New partner confirmed
Discussion
ds2000 said:
Well unless I'm mistaken all the current engines come from Cologne.....
Well, that doesn't make it a 'German' engine. It is a Ford/Cosworth designed engine (Brit/American) that happens to be assembled in Cologne since that is where the Ford's engine plant is located. The location of the assembly is not the issue, it is the provenance of the design of the powerplant that determines 'what' it is. That's the way I see it.
That engine is unique to Aston and is used on no other car. Using an MB engine would not, and therefore that would be the end of any desire on my part to own an Aston.
Riccardino said:
said that 10 times before...DB9VolanteDriver said:
ds2000 said:
Well unless I'm mistaken all the current engines come from Cologne.....
Well, that doesn't make it a 'German' engine. It is a Ford/Cosworth designed engine (Brit/American) that happens to be assembled in Cologne since that is where the Ford's engine plant is located. The location of the assembly is not the issue, it is the provenance of the design of the powerplant that determines 'what' it is. That's the way I see it.
That engine is unique to Aston and is used on no other car. Using an MB engine would not, and therefore that would be the end of any desire on my part to own an Aston.
Zod said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
ds2000 said:
Well unless I'm mistaken all the current engines come from Cologne.....
Well, that doesn't make it a 'German' engine. It is a Ford/Cosworth designed engine (Brit/American) that happens to be assembled in Cologne since that is where the Ford's engine plant is located. The location of the assembly is not the issue, it is the provenance of the design of the powerplant that determines 'what' it is. That's the way I see it.
That engine is unique to Aston and is used on no other car. Using an MB engine would not, and therefore that would be the end of any desire on my part to own an Aston.
But the engine?! That is the heart and soul of the car. Can you imagine a Ferrari without a Ferrari designed engine? No? Neither can I. Just as I can't imagine an Aston without an Aston designed and/or unique engine.
Sorry, an Aston with an MB engine is a non starter and truly would be the beginning of the end (or perhaps the end of the end) for the brand.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Nope. To even suggest that the gearbox and brakes are in the same category of importance as the engine is what is 'bizarre'. Probably no car manufacturer makes their on GB or brakes. The same goes for many other subcomponents.
But the engine?! That is the heart and soul of the car. Can you imagine a Ferrari without a Ferrari designed engine? No? Neither can I. Just as I can't imagine an Aston without an Aston designed and/or unique engine.
Sorry, an Aston with an MB engine is a non starter and truly would be the beginning of the end (or perhaps the end of the end) for the brand.
I disagree with your conclusion on several levels. If AM did use AMG engines, I very much doubt that they would be "out of the crate" to drop straight in. Having said that, it would be no bad thing as the AM engines are dreadfully inefficient in every respect.But the engine?! That is the heart and soul of the car. Can you imagine a Ferrari without a Ferrari designed engine? No? Neither can I. Just as I can't imagine an Aston without an Aston designed and/or unique engine.
Sorry, an Aston with an MB engine is a non starter and truly would be the beginning of the end (or perhaps the end of the end) for the brand.
Personally, an AM with AMG based / derived / out the box engine would make the brand much more attractive.
Would all these people who wouldn't buy an Aston with a Merc engine not have a Pagani either? Or a Lotus because they use Toyota engines? What about a Morgan or a Wiesman with the BMW engine? I doubt any are less special because they don't have their own engines. Probably more reliable than if they had their own engines though!
It's not as if they would potentially stick an engine in that wouldn't suit an Aston (like if they stuck a high revving V6 in for example). The 6.2 V8 would suit the Aston perfectly imo.
It's not as if they would potentially stick an engine in that wouldn't suit an Aston (like if they stuck a high revving V6 in for example). The 6.2 V8 would suit the Aston perfectly imo.
George29 said:
Would all these people who wouldn't buy an Aston with a Merc engine not have a Pagani either? Or a Lotus because they use Toyota engines? What about a Morgan or a Wiesman with the BMW engine? I doubt any are less special because they don't have their own engines. Probably more reliable than if they had their own engines though!
