New Vantage?

[hashluck]

roughrider said:

Well said.

+1

[ajr550]

Buster73 said:

Understand completely, but profit is the name of the game now , why do you think AP was brought in other than to change the whole company for the better .

Unfortunately it's the poor customer that will always make the vital contributions.

It is obvious to me that Aston have pored over the way Ferrari do options.Even down to the national flag being offered as a badge option.
Ferrari have this down to a fine art.
The most controversial aspect of the Ferrari strategy is minimum spend on options if you want an early car combined with dealer targets for average option spend but by and large customers know the rules and accept this.

[Dewi 1]

B4rnst4ble said:

15? Years ago when the vantage was launched and also the Db9 the car was design perfection and something I wanted and lusted for, in a similar way to the Ferrari 308 in the 80’s ! It’s looks alone were aspirational and something that stuck with me until I finally bought my first am in 2010. Design and change are a difficult thing. I suppose the great launch build up got me hooked and then to see an evolution of a db10 which I saw 3ish years ago was a bit of a damp squib .
Neither the db10-11 or vantage have floated my boat in the same way , the originals were beautiful, classical and traditional, but I suppose there is no modern car that is truely beautiful anymore ?
I must be getting old as I came home with a pair of trickers yesterday , and I have a strange lure to red cords! Perhaps I am no longer the target market, but if I bought an f car I would look a tt the aston didn’t make me look like this ........at a glance !!! , everybody loves the cars because they are not brash but a brute in a suit, not a chav in a track suit,
Pure design on most products has changed from something that would last and be sold for many year to a more throw away product across the board that changes and is reintroduced and evolved relatively quickly.
Just my 2peneth

Your comments are a good summary of this subject, but many followers of this forum would have anticipated the current debate.

1. The 2005 Vantage, which is recognised as a rare and exceptionally beautiful car design, obviously creates a very 'difficult act to follow'. I think that is the main issue.

2. It was revealed, that the DB10 design chosen by Mr Sam Mendes for his film, were initial drawings for the next Vantage. We therefore knew the likely theme for the design.

3. One of the Vantage designers was at the St. Athan event, and provided strong clues about the controversial front.

4. The pre-production periods of the two models had interesting and marked differences.
The new car was initially disguised during development, as a DB11 (forecast by an AML employee at the Burley event) and later with the black and yellow camouflage. Early viewers were sworn to keep everything secret.

The 2005 Vantage was shown publicly, in its almost finished design, 2 years in advance of production. That 'AMV8' car (think there were possibly two), was built in India on a DB7 chassis.
You may be interested in the story (below).

5. Many of the existing owners probably have fairly traditional leanings, particularly regarding the front appearance of our Aston Martin cars. However, not being happy about the front design, does not mean that this new car will not be a sales success. New Vantage owners might still be unable to resist looking back, as they walk away after parking.

---

January 2003.

DC Design Scores a First for India New Delhi, Delhi, India

The New Year could not have begun on a better note for India's ace car stylist Dilip Chhabria. It was a moment of pride for the entire country when a prototype of Aston Martin, the new AM V8 Vantage, built by Dilip Chhabria was unveiled last night, at the Detroit International Motor Show, currently being held in the US. 

The car was unveiled by Mark Fields, CEO of Premier Automotive Group and Ulrich Bez, CEO, Aston Martin. Premier Automotive Group is the company that oversees the premier brands owned by Ford Motor Company, including Aston Martin, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover.

This event was a culmination of Ford Motor Company's collaboration with Chhabria for a new Aston Martin, which is the best of breed car among all British automobile brands and is admired for its impeccable styling and thoroughbred performance. Chhabria has signed a contract with the company to develop a running prototype for one of its forthcoming models. 

This is the first time that an international car maker has utilised the services of an Indian design firm for prototype building.

Faced with the challenge of lending a new look to the car associated most readily with the legendary James Bond, while maintaining its classical appeal, Chhabria and his team of 40 technicians from DC Design, Chhabria's firm and India's leading automotive design house, delivered a sportier and tauter vehicle with short front and rear hangs. Made from sheet metal, the Aston is powered by an all-new V8 engine. The interiors of the Aston Martin have also been created by DC Design, with all vegetable hide interior and machined aluminium accents. 

"The hard work and relentless efforts put in by every member in the DC Design team to establish ourselves as a world class automotive design house have been vindicated today. This is the first time that an international auto major has awarded the assignment of building a prototype for one of its leading models to an Indian design house and this has increased our delight manifold. In addition to cost benefits, we have proved that India also offers capabilities that are at par with European design houses," said Dilip Chhabria. 

