A New Bamford Rose Creation In The Wild
Discussion
Ok, this is the story of the latest V12V variant to come out of the lab at Bamford Rose.:-
The journey started late in August when having seen the success of some of the early Converts (Yeti and Pommehogster) for the V12 and V8 units respectively and the fact that the “Beast “ was due for its 3rd birthday and therefore warranty concerns would be a non-issue. Plenty of takers have come forward for the V8 Upgrade but to my knowledge there have only been 3 of us to date who have dipped our toes into the V12 upgrade water; Yeti with his DB9, Cockernee (afka: JohnG39 by deed poll) and myself with the Aston Drivers weapon of choice: The V12 Vantage.
Discussions went back and forth (and most probably simultaneously and independently with Cockernee’s requirements)over a few days with Mike by email relating to Why would anyone need more power/torque in a V12 Vantage and what possible gains if there were?.
So a specification was set:
1.To raise the power/torque configuration of the DBS tuned engine of the V12V to be in a more “usable” operating band i.e. available at lower revs and well below the Redline of the 7500rpm.
2.The sound output was not to be radically different nor louder than the stock V12V
3.That the work would be conducted at BR’s leisure as I would be working overseas and would not be driving the car until Xmas (oh what joy awaits me then with the Corsa’s). Therefore no rush on my part.
4.Deliverables to come with warranty, guarantee that MOT emissions and noise tests would be passed, along with no EM error states.
The challenge with this set of deliverables was until now unique. The exhaust system originally fitted to Yeti’s DB9 returned a much louder exhaust note than standard and can be described as ‘tenor’ because it ‘trumpets’ the exhaust gas out the rear. This exhaust manifold and catalyst system is made without compromise using the best design techniques for primary pipes, collectors and high flow catalysts. However, as no extra noise and more low speed torque was required, the attempted solution followed this suggested package:
1.Exhaust manifold design with primary pipe length revision to target lower speed torque, catalysts repackaged and a slightly costed down collector arrangement. This not just gives better driveable torque than the system fitted to Yeti’s car but returns a ‘baritone’ exhaust note (trombone’s the gas out the rear) because of this, the engine is not ‘as’ tuned with this exhaust configuration at higher speeds.
2.Then, because this exhaust manifold and catalyst revision produces a little less power than the exhaust system fitted to Yeti’s car, it was decided we wanted this back so, the engine would be tuned for high lift longer duration cams (9.8mm lift standard to 11.5mm lift Bamford Rose spec).
3.Both the exhaust and cams upgrade would achieve a good delta increase required but a further and final step was to add-in a long-tract air-inlet manifold system – as per the DB9 which significantly boosts the torque over the short-tract DBS tuned engine found in the V12V.
However, although this configuration delivers serious amounts of torque, it will have a maximum power output of “only and around” 530bhp, some 20bhp more than the standard V12V configuration when complete. This “Torque Pack” configuration (I use “torque pack” because I refuse to call the project a silly camp metrosexual name like “Lance”!) varies the power/torque output somewhat differently than that of Cockernee’s “Lance” V12V in that both power and torque are available much earlier in the rev-range and that to get “rather quick” performance, one does not have to rev the nuts (only one of them in Cockernee's case) of the engine to 7,500rpm to get the most FUN out of that setup.
I have taken the data from a number of projects and combined them onto a smoothed power-torque delivery curve (minimal artistic licence applied) to compare the 4.7V8V in standard factory configuration, with that of a standard V12V, a Peak-Power pack aka “Lance”. The official numbers for the torque Pack will be out later this week when the close-out Dyno tests are complete. The graph shows model performance expectation in red.
The old exhaust manifold is show here (courtesy of earlier BR publications) and shows what a heap of junk the OEM part is.
Similarly, here is a now stock picture of the new exhaust manifolds which can only be described as a work of art.
The Long-tract inlet manifold, powder-coated to V12V colour specification. Must say not as cool looking as the DBS tuned one, but then it does its job and you hardly see it.
Performance ReportNo.1
These comments are based on Mikes experiences - unfortunately, I’m travelling/working overseas at present so I’m going have to take mikes comments just like everyone else.
So this is how it is described to me:-
• Press the loud pedal and the “Beast” goes into full “Lance” mode.... Wow..!
• Another factory standard V12V car was in for work and on completion a road test was undertaken back to back. The difference is said to be simply worlds apart.....!
