, infamous bicycle drugs fiend from 1896), but she asked "why would you want more power?"

Enough said...

The noise is different, so the senses are given a work over anyway!! Not in a bad way, in a good way. Let's face it the V12V is the hooligan in the AM line-up, it is the snorting angry one that if you don't treat it nicely will rip you limb from limb. So to add more power and torque is just plain crazy, until you drive it that is. Look at the graphs and you will see the biggest difference is the mid-range torque around 3000rpm, it is smooth and more progressive than standard, so it feels like it will accelerate the same in almost any gear all the way to the redline. I took out my 19 year old son yesterday and in 4th gear at 2000rpm I accelerated and the pull was fantastic, he could not believe the difference; it really ticks all of the boxes for me in the overall drivability of the car. Then there were the tunnels on the way home EPIC.

Interestingly I drove a 4.7 V8V yesterday which was great, I went in Nick's DBS and you can feel the difference between the 2 in terms of mid range torque, this adds almost as much again in the mid range and when pressing on, the difference is it's willingness to hit the rev limiter quickly. Not quite the leap from a V8 to a V12 in honesty, but damn good.

My missus said that, just as she was buying a new jacket. I said you already have 10 jackets, but she said that she liked this one ......... Enough said

Edited by johng39 on Wednesday 17th October 09:45

[johng39]

marceltay said:

johng39 said:

I have gone for the downgraded and lowly 565BHP with the standard CATS. As I am sure Nick will tell you, the upgraded CATS made it sound like the end of the world. It was a static 112dB and a drive-by 113dB, it would have made my ears bleed after 15 minutes at full chat and so I opted for the slightly quieter 102dB static & 108 dB drive-by. Don't get me wrong, the sound was glorious, it just needs a resonator after the CATS to quieten it a little.

So now it sounds awesome, a nice deep burble and at the top end it sounds not unlike a very angry V8V. It sounds fantastic and I drove all the way down the motorway in loud mode. The first noise hits at 3000RPM and then it rises all the way to 7500RPM.

Excellent! Guess I should keep my standard cats close by..

Mike, can you put aside my standard cats? Might need to go back to standard cats if/when I decide to get the manifolds replaced.. Thanks!

For me yes. You benefit from the primary cats keeping things quieter. If you have both it is LOUD. You may love it, I did not. Therefore 200 cell cats on standard manifolds = good choice on the BR manifolds = FECKING LOUD. Remember this is only mine and the whole village of Halford's opinion, I think someone in Gloucestershire made a complaint also!!!!!!

[johng39]

mcm66 said:

The previous owner of my DB9 replaced back box with a custom, it's loud, but not to my taste (don't get me wrong, like the loud but just not the note). So the question is, I loved the sound of my previous vanquish, and wouldn't mind getting the valves back to switch noise off at times, any ideas on best options?

Standard back box with 200 cell cats or go the whole hog and have the BR manifolds and a standard back box. Either way it will sound great and you will get some extra horses into the bargain.

[johng39]

Tony V12V said:

Have stopped laughing yet???? Last time I heard that laugh was in the hotel Car Park at Spa ( you know....SPA)when we showed you the pix of what the car park 'vandals' had done

No still laughing

[johng39]

So almost a week on and I have now been able to drive Lance in more situations than flat out country lane and motorway cruising. Yes I have driven it in town and I can report that it behaves itself exactly like the standard car. Starting is as before, cold running (with a lovely crackle on over-run )is as before, so all in all it has turned out a success.

Low speed is un-affected, in fact slightly better on acceleration at around 2,000 rpm as it pulls very well. The tickover is completely un-affected by the changes, I seriously thought that the cams would change the super smooth V12, but I was wrong.

So in summary, it pulls better throughout the rev range, ticks over with a slightly deeper and a tad noisier tone and when you unleash it....... oh yes, it is crazy. The noise is about as loud as I would want it, but the overall drivability has definately been improved. It was difficult for me to say earlier in the week, as I had no experience of the tickover and town driving.

I hope that helps?

Cheers

Cockerneeeeeeeeee

[johng39]

ScottBlack said:

Did the mods affect emissions?

They are within UK MOT guidelines, in fact it will be MOT'd tomorrow. My understanding is that the deletion of primary CATS only affects the start up emissions, that an MOT does not check. I have standard cats in and therefore it has not changed anything in that respect.

Remember the lambda sensors are all retained and these obviously control the emissions (Mike would be the best person to comment)

[johng39]

Tony V12V said:

Rich (CatalystV12V) calls his Daisy - even has DSY in the plate.

But he drives like Miss Daisy

[johng39]

CatalystV12V said:

johng39 said:

Tony V12V said:

Rich (CatalystV12V) calls his Daisy - even has DSY in the plate.

But he drives like Miss Daisy

Oi..... I resemble that remark

Hi Rich

Lets be honest, you did not even make the same train back as me and Tony and we drove slowly. Now I guess you are going to mention some old rubbish about a flat, excuses, excuses!!