New partner confirmed

[AdamV12V]

Now on the BBC also, with a short interview from David Richards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20640529

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 7th December 13:24

[Riccardino]

Shmee said:

What's the connection between Investindustrial and Mercedes/AMG? (Sorry, probably a basic question!)

I would also like to understand that also because most of the post here are related to that

maestronakagata said:

Investindustrial is owned primarily by Bi-Invest S. A., a company owned and directed by members of the Italian family Bonomi. They did a good job with Ducati, "with heart, and respect for the heritage", so I think that - altough it may seem funny in some way that an Italian-owned company buys a British sportcars manufacturer - they will do de same with AM.

Agreed

Also there are still a lot of Italians who also like british cars

[maestronakagata]

Riccardino said:

Agreed

Also there are still a lot of Italians who also like british cars

[LordBretSinclair]

Riccardino said:

Also there are still a lot of Italians who also like british cars

And some who don't

"Your car?. . . . . . pretty car"

[jonby]

GPM3D said:

George29 said:

that's who I wanted to get it. Can't wait for the AMG technology to start appearing. Lets hope they start with the AMG Speedshift DCT gearbox!

I recently sold my Vantage and replaced that, and my daily driver with a MB C63 Black Series. The car is epic! If AM do manage to fit the engine and gearbox combination into the next series of Vantage cars, the result will be fantastic!
The AMG speedshift is light years ahead of the automated box fitted to the V8V - and with 510 bhp + oodles of torque; what a car that would be!
Graham

IIRC, speedshift comes in 3 flavours - torque convertor, 'MCT' (multi clutch) and 'DCT' (dual clutch) - earlier C63 used the torque convertor version and again, IIRC, the 2012 model uses the MCT. SLS uses the DCT. I don't recall reading any reviews of the MCT

[Shmee]

Riccardino said:

Shmee said:

What's the connection between Investindustrial and Mercedes/AMG? (Sorry, probably a basic question!)

I would also like to understand that also because most of the post here are related to that

Yep, and all the reports I'm seeing are not suggesting that any agreement has been made between Aston and Merc.

[yeti]

Riccardino said:

Shmee said:

What's the connection between Investindustrial and Mercedes/AMG? (Sorry, probably a basic question!)

I would also like to understand that also because most of the post here are related to that

There was some Mercedes engineering expertise involved with their ownership of Ducati. Also in the original bidding phase, they claimed to be bring Merc/AMG tech, hence being the PH owners favoured bid over a third-world tractor firm!

More than one Euro 'city' type on here has said that the InvestInductrial bid is heavily backed my Daimler-Benz as well, they just want to keep it under wraps, possibly to save face in case of failure...

That's what I heard anyway...

[Shmee]

Sounds good to me!

[Riccardino]

yeti said:

There was some Mercedes engineering expertise involved with their ownership of Ducati. Also in the original bidding phase, they claimed to be bring Merc/AMG tech, hence being the PH owners favoured bid over a third-world tractor firm!

More than one Euro 'city' type on here has said that the InvestInductrial bid is heavily backed my Daimler-Benz as well, they just want to keep it under wraps, possibly to save face in case of failure...

That's what I heard anyway...

Thanks for the clarification

PS: anyway I am very happy that now Aston is a little bit Italian

[George29]

GPM3D said:

I recently sold my Vantage and replaced that, and my daily driver with a MB C63 Black Series. The car is epic! If AM do manage to fit the engine and gearbox combination into the next series of Vantage cars, the result will be fantastic!
The AMG speedshift is light years ahead of the automated box fitted to the V8V - and with 510 bhp + oodles of torque; what a car that would be!
Graham

I think the C63 Black has the 7G-Tronic gearbox doesn't it? Not the double clutch Speedshift DCT?

Mind you, even with the 7G-Tronic I bet it's immense to drive.

[XXXAngelXXX]

@ Yeti : that is it exactly btw we swabians where involved in the deal

[steveatesh]

To any of you engineering, more nowledgeable types on motor car development, how long would it take for a deal I,e this to start materialising in actual vehicle improvement in the showroom?

[mikey k]

GPM3D said:

I recently sold my Vantage and replaced that, and my daily driver with a MB C63 Black Series. The car is epic! If AM do manage to fit the engine and gearbox combination into the next series of Vantage cars, the result will be fantastic!
The AMG speedshift is light years ahead of the automated box fitted to the V8V - and with 510 bhp + oodles of torque; what a car that would be!
Graham

Hi Graham
I wondered what you changed to, nice choice!
Back on topic if the MB involvement is as high as people intimate AM will get some great technology
Lets just hope they also keep the character

[BamfordMike]

steveatesh said:

To any of you engineering, more nowledgeable types on motor car development, how long would it take for a deal I,e this to start materialising in actual vehicle improvement in the showroom?

Great question which is easy to answer in short, but the many potential scenarios that could pan out from a collaboration (if it is on the cards here or not) means it is difficult to say what tech could end up in a future car and when by.