• The torque curve and power delivery is totally different to “Lance”, but for owners that want low speed torque and the wow-factor that this brings at engine speeds sub 5000rpm when the peddle is prodded, what we have is the right package for this. “Lance” does have more top end power (but nowhere near the low speed torque of the Beast) but this is only of use if the owner wishes to wring the engines neck up to 7,500 rpm.
• If you prod the pedal a bit more and have it in sports mode now, the car can “Vector” from left to right like a spooked stallion trying to flip his rider off his back. But, traction control keeps her on the straight and narrow - an error state driveability problem is not introduced.
My anticipation here is that for Owners who have moved from the 4.7L V8V, to the Factory stock V12V, all know what a huge step-up that it is in terms of the torque and the perception of making progress very quickly (and loads more fun). The graph above would indicate that I am going to get to almost experience huge step-all in power/torque delivery all over again.
The next part of the Project brief was a very exacting requirement that although I have one of the coolest cars on the road, I don’t want to sound like a tosser with a chav’ed-up exhaust blurting out everywhere, particularly when one is in the V12V’s natural hunting ground of the Sunday lunch-time hoon on the highways and byways of this green and pleasant land.
I know many of you like to remove Fuse 22 and all that but in my mind, AM do a very nice job as it is and it is well worth the read-on to see what can be doneon this front at BR:-
For noise reduction Bamford have gone to town in terms of achieving the customers’ needs and developing a very specific and customisable sound package for my V12V.The remit as per at the start of this thread was that sound output was not to be radically different nor louder than the stock V12V.
Measurements were takenby BR for the factory standard car at the start with valve open and valve closed conditions, both from a static and drive-by combination.
Options were given:-
1. Sports mode button is OFF, the exhaust note is whisper, whisper quiet at all times, but when sports mode button is active, opens to a louder output
2. Noise commensurate with power output (loud than standard) or ,
3. In additional to whisper, whisper quiet in normal mode, the same can be done even when in sports mode as to curtail the exhaust noise.
To meet expectations BR had to deliver sound around these factors;
• Engine performance is inherently reduced above 5,500 rpm if the valves are not opened.
• Even though the torque output is now significantly increased, ‘Sports’ mode brings yet another grin factor element above ‘normal’ mode thus dictate sound output settings.
• The sound without resonator between 3,000-5,000 rpm is obtrusively loud when valves are open.
• The sound without resonator and valves closed up to 5,500 rpm is whisper quiet.
• The sound above 5,500rpm valves open is loud but not obtrusive and is commensurate with the sound the car should make with the performance upgrade it has had. It does not significantly exceed the dB recorded before the car was modified.
A possible solution without resonator is valves closed up to 5,500 rpm in normal mode, and open above 5,500rpm.
In ‘Sport’ mode valves open up to 2,000rpm (to give that burble but no volume when driving at low speeds), valves then close between 2,000rpm and 5,500rpm and, valve then open above 5,500rpm. The trick with this strategy is a seamless transition between each valve state without exhaust note going from burble to quite to loud (we need to avoid a non-linear rise of exhaust note/volume as that just sounds bad).The trick with a resonator is to achieve the volume required but maintain note quality.
Silencers/resonators in the intermediate pipes were tried but Mike was not happy with the results, so the next option but more difficult to construct than a simple silencer box in the intermediate pipes was to have a unique one-off custom-made silencer incorporated into the Cats and is not of a design found anywhere else for Aston's. The hope here for BR is that this solution can be taken up by Owners in future as the brief of more performance but with no extra noise (like myself) will likely be a common one.
The picture below is of the updated Cats with integral silencersand do the job of sound reduction without power reduction. They also look great as well. The Cat with incorporated silencer is pictured next to the normal high flow Cat for comparison.
Looking into the front of the cat the catalyst matrix can be seen, looking into the rear the silencer arrangement can be seen with exit of the catalyst in the background.
I hope you have all enjoyed this little read. It has been an interesting journey which is not quite finished just yet and one where Mike and his team at BR have been outstanding in terms of getting on with the job and providing what is essentially a bespoke service. What I can’t do now is give you all the “Big Grin” comment on what all the changes feel like because I have not driven the car yet. I’m stuck in a dump of a place some over 6000 miles due south of London and will not have that pleasure until Xmas.