It's not as if they would potentially stick an engine in that wouldn't suit an Aston (like if they stuck a high revving V6 in for example). The 6.2 V8 would suit the Aston perfectly imo.
Apples/oranges. A Pagani is so much more than the engine, so in that case, not a problem to use someone's engine. Same with these other little boutique brands you mention.It's not as if they would potentially stick an engine in that wouldn't suit an Aston (like if they stuck a high revving V6 in for example). The 6.2 V8 would suit the Aston perfectly imo.
Astons have always had Aston engines, same with Ferrari. Did Lotus ever have a Lotus engine, or has it always been someone else's engine from day one? To me, that's the issue. I would also never buy a BMW with an MB engine, or an MB with a BMW engine.
If the car brand started with its own bespoke engine, then it needs to continue with its own design.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Apples/oranges. A Pagani is so much more than the engine, so in that case, not a problem to use someone's engine. Same with these other little boutique brands you mention.
Astons have always had Aston engines, same with Ferrari. Did Lotus ever have a Lotus engine, or has it always been someone else's engine from day one? To me, that's the issue. I would also never buy a BMW with an MB engine, or an MB with a BMW engine.
If the car brand started with its own bespoke engine, then it needs to continue with its own design.
I'm with George on this one.Astons have always had Aston engines, same with Ferrari. Did Lotus ever have a Lotus engine, or has it always been someone else's engine from day one? To me, that's the issue. I would also never buy a BMW with an MB engine, or an MB with a BMW engine.
If the car brand started with its own bespoke engine, then it needs to continue with its own design.
Lotus used to build their own engines. Until they ran out of money and nearly went bust (on numerous occasions). http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EHistory/Lotusownp...
BMW started off with Austin engines! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:BMW_motor_ve...
And as we all know, the current Aston engines are both from the then Ford stable. The V8 is a development of a Jaguar block whilst the V12 contains Ford Duratec technology.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Astons have always had Aston engines, same with Ferrari. Did Lotus ever have a Lotus engine, or has it always been someone else's engine from day one?
Actually one could argue the opposite. My DB MkIII has a Lagonda engine designed by WO Bentley. Obviously David Brown bought Lagonda but is that any different to the current inverstors providing a supply of engines? Equally one could argue that the current V12 owes much of it's existance to Ford's ownership. Is it a Ford engine or even two Ford engines, the argument has been made but again it's a fine line between what's an Aston engine and one which owes it's existance ownership and other investors. Personally I don't see the problem. RichB said:
Actually one could argue the opposite. My DB MkIII has a Lagonda engine designed by WO Bentley. Obviously David Brown bought Lagonda but is that any different to the current inverstors providing a supply of engines? Equally one could argue that the current V12 owes much of it's existance to Ford's ownership. Is it a Ford engine or even two Ford engines, the argument has been made but again it's a fine line between what's an Aston engine and one which owes it's existance ownership and other investors. Personally I don't see the problem.
Let's not go back 100 years, shall we? The V12 engine may have Ford parameters in its design and owe its very existence to Ford, but it certainly is not a Ford engine. Point to its use anywhere but in an Aston. That's what makes it an Aston bespoke motor. If MB were to supply an engine, it'd be just another AMG powerplant. And no one could possibly claim that it was an Aston motor, no matter what badge was placed on it.You may think an Aston with an AMG V8 in it is OK, but I don't. So while many current owners would continue with the marque, some wouldn't.
Out of interest, found out today the Aston Martin SatNav is the Volvo unit from Sweden ....... only its not ......... its a Mitsubishi Unit from Japan 
Its a ........ MITSUBISHI .......
Is anything in the Aston English ? Surely something must be made here .......
Please Please Please, can someone please tell me what on the Aston Martin current range is made, (actually MADE) in England - or even the UK for that matter, but really England.
Its a ........ MITSUBISHI .......
Is anything in the Aston English ? Surely something must be made here .......
Please Please Please, can someone please tell me what on the Aston Martin current range is made, (actually MADE) in England - or even the UK for that matter, but really England.