"Even as it was a challenge to work on the perfection that is Aston Martin, I personally found the assignment most fulfilling and I hope customers like the dazzling new look of the Bond car."

The new-look Aston Martin is expected to be globally launched in 2005. 

About DC Design

Dilip Chhabria, who holds a degree in transportation designing from the Art Center, Pasadena, USA, set up DC Design for providing design related services to the automotive industry. The company has successfully handled varied product designs from the 100cc Honda motorcycle to the topline E class Mercedes Benz, honing its skill sets across the spectrum with an extremely dynamic matrix of products and clients. DC Design's clients in India include Telco, M&M, Bajaj Tempo, Toyota and Ford. It is through this expertise that DC Design, led by Chhabria, has built up its competency.

 -----------------------------------------------

[anonymous-user]

SFO said:

the pics do the car no justice, videos are much better.

I have changed my mind completely since watching the videos .. the car is much more coherent, stylish and good looking on video. I love the short overhangs, and the fact that it is shorter than a 911.

should be fantastic to drive.

any one has price list with options?

Dealers have the options price lists now, you should be able to pick up a copy if you ask - I was given a copy yesterday. Some tweaks to make on my configuration and job's a good'un.

[Big E 118]

AdamV12V said:

I ticked all the Carbon Fibre exterior and interior options, plus a Q special paint and was told my likely spec would run to £175k

I know that's at the crazy end and there is no way I would spend that much in real life on a new V8V

A lot of the "is it or is it not worth" talk will really be down to the handling and driving experience I think. £175k for a V8 Vantage sounds expensive but IF the car is a class leader dynamically then £120-£175k for a 500+BHP superb handling (super)car doesn't sound so bad to me.

Looks wise I'll make my mind up when I see it in the flesh, I think it will be quite colour sensitive like the DB11.

Discussing with my son yesterday we came to the conclusion that the cars that age well are usually the simpler designs. The 911 falls into this category and I think the "old" V8/V12 Vantage does as well, not so sure that the new car will fare so well.

[BamfordMike]

Mr.Tremlini said:

it`s very easy to sit at your computer and slag things off (something I would never do...) but in the same way that so many were underwhelmed by the DB11 and now profess a love for the car, the new V8V will be the same and with the performance and handling that it will no doubt deliver, smiles will be guaranteed!

Considering Tesla? 0-100km/h in 1.9 seconds... Meh... If you are a really a Pistonhead, you`re all good, otherwise you need a new platform, Voltageheads maybe...

The Black DB11 on page 36 of Autocar is stunning, a shade more contemporary than DB9 yet classic and understated, the Vantage on page 8 seems almost like a car from a different car company, but that differentiation might well work out for them?

Clearly I’m a confirmed petrolhead, but, the stats of performance and range reported of the Tesla Roadster has completely blown me away, so much so that if I was still an ICE design and development engineer I would be left struggling how to better those numbers with petrol which complies with latest emissions regs - you can’t help be in awe of the game changing tech to come??!!
The inevitability of electrification falls at a very inconvenient time for the ‘second century’ plan meaning they really had better sell as many DB11 and Vantage as the production line can make between now and then, which relates to the styling and the inevitability of the loss of sales from waving bye-bye to the gentleman buyer types who the looks of this Vantage might not suit anymore. Nonetheless, I hope it works out but one can’t help being a bit dismayed and question the overall strategy - not even 12 months into DB11 V12 production car mags are reporting the V8 DB11 is the WAY better car and they make those comments aided by the factory’s own handling chief engineer, so whilst you won’t slag their product they manage to do that themselves which is very odd because who would buy a V12 DB11 now? And it’s a bit odd the raft of AMR and Q cars with albeit tarted up classic styling would arguably be the car of choice if side-by-side this new Vantage in the showroom? I didn’t expect the second century plan to have a single in the armour, it appears riddled to me and I’m amazed and dismayed, but that thought is a world away from slagging off.

[RL17]

New car is excellent. Not as beautiful maybe.

As much as old Vantage is loved and beautiful in V8 it missed its 911 target and although very successful in AM terms could have been better in V8 form (which I love anyway).

Not keen on new grill or indent in boot above AM script (which I also don't like) BUT if these points and other aero features are required for downforce and other performance factors then great.