So this project - one where a £100k car was delivered to BR and Mike at the end of October has been conducted almost 100% remotely; A brief exchanged by email and confirmed with a quick chat over the phone and that is it. A car delivered with an enhanced set of lungs but also without destroying the factory burble that beautiful V12 makes. It will also comeback to me with a new PAS pump as the original one was identified as on its last legs which the AM service guys failed to pick up on the last service (but that is another story).
So many thanks to Mike and your team for the professionalism, dedication and attention to your customer’s needs! I look forward to enjoying the Beast in the good weather next year and perhaps refresh my memory of what these machines can do once on a track.
Cheers! Thanks for reading!
The journey started late in August when having seen the success of some of the early Converts (Yeti and Pommehogster) for the V12 and V8 units respectively and the fact that the “Beast “ was due for its 3rd birthday and therefore warranty concerns would be a non-issue. Plenty of takers have come forward for the V8 Upgrade but to my knowledge there have only been 3 of us to date who have dipped our toes into the V12 upgrade water; Yeti with his DB9, Cockernee (afka: JohnG39 by deed poll) and myself with the Aston Drivers weapon of choice: The V12 Vantage.
Discussions went back and forth (and most probably simultaneously and independently with Cockernee’s requirements)over a few days with Mike by email relating to Why would anyone need more power/torque in a V12 Vantage and what possible gains if there were?.
So a specification was set:
1.To raise the power/torque configuration of the DBS tuned engine of the V12V to be in a more “usable” operating band i.e. available at lower revs and well below the Redline of the 7500rpm.
2.The sound output was not to be radically different nor louder than the stock V12V
3.That the work would be conducted at BR’s leisure as I would be working overseas and would not be driving the car until Xmas (oh what joy awaits me then with the Corsa’s). Therefore no rush on my part.
4.Deliverables to come with warranty, guarantee that MOT emissions and noise tests would be passed, along with no EM error states.
The challenge with this set of deliverables was until now unique. The exhaust system originally fitted to Yeti’s DB9 returned a much louder exhaust note than standard and can be described as ‘tenor’ because it ‘trumpets’ the exhaust gas out the rear. This exhaust manifold and catalyst system is made without compromise using the best design techniques for primary pipes, collectors and high flow catalysts. However, as no extra noise and more low speed torque was required, the attempted solution followed this suggested package:
1.Exhaust manifold design with primary pipe length revision to target lower speed torque, catalysts repackaged and a slightly costed down collector arrangement. This not just gives better driveable torque than the system fitted to Yeti’s car but returns a ‘baritone’ exhaust note (trombone’s the gas out the rear) because of this, the engine is not ‘as’ tuned with this exhaust configuration at higher speeds.
2.Then, because this exhaust manifold and catalyst revision produces a little less power than the exhaust system fitted to Yeti’s car, it was decided we wanted this back so, the engine would be tuned for high lift longer duration cams (9.8mm lift standard to 11.5mm lift Bamford Rose spec).
3.Both the exhaust and cams upgrade would achieve a good delta increase required but a further and final step was to add-in a long-tract air-inlet manifold system – as per the DB9 which significantly boosts the torque over the short-tract DBS tuned engine found in the V12V.
However, although this configuration delivers serious amounts of torque, it will have a maximum power output of “only and around” 530bhp, some 20bhp more than the standard V12V configuration when complete. This “Torque Pack” configuration (I use “torque pack” because I refuse to call the project a silly camp metrosexual name like “Lance”!) varies the power/torque output somewhat differently than that of Cockernee’s “Lance” V12V in that both power and torque are available much earlier in the rev-range and that to get “rather quick” performance, one does not have to rev the nuts (only one of them in Cockernee's case) of the engine to 7,500rpm to get the most FUN out of that setup.
I have taken the data from a number of projects and combined them onto a smoothed power-torque delivery curve (minimal artistic licence applied) to compare the 4.7V8V in standard factory configuration, with that of a standard V12V, a Peak-Power pack aka “Lance”. The official numbers for the torque Pack will be out later this week when the close-out Dyno tests are complete. The graph shows model performance expectation in red.
The old exhaust manifold is show here (courtesy of earlier BR publications) and shows what a heap of junk the OEM part is.
Similarly, here is a now stock picture of the new exhaust manifolds which can only be described as a work of art.