As was said by others, the engine is the heart and soul of a car. No car company (as far as I know) now makes its own gearboxes or differentials and, except during the very early history of the car, almost no one has (ironic, perhaps, that David Brown owned AM). Same story for brakes, clutches, wheels, etc. However, essentially all of the high-end car companies make, or used to make, their own engines. Morgan has never used its own engine. Lotus didn’t use its own engines until it had been around for a very long time (and it no longer does). The engine in the Pagani is built by AMG exclusively for Pagani (I don’t know just how different it is from other AMG V12s). Also, Pagani is a very new car company and has never used its own engines – in contrast to Aston Martin.
I have no problem with AM engines “owing their existence to” Ford. The current AM V12 is, as has been mentioned, used only by Aston Martin – it is a unique, dedicated AM engine. The V8 is “based” on the Jaguar V8 but is so far removed from it as to be, IMO, an AM-only engine. The AM V8 has its own unique block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, cams, valves, heads, etc. – it shares basically nothing with the Jaguar engine. That, to me, makes it an Aston Martin engine.
If they do the same with an AMG engine – truly develop it into a unique-to-AM engine – then that could be fantastic. But if they merely “tune” it, “tailor” it or some other marketing speak – like the “differences” between the Bentley and Audi V8, then no thanks. Different software, intakes/exhaust, maybe different cams – that’s not enough.
I have no problem with AM engines “owing their existence to” Ford. The current AM V12 is, as has been mentioned, used only by Aston Martin – it is a unique, dedicated AM engine. The V8 is “based” on the Jaguar V8 but is so far removed from it as to be, IMO, an AM-only engine. The AM V8 has its own unique block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, cams, valves, heads, etc. – it shares basically nothing with the Jaguar engine. That, to me, makes it an Aston Martin engine.
If they do the same with an AMG engine – truly develop it into a unique-to-AM engine – then that could be fantastic. But if they merely “tune” it, “tailor” it or some other marketing speak – like the “differences” between the Bentley and Audi V8, then no thanks. Different software, intakes/exhaust, maybe different cams – that’s not enough.
yeti said:
Putting a pair of AM wings on an SL series does not an Aston make, but I am pretty sure that Daimler-Benz know this
I hope your optimism is warranted, but… VW/Audi has no issue building Bentleys on VW platforms, using Audi engines in Bentleys, or making Audis from Lamborghinis. Fiat Group is going to build a “Maserati” that is a actually Jeep Grand Cherokee. As we know all too horrifyingly, U. Bez has no issue putting lipstick on a tiny Toyota and -- presto! -- "it's an Aston Martin." I’m not so optimistic.
Speedraser said:
The engine in the Pagani is built by AMG exclusively for Pagani (I don’t know just how different it is from other AMG V12s).
Yes and no. The engine in the Zonda is based on the 20 year old M120 Merc V12.The original Zonda C12 started off with pretty much the basic Merc engine, as found in the SL73. Obviously as the Zonda has evolved the engine has been tweaked and highly modified, but the base engine isn't custom for Pagani. It's only built now for Pagani as no one else has any use for it.
Something similar could happen for AM quite easily I suspect. They have 3 engines that could be used though - the 6 litre twin turbo V12, 6.2 N/A V8 and 5.5 twin turbo V8. All of those could be tweaked for AM I suspect.
MaverickV12 said:
Is anything in the Aston English ? Surely something must be made here .......
Please Please Please, can someone please tell me what on the Aston Martin current range is made, (actually MADE) in England - or even the UK for that matter, but really England.
The cars! You really need to visit the factory and see it. Yes engines are from the Ford / AM plant in Germany but cars are made in England.Please Please Please, can someone please tell me what on the Aston Martin current range is made, (actually MADE) in England - or even the UK for that matter, but really England.
If you visit the factory you can see the seats / leather interior being made - they have their own seamstresses on the factory floor. However, when I was there the woman we saw sewing the leather was English but of Indian decent, does that mean the seats are Indian? Leather for the interior comes from Bridge of Weir - unfortunately they are not English - they are Scottish
Could be worse they could be Welsh! 
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