Really love nre GTE version and this shows how good the tuck between lower doors and rear arches can look. Also when old Vantage launched V12s still permitted in LM GT racing so not developed with that in mind.

So hopefully the driven reviews and driving will be great as performance figures hint at. No longer a cheap entry AM but markets and times have moved on.

The yellow, sorry green lauch colour jumps out of mass on online news and is great for attention (another silver Aston just gets lost ever updated online info) - when matched with the GTE is makes great sense.

Hope its a great success with R, S and V12 versions to come.

[codieskid]

I've fixed the problem .



After spending a few hours looking at the high res press images and dissecting the design, I think fundamentally the car is very nice. I don't mind the back of the car at all and overall the shape is clean, taught and modern. But I just can't get past the headlamp design and the mesh grill. Mesh always looks cheap and the grill surround is just too pronounced for my liking. I think if they could have evolved the shape of the headlamps from the old Vantage and dumbed down the mesh grill or re-imagined the old cars grill strakes then I'd honestly be placing a deposit.

Trev

[ajr550]

codieskid said:

I've fixed the problem .



After spending a few hours looking at the high res press images and dissecting the design, I think fundamentally the car is very nice. I don't mind the back of the car at all and overall the shape is clean, taught and modern. But I just can't get past the headlamp design and the mesh grill. Mesh always looks cheap and the grill surround is just too pronounced for my liking. I think if they could have evolved the shape of the headlamps from the old Vantage and dumbed down the mesh grill or re-imagined the old cars grill strakes then I'd honestly be placing a deposit.

Trev

Nice work.Could you put a UK number plate on both?I cannot find figures but I am pretty sure the majority of new Astons are still sold in UK.

[jonby]

Chris Stott said:

jonby said:

Chris Stott said:

AdamV12V said:

I ticked all the Carbon Fibre exterior and interior options, plus a Q special paint and was told my likely spec would run to £175k

Feck!!

That's only £7k below the list on my mates V12 DB11 - which was pretty highly specced (£15k of extras inc. Q paint).

I'm not having a go at you, because I think you're in the majority and I'm in the minority, but to me there is no reason why a similarly specced vantage should be substantially different in price to a DB11 with the same engine

The only difference in the interiors are some basic rear seats. Body, transmission, engine, brakes, wheels, etc are all by & large the same. So why should there be more than c 10% price difference on like for like specced cars ?

As for the comparison above, a vantage with over £50k of extras is having an awful lot of boxes ticked whereas respectfully, a DB11 with just £15k of extras including Q paint is in relative terms, not what most would call 'highly specced' - I suspect the average extras bill for Astons these days most be over £20k

Hmmmm... by that reasoning, Porsche could have charged the same for a Cayman as a 911 when they both had 6cyl NA engines.

Other than a few bits in carbon (instead of gloss black), there's not much you can spec on a DB11 beyond this...



Edit... clearly I'm st at maths... £22k of extras, not £15k!

Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 22 November 17:27

I appreciate it's semantics, but actually I think this list proves the point. CF and Q are appearing on a larger number of cars and tend to be where the real big bucks are spent. This car has neither, nor does it have the B&O audio which is over £5k, plus some of the fancier interior leather options. I'm not saying this is a poorly specced car, but I suspect my guess of £20k over base price being typical on a current Aston is not far out. To put it into perspective, many of the AMR cars, even without the amr wheels, Ti exhaust & bodykit (which can add 35k if all taken up) are having well over 30k spent on extras if some Q is involved

The latest financial results bear this out (higher average price per car) and it's been a calculated move in this direction. AP has pushed this route on extras hard since day 1

I agree some of the options prices are outrageous, but they are here to stay

[dbs2000]

Here's my very bad attempt at the GT CF. I may come back to it to smooth the bottom joins out. Personally I like the classic grill option PS'd above

Edited by dbs2000 on Thursday 23 November 12:56

[Buster73]

BamfordMike said:

The Black DB11 on page 36 of Autocar is stunning, a shade more contemporary than DB9 yet classic and understated, the Vantage on page 8 seems almost like a car from a different car company, but that differentiation might well work out for them?