The Long-tract inlet manifold, powder-coated to V12V colour specification. Must say not as cool looking as the DBS tuned one, but then it does its job and you hardly see it.
Performance ReportNo.1
These comments are based on Mikes experiences - unfortunately, I’m travelling/working overseas at present so I’m going have to take mikes comments just like everyone else.
So this is how it is described to me:-
• Press the loud pedal and the “Beast” goes into full “Lance” mode.... Wow..!
• Another factory standard V12V car was in for work and on completion a road test was undertaken back to back. The difference is said to be simply worlds apart.....!
• The torque curve and power delivery is totally different to “Lance”, but for owners that want low speed torque and the wow-factor that this brings at engine speeds sub 5000rpm when the peddle is prodded, what we have is the right package for this. “Lance” does have more top end power (but nowhere near the low speed torque of the Beast) but this is only of use if the owner wishes to wring the engines neck up to 7,500 rpm.
• If you prod the pedal a bit more and have it in sports mode now, the car can “Vector” from left to right like a spooked stallion trying to flip his rider off his back. But, traction control keeps her on the straight and narrow - an error state driveability problem is not introduced.
My anticipation here is that for Owners who have moved from the 4.7L V8V, to the Factory stock V12V, all know what a huge step-up that it is in terms of the torque and the perception of making progress very quickly (and loads more fun). The graph above would indicate that I am going to get to almost experience huge step-all in power/torque delivery all over again.
The next part of the Project brief was a very exacting requirement that although I have one of the coolest cars on the road, I don’t want to sound like a tosser with a chav’ed-up exhaust blurting out everywhere, particularly when one is in the V12V’s natural hunting ground of the Sunday lunch-time hoon on the highways and byways of this green and pleasant land.
I know many of you like to remove Fuse 22 and all that but in my mind, AM do a very nice job as it is and it is well worth the read-on to see what can be doneon this front at BR:-
For noise reduction Bamford have gone to town in terms of achieving the customers’ needs and developing a very specific and customisable sound package for my V12V.The remit as per at the start of this thread was that sound output was not to be radically different nor louder than the stock V12V.
Measurements were takenby BR for the factory standard car at the start with valve open and valve closed conditions, both from a static and drive-by combination.
Options were given:-
1. Sports mode button is OFF, the exhaust note is whisper, whisper quiet at all times, but when sports mode button is active, opens to a louder output
2. Noise commensurate with power output (loud than standard) or ,
3. In additional to whisper, whisper quiet in normal mode, the same can be done even when in sports mode as to curtail the exhaust noise.
To meet expectations BR had to deliver sound around these factors;
• Engine performance is inherently reduced above 5,500 rpm if the valves are not opened.
• Even though the torque output is now significantly increased, ‘Sports’ mode brings yet another grin factor element above ‘normal’ mode thus dictate sound output settings.
• The sound without resonator between 3,000-5,000 rpm is obtrusively loud when valves are open.
• The sound without resonator and valves closed up to 5,500 rpm is whisper quiet.
• The sound above 5,500rpm valves open is loud but not obtrusive and is commensurate with the sound the car should make with the performance upgrade it has had. It does not significantly exceed the dB recorded before the car was modified.
A possible solution without resonator is valves closed up to 5,500 rpm in normal mode, and open above 5,500rpm.
In ‘Sport’ mode valves open up to 2,000rpm (to give that burble but no volume when driving at low speeds), valves then close between 2,000rpm and 5,500rpm and, valve then open above 5,500rpm. The trick with this strategy is a seamless transition between each valve state without exhaust note going from burble to quite to loud (we need to avoid a non-linear rise of exhaust note/volume as that just sounds bad).The trick with a resonator is to achieve the volume required but maintain note quality.
Silencers/resonators in the intermediate pipes were tried but Mike was not happy with the results, so the next option but more difficult to construct than a simple silencer box in the intermediate pipes was to have a unique one-off custom-made silencer incorporated into the Cats and is not of a design found anywhere else for Aston's. The hope here for BR is that this solution can be taken up by Owners in future as the brief of more performance but with no extra noise (like myself) will likely be a common one.
The picture below is of the updated Cats with integral silencersand do the job of sound reduction without power reduction. They also look great as well. The Cat with incorporated silencer is pictured next to the normal high flow Cat for comparison.