Generally, if an auto maker were to take anothers engine, gearbox and electronic systems and 'copy / paste' into their product; the upfront package and CAD work, first prototype build and functionality checks, engine ECU tweaks, transmission ECU tweaks, hot trials, cold trials, OBD verification with each in market durability / system robustness compliance tests, whole vehicle durability sign off tests (in astons case many laps around Nurburgring), crash testing, vehicle certification, the production line gearing up to change manage new model introduction, the press launch and finally, the slow ramp for production to make cars for volume sales <and breath>.... Means nothing in the showrooms earlier than 2016 is the reality.

From back of a fag packet to V8 and DB9 models in showrooms was about 4 years. Because it is likely (due to age) that new models the chassis will be new, the powertrain new, electronics new and interior new, a time of less than 4 years is unrealistic again. I guess 2016 here and take a year off becasue the production facility is not new.

This deal sounds like it has the potential to make some great product, and let's hope so..!

Edited by BamfordMike on Saturday 8th December 22:02

[MaverickV12]

Bamford. Do you think they will phase out the V12 in favour of a V8?

Can you envisage a Vantage V6 in the future?

Correct me if i'm incorrect, but have not AMG made their engines all smaller and turbo'ed them?

[steveatesh]

BamfordMike said:

Great question which is easy to answer in short, but the many potential scenarios that could pan out from a collaboration (if it is on the cards here or not) means it is difficult to say what tech could end up in a future car and when by.

Generally, if an auto maker were to take anothers engine, gearbox and electronic systems and 'copy / paste' into their product; the upfront package and CAD work, first prototype build and functionality checks, engine ECU tweaks, transmission ECU tweaks, hot trials, cold trials, OBD verification with each in market durability / system robustness compliance tests, whole vehicle durability sign off tests (in astons case many laps around Nurburgring), crash testing, vehicle certification, the production line gearing up to change manage new model introduction, the press launch and finally, the slow ramp for production to make cars for volume sales <and breath>.... Means nothing in the showrooms earlier than 2016 is the reality.

From back of a fag packet to V8 and DB9 models in showrooms was about 4 years. Because it is likely (due to age) that new models the chassis will be new, the powertrain new, electronics new and interior new, a time of less than 4 years is unrealistic again. I guess 2016 here and take a year off becasue the production facility is not new.

This deal sounds like it has the potential to make some great product, and let's hope so..!

Edited by BamfordMike on Saturday 8th December 22:02

Thats great Mike, I'd better get saving!

[stevewushu]

I would LOVE my vantage to have a 6.2 V8!

[BamfordMike]

MaverickV12 said:

Bamford. Do you think they will phase out the V12 in favour of a V8?

Can you envisage a Vantage V6 in the future?

Correct me if i'm incorrect, but have not AMG made their engines all smaller and turbo'ed them?

First question no, but my answer would be yes if other way around...!
Aston's are special, nothing special about a v6 motor so i dont think so on that one....

You are correct, mostly every man and his dog has been downsizing, pressure charging and using direct injection tech to see themselves through current and future legislation. Next year will even see some exciting hybrid supercars.

If i were a betting man i would say V12 Vanquish II motor would go into Vantage chassis ASAP and then a downsized pressure charged version of the current V12 will replace it in the future for all models.

They might look at a bought in motor for a new 'baby' Aston chassis, but the 80-150£k sector that car would occupy is hellishly competitive from makers who have made great strides in the last few years where aston has been somewhat stagnant. Meaning they need to take two evolutionary paces forward at next model upgrade stage which is a tall order - big development spend. So, I bet they knock the less lucrative 'baby aston' market on the head altogether and concentrate on V12 'halo' cars pitched in the £150k plus sector. I reckon this because taking the simplistic view that 7 years of Vantage production has seemingly not resulted in bulging coffers to develop new product, the spend to create and the reward returned from future car in that sector is of questionable short / medium term worth. Vantage 'S' is a phenomenal Sports car, it just isn't selling in the numbers it needs. We are all Aston nuts on this forum and we are not kidding ourselves saying it is a great sports car, it is and we love it, but it just isn't appealing to the masses....

Who knows what will happen, but based on the fact the competition is so tough, any new aston will have to be fantastic for them to survive - which means what is to come must be a fantastic model range.... happy days.

[George29]

BamfordMike said:

Generally, if an auto maker were to take anothers engine, gearbox and electronic systems and 'copy / paste' into their product; the upfront package and CAD work....

Mike, do you know what CAD software do Aston Martin use?

I know Mercedes/Daimler Group have recently changed from Catia to NX. I know a couple of people who were offered contract jobs at Aston Martin mid last year, so I can only presume they use NX/Unigraphics?

[Speedraser]

Jon39 said:

'Investindustrial is investing 150 million pounds ($241 million) in Aston Martin in the form of a capital increase, said the British car-maker on Friday.

The British company said the deal gave the group an enterprise value of 780 million pounds, compared to a value of 630 million pounds prior to the agreement.'

Why do people feel compelled to state the obvious?
I hope they don't think their customers are incapable of adding 150 to 630.

Anyway, it does appear good news for AML. A pure investor would not put money in and expect a financial return, so hopefully this is being done with heart, and respect for the heritage.

Here's hoping (and praying).

BTW, Yeti you're NOT alone -- 3 pedals and a gear lever for me, every time.