Clearly I’m a confirmed petrolhead, but, the stats of performance and range reported of the Tesla Roadster has completely blown me away, so much so that if I was still an ICE design and development engineer I would be left struggling how to better those numbers with petrol which complies with latest emissions regs - you can’t help be in awe of the game changing tech to come??!!
The inevitability of electrification falls at a very inconvenient time for the ‘second century’ plan meaning they really had better sell as many DB11 and Vantage as the production line can make between now and then, which relates to the styling and the inevitability of the loss of sales from waving bye-bye to the gentleman buyer types who the looks of this Vantage might not suit anymore. Nonetheless, I hope it works out but one can’t help being a bit dismayed and question the overall strategy - not even 12 months into DB11 V12 production car mags are reporting the V8 DB11 is the WAY better car and they make those comments aided by the factory’s own handling chief engineer, so whilst you won’t slag their product they manage to do that themselves which is very odd because who would buy a V12 DB11 now? And it’s a bit odd the raft of AMR and Q cars with albeit tarted up classic styling would arguably be the car of choice if side-by-side this new Vantage in the showroom? I didn’t expect the second century plan to have a single in the armour, it appears riddled to me and I’m amazed and dismayed, but that thought is a world away from slagging off.

Confirmed by finance support on DB 11 being offered recently ? , saying that I'm not aware if it's to support the V12 or both models.

[Jon39]

ajr550 said:

I cannot find figures, but I am pretty sure the majority of new Astons are still sold in UK.

2016
UK Registrations = 906
Total production = 3687 worldwide.

I resurrect this topic from time to time https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...

[codieskid]

A few more colours and even more traditional grill with vertical slats





Trev

[SFO]

dbs2000 said:

Here's my very bad attempt at the GT CF. I may come back to it to smooth the bottom joins out. Personally I like the classic grill option PS'd above

Edited by dbs2000 on Thursday 23 November 12:56

breaks up that huge mouth nicely

[ajr550]

Jon39 said:

ajr550 said:

I cannot find figures, but I am pretty sure the majority of new Astons are still sold in UK.

2016
UK Registrations = 906
Total production = 3687 worldwide.

I resurrect this topic from time to time https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...

Thanks.That is me told
I'll have a look.

[66MK]

codieskid said:

A few more colours and even more traditional grill with vertical slats





Trev

Very nice indeed.

Maybe raise the grill up a bit and change the side vents for strakes and....;)

[mattf93]

Beefmeister said:

Seems like my photoshop is getting a lot of attention, I’ve seen it posted all over the internet in the last 24hrs!

Greatest form of flattery Beef - a few car journos shared my tweet after I sent them that, I love the bold new design.
Yes it would look nicer with part of the old grill design but thats really not what its about.

Seems to have a fair heap of criticism not having a dual clutch gearbox (like the GTS has)

[AMDBSVNick]

mattf93 said:

Greatest form of flattery Beef - a few car journos shared my tweet after I sent them that, I love the bold new design.
Yes it would look nicer with part of the old grill design but thats really not what its about.

Seems to have a fair heap of criticism not having a dual clutch gearbox (like the GTS has)

According to Peter Quintus, Vice President for Sales and Marketing at BMW M, who recently spoke with Drive, the dual-clutch transmission could be gone within a couple of years. We all know manuals are slowly dying, with the next-gen M3/M4 possibly not coming with a manual. However, the dual-clutch death would be surprising, as it’s been considered the enthusiast’s choice if a manual wasn’t available. However, the benefits of dual-clutch transmissions have become virtual non-existent with the advancement of standard automatics.

Typically, dual-clutch autos were lighter and shifted far faster than the standard torque converter auto but that just isn’t the case anymore. Modern automatics, especially the famous ZF eight-speed, can shift every bit as fast as dual-clutch autos and, in the case of the ZF, actually even lighter. Plus, it’s far cheaper to use a torque-converter auto and let’s not think that cost doesn’t factor in.

Another reason is power. Manual transmissions and dual-clutch autos have difficulty handling extremely torquey engines which, with turbochargers taking over, are becoming more and more common. According to Quintus, BMW M can develop manual transmissions to handle the torque but the extra strengthening makes them heavier than an automatic and the shift quality becomes quite poor. So it actually ends up doing more harm than good.

[blade runner]

66MK said:

codieskid said:

A few more colours and even more traditional grill with vertical slats





Trev

Very nice indeed.

Maybe raise the grill up a bit and change the side vents for strakes and....;)

But then we're pretty much left with a DB10 again!

I assume AM felt obliged to make some fairly bold styling changes to differentiate the two cars, but I can't help wondering if the new Vantage looks better in the parallel universe where Sam Mendes never got to see those sketches at AM headquarters...

Edited by blade runner on Thursday 23 November 16:28