Looking into the front of the cat the catalyst matrix can be seen, looking into the rear the silencer arrangement can be seen with exit of the catalyst in the background.
I hope you have all enjoyed this little read. It has been an interesting journey which is not quite finished just yet and one where Mike and his team at BR have been outstanding in terms of getting on with the job and providing what is essentially a bespoke service. What I can’t do now is give you all the “Big Grin” comment on what all the changes feel like because I have not driven the car yet. I’m stuck in a dump of a place some over 6000 miles due south of London and will not have that pleasure until Xmas.
So this project - one where a £100k car was delivered to BR and Mike at the end of October has been conducted almost 100% remotely; A brief exchanged by email and confirmed with a quick chat over the phone and that is it. A car delivered with an enhanced set of lungs but also without destroying the factory burble that beautiful V12 makes. It will also comeback to me with a new PAS pump as the original one was identified as on its last legs which the AM service guys failed to pick up on the last service (but that is another story).
So many thanks to Mike and your team for the professionalism, dedication and attention to your customer’s needs! I look forward to enjoying the Beast in the good weather next year and perhaps refresh my memory of what these machines can do once on a track.
Cheers! Thanks for reading!
Edited by Guycord on Sunday 25th November 17:44
Edited by Guycord on Sunday 25th November 17:48
Cockernee said:
Very interesting read Guy.
I struggle with grip on both warm corsas or the winter tyre option (fitted today) so I thinkyyouwwillssee the traction light flashing often...... I look forward to a back to back next year
I look forward to seeing both of you disappearing in my rearview mirror next year I struggle with grip on both warm corsas or the winter tyre option (fitted today) so I thinkyyouwwillssee the traction light flashing often...... I look forward to a back to back next year
I all seriousness, it sounds fantastic and I hope it's as good to drive as it looks with those painted bonnet vents. The beauty of the BR mods is they really can tune individual cars to individual requirements. I merely wish to be able to destroy anything should I choose to, Cockers needs a getaway car for his blags and you want something that can pull a block of flats down at 4000rpm. Horses for courses.
Hope you get some dry days to try it out, are you sticking with Corsas for the winter?
VERY well put together and interesting read Guy 
Nice move by BR on silencing the sport cats, which I know Cockernee found just a little too intrusive. Will be looking forward to your thoughts/experience with the Torque Pack on your return.
My warranty is out in the middle of next year
so plenty of time to consider 
Nice move by BR on silencing the sport cats, which I know Cockernee found just a little too intrusive. Will be looking forward to your thoughts/experience with the Torque Pack on your return.
My warranty is out in the middle of next year
so plenty of time to consider A great write up.
I saw you car whilst it was still awaiting the sports cat silencers to be fitted, when I dropped my V8V off last week. You will be pleased to know your car is looking fantastic and the quality of workmanship is superb. You can look forward to a great Christmas when you get home.
I saw you car whilst it was still awaiting the sports cat silencers to be fitted, when I dropped my V8V off last week. You will be pleased to know your car is looking fantastic and the quality of workmanship is superb. You can look forward to a great Christmas when you get home.
took my DB9 Vol into BR today for 3 yr service, clear rear lights, OBD wipers and beam blades, warranty repair list and rear shear panel addition (good advice Yeti). Mike and Adrian very helpful. Tempted by the 'Torque upgrade' to 520-530 bhp and 600Nm and DBS steering rack so need to speak to Santa about that for the New Year. It really is amazing what these guys can do, mentioned to Adrian that I wanted a bit more click and heavier feel on the paddle action like my previous Vanquish S and he said sure he can do that with a bunch of bits he might have, plus he spotted and agreed to touch up a stone chip on front wing which missed the bloody clear-bra thing and is also fixing my kerbed wheel as part of a job lot to keep the cost down. What's great is that they want to discuss your car and how you want to maintain and improve it rather than feel like you are just contributing to a service manager's financial target. anyway all good so far. Mike said they were just finishing off your car Guycord too.
mike
mike
The Pits said:
I'm guessing but those original manifolds look super heavy. is there a weight saving with the BR manifolds?
Those BR Manifolds are stock DB9 Manifolds. I doubt there is much weight difference between those on the DBS/V12V (short-tract + DBS Engine tune = 510bhp top-end power) and those on the DB9 manifold (long-tract + DBS Engine tune = 530ish bhp + silly torque)
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